The England Thread

beats1

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He's not even close to International quality
I was see this comment and it pretty much sums up why england are shit

There is no such thing as international quality and all the bollocks that people use

England are getting out classed by teams like costa rica, how many of their players are "international quality"

England have for the past 15 years been big players who can play in a team

Maybe some players like Livermore are need to suit their given role rather than shoehorning someone like henderson in

IMO i dont mind livermore there but he is a waste next to Dier, neither player is a good all round CM
 

Cornpattbuck

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I know we are a limited team nowadays but our midfield is awful. Nobody in there can pass. The team doesn't thread together well. It's why Winks is going to get in the starting XI. I absolutely hate to say it but if wilshere stays fit for the season (he won't) then Southgate should try them both in central midfield with Dier in the next friendlies. If not that twat then at least Dele would offer more in there.
We're looking for that playmaking partner for Dier and it could be Winks, RLC, Wilshere (if he wasn't a glass ****) etc. Fuck Henderson.
 
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Because he was good enough. Why do you think he was preferred to other youth prospects? Did they have some sort of Dele bias when he was 16?
He wasn't the Alli he is now at 16yo. And if he'd been at a top 6 PL club at that age, he'd not be the that Alli now either. That's the point.
 

Trix

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I was see this comment and it pretty much sums up why england are shit

There is no such thing as international quality and all the bollocks that people use

England are getting out classed by teams like costa rica, how many of their players are "international quality"

England have for the past 15 years been big players who can play in a team

Maybe some players like Livermore are need to suit their given role rather than shoehorning someone like henderson in

IMO i dont mind livermore there but he is a waste next to Dier, neither player is a good all round CM

Ok I put it another way.... He is shit compared to the other options we have for CM)including Henderson). We were quite poor yesterday and Livermore still managed to stand out as the weakest link.
 

Spurrific

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He wasn't the Alli he is now at 16yo. And if he'd been at a top 6 PL club at that age, he'd not be the that Alli now either. That's the point.
Do you think he was the only 16 year old at MK Dons? He got those games because he was vastly superior to everybody else there, especially those in his age group. Same as Rooney at Everton, etc.

The point I’m arguing against is it being “probably true” that Loftus-Cheek is as good as Dele
 

Shadydan

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Do you think he was the only 16 year old at MK Dons? He got those games because he was vastly superior to everybody else there, especially those in his age group. Same as Rooney at Everton, etc.

The point I’m arguing against is it being “probably true” that Loftus-Cheek is as good as Dele
Ray Wilkins was talking about his ability, what he actually said was this:

“I honestly do believe that had he played as many games as Dele Alli, who has played over 200 now and he’s only 21, Loftus-Cheek had the ability to be as good as Alli.”
The point is that if Alli had been signed by Chelsea we wouldn't be seeing him flourish now at the same time if we (Poch) had RLC it's entirely possible that he'd be doing similar to what Alli is doing albeit playing in a different role, the difference between the one player was given the chance and gained experience whilst the other stagnated and held back due to the culture of the team he was playing for.

And the point you make about Chelsea's players not being good enough is just utter nonsense, they've won 7 out of the last 9 FA youth cups, they have a ridiculous amount of talent on their books but they're not given the chance because Chelsea have no interest in nurturing talent.
 

nailsy

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Did anyone else get wound up by Giggs and co going on about Wilshere at the end of the match? We've just had two matches with young players emerging -three if you include Winks debut in the previous match - but as soon as the final whistle blows they're straight back to talking about the permacrock who hardly ever plays for his club side.
 
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Did anyone else get wound up by Giggs and co going on about Wilshere at the end of the match? We've just had two matches with young players emerging -three if you include Winks debut in the previous match - but as soon as the final whistle blows they're straight back to talking about the permacrock who hardly ever plays for his club side.
I’d rather have seen Wilshere play than Livermore.
 

Riandor

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I really hope Southgate keeps going with this, it’s been so bad with tournaments, just let the youngsters play, get experience and let them show us what we can do.

Makes you wonder why in this country these kids cannot get a game.

Makes you realise just how important Poch is to the England game really.
As and when Poch hangs up his THFC boots, then Poch for England please.
 

DJS

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Gomez came in and did quite well, was hoping he’d be good as Liverpool mates have said he’s impressed for them.
 
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Do you think he was the only 16 year old at MK Dons? He got those games because he was vastly superior to everybody else there, especially those in his age group. Same as Rooney at Everton, etc.

The point I’m arguing against is it being “probably true” that Loftus-Cheek is as good as Dele
Do you not think there are plenty of other prodigious talented 16yo’s - some of whom at 16 look even more talented than Alli did at that age, but for various reasons (their physique, their height, the club they are at etc) they don’t get the same opportunities to develop their game.

Even when we bought Alli he wasn’t the hottest kid around. His price tag was 5 mil and we were the only club to bite at that price.

Mbappe went for 40 times that. If we’d have sold Markus Edwards the same time I reckon we’d have got the same and he hadn’t kicked a first team ball. We got three times that for Bentaleb.

There are loads of 16yo’s that are showing more promise of greatness than Alli did at that age. Being 6ft tall and at a League 1/2 club probably made a huge difference.

Between the two boxes, Wilkins is possibly right, LC is possibly as good as Alli, maybe better, but Alli’s definitely better in and around the box.

And there are other players I’ve seen who have yet to get chances who I think have potential to be as good or better than Alli in their various roles and positions, and if they got to play every week for 80-100 games they’d hopefully prove it. But they won’t and that’s the difference between them and Alli.
 

Mullers

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I was very impressed with the way Brazil pressured England every time they didn't have the ball. It was men against boys really the same as it usually is in Brazil vs England matches.
 

Shadydan

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I was very impressed with the way Brazil pressured England every time they didn't have the ball. It was men against boys really the same as it usually is in Brazil vs England matches.
Doesn't help when half the team is out injured I suppose.
 

Shadydan

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True but I don't think the pattern of the game would have been much different, England have always had a problem keeping possession of the ball.
Yeah true, although I think having Lallana, Winks, Dele, Kane and Sterling back would have helped a lot.
 

davidmatzdorf

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True but I don't think the pattern of the game would have been much different, England have always had a problem keeping possession of the ball.
Yeah true, although I think having Lallana, Winks, Dele, Kane and Sterling back would have helped a lot.
It's a bit more complicated than that, I think. One of the major reasons why Southgate wanted these friendlies is that England have had virtually no problem keeping the ball for the past 2 years, throughout the qualifying rounds, because of the standard of the opposition. Southgate is the first England manager who has taken a concerted approach to the night-and-day difference between England's domination of weaker sides and our inability to play under pressure and against sides with a high technical standard.

From what he said in the run-up, the whole point of this weekend's exercise was to find ways to play securely against sides that do not let us dominate the ball.
 

John48

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A lot of people have ago at friendlies, but these 2 showed what you can get play out of them.

1 - 3 at the back seemed to work & gave us a pretty good defensive base & something which needs work, but could prove the way to go at the WC.

2 - A few players showed they can play at this level & not look out of place, namely Maguire, Gomez, Pickford & Loftus-Cheek.

3 - Up front we missed Kane & Dele & I also think we missed Winks in mid-field.

All in all I think Southgate will be quite happy with how the 2 games went & what he can carry forward into next year.
 

nailsy

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I’d rather have seen Wilshere play than Livermore.
I felt sorry for you last night. A team that includes both Livermore and Walker must be your worst nightmare.

Just for the record I'm not totally against Wilshere being included, but he would have to prove his fitness for half a season before I'd even look at him. We took him to the Euros half fit and it really cost us and yet half of the football experts you listen to are ready to make exactly the same mistake again.
 
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