The England Thread

Syn_13

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We were pretty terrible. Here's what I wrote in the other thread last night:

BBC seemed to be blinded by us looking dangerous on about 4 or 5 occasions and then Italy just dropping off and seeing out their lead, but lets talk about...

- Closing down the opposition. This was absolute dog shit from us. I don't care what the conditions were like, you cannot just give a team that much time and space to stroll up the pitch and decide what they want to do with it. Sterling, for all he has been raved about tonight it seems, led the way in this total lack of getting in and about their deep midfielders. Rooney and Sturridge were also pretty abysmal in their efforts. Welbeck hit and miss, but tried a bit more to put some pressure on. You cannot let them stroll up the pitch at walking space, leaving 4 men ahead of the ball, and drag our centre mids out repeatedly because it leaves space in front of the defence. I don't think Henderson and Gerrard had good games, but they didn't get much help from those in front of them. Likewise with Baines. Was far, far too easy to play through us.

- 1st goal. How fucking basic was that? Didn't even get enough markers out to the Italian players hovering on the edge of the box. At what age do you get taught to pick up every man at corners... 6 years old? We deserved to concede for such amateurish stupidity. Another case where I have to ask what exactly we are doing during the week and on the training pitch and tactical team meetings.

- Tactically schooled. Outnumbered in the centre of the pitch yet Italy still found ways to target us down one flank through clever positioning and movement. We never looked like getting to grips with it. Combine this with piss poor pressing and it really was too easy.

- Fitness. I only saw one team with people getting cramp...

This wasn't a good performance. We had a few lively moments, mostly down to individual skill. As a team we were all over the place and sorely lacking in most departments, especially when we didn't have the ball.
In my opinion, Gerrard and Henderson lost you the game. The talk before the game was about closing down Pirlo, cutting off our support. He got the most passes last night and had the time to do his stuff, which is a cardinal sin when you play Italy. It's like not bothering to mark Iniesta for Spain. Prandelli said he put Verratti in because of the threat of England shutting out Pirlo, but in the second half he took Verratti off because he didn't need him since Gerrard/Henderson weren't bothering to do that. Gerrard isn't defensively good enough and he's trying to play a Pirlo role without actually having the technical ability to do so. Henderson doesn't have the discipline to defend either, just plays a box-to-box role and risks ending up looking like a headless chicken never truly getting involved in the game. England don't have a Pirlo type, but I think out of the centre mids Wilshere is the best at keeping the ball moving and linking up play. He's not a good tackler but he's an annoying fucker who will hound a player if given the instruction to do so. Even Milner could've done a better job at getting in our midfielder's faces. Milner and Wilshere would've been a better fit for that game than Henderson and Gerrard, IMO.

I think it's unfair to put slack on the English defenders as Baines didn't get any real cover from Rooney or Welbeck (once they swapped sides). Cahill and Jagielka, for the most part, did well enough to keep Balotelli occupied. The goals came from a set piece and the flank where we were doubling up in attack with Candreva and Darmian, who both played well. You could argue that a more defensive full back like Cole would've done better, but the fact still remains that we were clearly set up to attack down that side and Hodgson didn't do anything about it. As I said before the game in attack we'd end up being a 3-6-1 with Darmian going forward. On the left Chiellini wouldn't get as far forward and Marchisio would tuck inside, whereas on the right Candreva and Darmian caused problems.

Hodgson made a few tactical errors last night. I think his faith in Gerrard and Rooney, the old guard, is misplaced. He set up with virtually 4 forwards to play an aggressive counter attacking game. Sterling and Sturridge were very good and caused us problems. Welbeck and Rooney were same old, the former disappearing for spells and the latter showing a lot of energy but not enough brain. It's a shame for England that The Ox was injured as he would've been a better shout than Welbeck. Regardless, Hodgson still left his defence with very little cover. When using such attacking players you need to rely on the centre mids to get stuck in, win the ball, release it for the counter, and then hold things at the back for you, particularly when your wingers have gone forward. Italy kept 3 at the back and De Rossi was always there to provide cover as he usually does.

It was a lot more promising from England, and I think they did miles better than 2 years ago, but they still need to grow a little tactically. They've got the raw talent and energy, just need a little bit more in the brains department.
 

L-man

Misplaced pass from Dier
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Can sympathise with the players because of the sheer heat over here. But don't think we did too badly and deserved a point, although after the second goal I knew we wouldn't get anything out of it

Difficult to get any sort of atmosphere going here as well. Everything was drowned out by whistling, the locals really didn't seem to like us at all

image.jpg
 

Syn_13

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Can sympathise with the players because of the sheer heat over here. But don't think we did too badly and deserved a point, although after the second goal I knew we wouldn't get anything out of it

Difficult to get any sort of atmosphere going here as well. Everything was drowned out by whistling, the locals really didn't seem to like us at all

View attachment 12156
How was Manaus? What's it like as a place?

I couldn't really tell what support was like when watching. Seemed like a lot of "neutral" fans to me in the stadium. I heard a few "Italia" chants, especially at kick off, but couldn't tell how big the support was from either side.
 

WiganSpur

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We're going to regret not taking Barry over Lampard. He's the only midfielder we have who can tackle.

Should have been Barry starting every game as the anchor with energy in front of him.
 

Blake Griffin

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I went to bed instead of watching the game (I actually fell asleep before the Uruguay game kicked off!), but having seen Balotelli's goal, I really still don't understand why Welbeck is selected. Our flanks are currently a major weakness because they don't help the defenders. We mirror Brazil in that aspect!
I hope a few people had a go at Welbeck in the dressing room for just dawdling instead of closing down.
if you'd watched the game you'd have seen that welbeck worked tirelessly off the ball and was one of our best players in the first half, he had to switch over to the left because rooney who originally started there was getting overrun. as for the goal, i'm watching it now and the player who crosses for the goal is a good 20 yards ahead of welbeck when he receives it, he'd have done well to make that space up in a couple of seconds, it's baines who should've done better to stop the cross.
 

L-man

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How was Manaus? What's it like as a place?

I couldn't really tell what support was like when watching. Seemed like a lot of "neutral" fans to me in the stadium. I heard a few "Italia" chants, especially at kick off, but couldn't tell how big the support was from either side.
Manaus is great, the descent into the city is incredible. Just hundreds of miles of the Amazon and then this city just appears. We're here until Tuesday so hopefully gunna get onto an Amazon day trip on Monday

It's a really busy city which surprised me, it seems to be gridlocked most of the day. We got an open top bus to the ground yesterday which took well over an hour for a 15 minute drive. We've been to the bars and stuff of an evening and they're all pretty lively, lots of live music which seems to get everyone going. The locals are really friendly and helpful so really enjoyed my time here

The heat and humidity is almost unbearable. I've never experienced anything like it. 31 degrees yesterday morning, we walked to the ground at about 10am just to see how far it was and was just dripping with sweat by the time we got there

All in all it's a great city, I'll see more of it today as I'm in a different hotel which is closer to the downtown area

I've tried to attach some more pictures but the wifi is awful in this hotel and won't load them. Hopefully I can get some more of the city up later today
 

JAYSTAR

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Aug 25, 2012
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2,993
Team vs Uraguay and from now on hopefully:

Hart

Johnson Cahill Jagielka Baines

Wilshere Gerrard

Sterling Rooney Lallana

Sturridge
Henderson is just not good enough positionally and Lallana brings creativity and a willingness to track back. Barclay needs to come on at 60 minutes for me rather than playing 90 and Wellbeck to replace a tiring sturridge or Rooney. Sterling and sturridge are our best threat and Rooney needs to be central to be on the end of crosses etc.
 

mpickard2087

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In my opinion, Gerrard and Henderson lost you the game. The talk before the game was about closing down Pirlo, cutting off our support. He got the most passes last night and had the time to do his stuff, which is a cardinal sin when you play Italy. It's like not bothering to mark Iniesta for Spain. Prandelli said he put Verratti in because of the threat of England shutting out Pirlo, but in the second half he took Verratti off because he didn't need him since Gerrard/Henderson weren't bothering to do that. Gerrard isn't defensively good enough and he's trying to play a Pirlo role without actually having the technical ability to do so. Henderson doesn't have the discipline to defend either, just plays a box-to-box role and risks ending up looking like a headless chicken never truly getting involved in the game. England don't have a Pirlo type, but I think out of the centre mids Wilshere is the best at keeping the ball moving and linking up play. He's not a good tackler but he's an annoying fucker who will hound a player if given the instruction to do so. Even Milner could've done a better job at getting in our midfielder's faces. Milner and Wilshere would've been a better fit for that game than Henderson and Gerrard, IMO.

I think it's unfair to put slack on the English defenders as Baines didn't get any real cover from Rooney or Welbeck (once they swapped sides). Cahill and Jagielka, for the most part, did well enough to keep Balotelli occupied. The goals came from a set piece and the flank where we were doubling up in attack with Candreva and Darmian, who both played well. You could argue that a more defensive full back like Cole would've done better, but the fact still remains that we were clearly set up to attack down that side and Hodgson didn't do anything about it. As I said before the game in attack we'd end up being a 3-6-1 with Darmian going forward. On the left Chiellini wouldn't get as far forward and Marchisio would tuck inside, whereas on the right Candreva and Darmian caused problems.

Hodgson made a few tactical errors last night. I think his faith in Gerrard and Rooney, the old guard, is misplaced. He set up with virtually 4 forwards to play an aggressive counter attacking game. Sterling and Sturridge were very good and caused us problems. Welbeck and Rooney were same old, the former disappearing for spells and the latter showing a lot of energy but not enough brain. It's a shame for England that The Ox was injured as he would've been a better shout than Welbeck. Regardless, Hodgson still left his defence with very little cover. When using such attacking players you need to rely on the centre mids to get stuck in, win the ball, release it for the counter, and then hold things at the back for you, particularly when your wingers have gone forward. Italy kept 3 at the back and De Rossi was always there to provide cover as he usually does.

It was a lot more promising from England, and I think they did miles better than 2 years ago, but they still need to grow a little tactically. They've got the raw talent and energy, just need a little bit more in the brains department.
Yes I don't neccesarily disagree with your views on the personnel but as I said, for me the real blame lay with the 'front four' (although Welbeck was the best at closing down, he too was guilty on occasion of being lazy). Everyone is jizzing over Sterling but for me he led the way in the absolute woeful workrate off the ball. I'd probably go as far to say as it is possibly the worst work off the ball that I have ever seen in a football match, considering the importance of that position in terms of who he was up against. Sturridge and Rooney were as bad as well. On about a 1000 occasions Pirlo et al picked the ball up deep, literally advanced forward at walking pace, and our front four just allowed them to end up going past that line of defence and into a position where it gave our centre mids the dilemma of coming out to meet them or not. They were totally outnumbered.

I agree with the tactics, as I said we had no answers to their shape. Hodgson got absolutely schooled. This was compounded though by woeful closing down and giving Italy far too much time on the ball. The tactical advantage was therefore rammed home with ease.

Honestly as a team performance, that one from England last night was one of the worst I have ever seen when it comes to organisation, discipline and tactical nous. No joke. However most of the fans/media seem to be happy that a few individuals went on a few mazy dribbles and we had a few dangerous moments. It simply doesn't balance out the amount of shit that we saw when we didn't have the ball. We can get at teams, but other teams can get at us if we give them an armchair ride.
 

mpickard2087

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TheHoddleWaddle

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We were pretty terrible. Here's what I wrote in the other thread last night:

BBC seemed to be blinded by us looking dangerous on about 4 or 5 occasions and then Italy just dropping off and seeing out their lead, but lets talk about...

- Closing down the opposition. This was absolute dog shit from us. I don't care what the conditions were like, you cannot just give a team that much time and space to stroll up the pitch and decide what they want to do with it. Sterling, for all he has been raved about tonight it seems, led the way in this total lack of getting in and about their deep midfielders. Rooney and Sturridge were also pretty abysmal in their efforts. Welbeck hit and miss, but tried a bit more to put some pressure on. You cannot let them stroll up the pitch at walking space, leaving 4 men ahead of the ball, and drag our centre mids out repeatedly because it leaves space in front of the defence. I don't think Henderson and Gerrard had good games, but they didn't get much help from those in front of them. Likewise with Baines. Was far, far too easy to play through us.

- 1st goal. How fucking basic was that? Didn't even get enough markers out to the Italian players hovering on the edge of the box. At what age do you get taught to pick up every man at corners... 6 years old? We deserved to concede for such amateurish stupidity. Another case where I have to ask what exactly we are doing during the week and on the training pitch and tactical team meetings.

- Tactically schooled. Outnumbered in the centre of the pitch yet Italy still found ways to target us down one flank through clever positioning and movement. We never looked like getting to grips with it. Combine this with piss poor pressing and it really was too easy.

- Fitness. I only saw one team with people getting cramp...

This wasn't a good performance. We had a few lively moments, mostly down to individual skill. As a team we were all over the place and sorely lacking in most departments, especially when we didn't have the ball.
Hardly anything worth adding to this summary, which is spot on. Just adding my take.

I'm no football tactician, but seriously, giving Italy that much time on the ball was just plain stupidity. Pirlo, probably one of the best ball players on the planet, had more time than Bronson's served in midfield. I mean really? There was no closing down at all. He was literally strolling at some points wondering what his best option was. I know it was hot, stifling even, but this was the main reason we were so inept. They should have been on the Italians as soon as the ball was at or on the way to their feet.

The italians played such a composed and organised game. For all our huff, puff and pace aplenty, there was no apparent game plan other than to run at them and try to get a cross in. They sat back, absorbed the attacks as they are inclined to do, then proceeded to play around us. I was so excited before the game (I know I know), but I have to say, the national game does not appear to have evolved. Rooney on the left was nothing short of a disaster, and swapping him to the right didn't change a thing. I hope that's the last we see of that particular effort at a set up.
 

tototoner

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Manaus is great, the descent into the city is incredible. Just hundreds of miles of the Amazon and then this city just appears. We're here until Tuesday so hopefully gunna get onto an Amazon day trip on Monday

It's a really busy city which surprised me, it seems to be gridlocked most of the day. We got an open top bus to the ground yesterday which took well over an hour for a 15 minute drive. We've been to the bars and stuff of an evening and they're all pretty lively, lots of live music which seems to get everyone going. The locals are really friendly and helpful so really enjoyed my time here

The heat and humidity is almost unbearable. I've never experienced anything like it. 31 degrees yesterday morning, we walked to the ground at about 10am just to see how far it was and was just dripping with sweat by the time we got there

All in all it's a great city, I'll see more of it today as I'm in a different hotel which is closer to the downtown area

I've tried to attach some more pictures but the wifi is awful in this hotel and won't load them. Hopefully I can get some more of the city up later today
Did you go to Brasil for the World Cup or are you based there?
 

TheHoddleWaddle

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I'm here for the WC, have England tickets up until the 1/4 final but coming home after the second round game on the 30th
That's superb. Whats the stadium like in person? Have you noticed much obvious discontent amongst local people or the opposite?

Hope you enjoy the rest of your time there.
 

OiOiDrUnkYiD2

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Funny how every game so far has been so exciting and ours was pretty flat and boring for most of the game, can't see us getting out the group I've said it all along.
 

tototoner

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I'm here for the WC, have England tickets up until the 1/4 final but coming home after the second round game on the 30th
Fantastic, never followed Ireland in a major tournament but we don't quality for many

I did live in Holland when WC2006 was in Germany though and did a few day trips with Dutch fans, was superb
 

L-man

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That's superb. Whats the stadium like in person? Have you noticed much obvious discontent amongst local people or the opposite?

Hope you enjoy the rest of your time there.
Thanks mate, it's been great so far and still so much more to do!

Stadium was really nice. Theres loads of stalls and stands to keep you occupied, before the game they had a big budweiser tent showing the Costa Rica game. Beer is reasonably priced at the ground with Brazillian bear Brahma costing 10 Brazillian Reals which is around £3 and you also get a Brahma branded cup to keep, same with Budweiser which is 13 Reals. Outside the stadium there isn't much there except they turned a couple of petrol stations into beer stands.

I haven't experienced any discontent at all which is why I was a bit shocked when Brazillians were so in favour of Italy last night although understand it considering Woys comments. They've all been extremely helpful wherever I've been, Airports, Restaurants, Bars, shops etc. Was also in Sao Paulo on Thursday, and again despite hearing of the riots and unhappiness of Brazillians I've seen nothing of the sort and everyone seemed so excited for the game.

Some more pictures of Manaus and Thursdays fanfest if anyone's interested. I'm in a different hotel but still getting problems with wifi so it won't let me upload any, I got lucky with these few. (Spoilered as I know pictures from iphone can be pretty big)

IMG_3505.JPG


IMG_3519.JPG


IMG_3539.JPG
IMG_3623.JPG
 

TheHoddleWaddle

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Thanks mate, it's been great so far and still so much more to do!

Stadium was really nice. Theres loads of stalls and stands to keep you occupied, before the game they had a big budweiser tent showing the Costa Rica game. Beer is reasonably priced at the ground with Brazillian bear Brahma costing 10 Brazillian Reals which is around £3 and you also get a Brahma branded cup to keep, same with Budweiser which is 13 Reals. Outside the stadium there isn't much there except they turned a couple of petrol stations into beer stands.

I haven't experienced any discontent at all which is why I was a bit shocked when Brazillians were so in favour of Italy last night although understand it considering Woys comments. They've all been extremely helpful wherever I've been, Airports, Restaurants, Bars, shops etc. Was also in Sao Paulo on Thursday, and again despite hearing of the riots and unhappiness of Brazillians I've seen nothing of the sort and everyone seemed so excited for the game.

Some more pictures of Manaus and Thursdays fanfest if anyone's interested. I'm in a different hotel but still getting problems with wifi so it won't let me upload any, I got lucky with these few. (Spoilered as I know pictures from iphone can be pretty big)

Well, I think I am probably not the only one reading your posts with envy. Keep the updates coming, it's fantastic hearing from someone experiencing it all. Sounds and looks like the hosts are doing a stand up job.
 
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