The fans should force Enic to sack levy.

Kendall

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
38,502
#61
I think Levy made a good decision not attending the conference.

yesterday was about Ramos, not the board
 

muffwah

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
508
#62
Yeah, thank fuck the only thing they do is shell out hundreds of pounds a year for the club. Thank fuck!

Don't we all. And I presume they used to do this when we were languishing and the likes of Bunjevcevic and Toda were turning out for us so I would think it requires some perspective.

The club has come a long way but in the end the manager was not making us into as good a team as we a) should be and b) want to be so I think he should have gone, sooner than he did as well. He failed every single test that came his way pretty much, we were going backwards for over a year and every promising youngster we brought it stalled while at the club.

Robinson
Chimbonda
Dawson (most recently at least)
Lennon
Routledge
Malbranque
Defoe
Bent

These players have all regressed under Jol because the coaching staff didn't do their jobs very well, why the hell would you hold it against the chairman to sack them?

He will invest further in the team, will get us a new ground, his interest is our interest.....to build the club up in every positive way. He is doing it for share price to sell obviously, but the end outcome is the same.
 

ethanedwards

Snowflake incarnate.
Joined
Nov 24, 2006
Messages
2,753
#63
Don't we all. And I presume they used to do this when we were languishing and the likes of Bunjevcevic and Toda were turning out for us so I would think it requires some perspective.

The club has come a long way but in the end the manager was not making us into as good a team as we a) should be and b) want to be so I think he should have gone, sooner than he did as well. He failed every single test that came his way pretty much, we were going backwards for over a year and every promising youngster we brought it stalled while at the club.

Robinson
Chimbonda
Dawson (most recently at least)
Lennon
Routledge
Malbranque
Defoe
Bent

These players have all regressed under Jol because the coaching staff didn't do their jobs very well, why the hell would you hold it against the chairman to sack them?

He will invest further in the team, will get us a new ground, his interest is our interest.....to build the club up in every positive way. He is doing it for share price to sell obviously, but the end outcome is the same.
Great post,great avatar. Levy's only mistake he didn't sack Jol. etc. earlier. Remember Arsenal got rid of Rioch when he was doing OK, and brought in a certain French coach
 
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
645
#65
Don't we all. And I presume they used to do this when we were languishing and the likes of Bunjevcevic and Toda were turning out for us so I would think it requires some perspective.

The club has come a long way but in the end the manager was not making us into as good a team as we a) should be and b) want to be so I think he should have gone, sooner than he did as well. He failed every single test that came his way pretty much, we were going backwards for over a year and every promising youngster we brought it stalled while at the club.

Robinson
Chimbonda
Dawson (most recently at least)
Lennon
Routledge
Malbranque
Defoe
Bent

These players have all regressed under Jol because the coaching staff didn't do their jobs very well, why the hell would you hold it against the chairman to sack them?

He will invest further in the team, will get us a new ground, his interest is our interest.....to build the club up in every positive way. He is doing it for share price to sell obviously, but the end outcome is the same.
It is clear that Lennon is a much better player than he was when he arrived, (though his progress has been very erratic) if only because he could only last for a quarter of an hour when he arrived, and I suspect that as he regains full match fitness, which is not quite there yet, he will impress again.. Routledge hasn't progressed, but a large amount of his Tottenham career has been spent at other clubs, so our coaching methods can't be blamed too much for his lack of progress. Robinson improved and then went backwards. Chimbonda doesn't need coaching he needs focus, and that's down to him alone. Malbranque has never been played in his best position, but has fulfilled a need for the team, and is now better at it in my view than when he arrived. Bent has hardly appeared, so blaming coaching for his lack of confidence is unfair. Dawson made massive early strides but has gone backwards, and I feel a lack of Ledley is a significant factor with him. So much for those who saw him as captaincy material. Where I agree with you entirely is with regard to Defoe, who has massive talent, but has not grown with experience. It may be that Ramos knows the secret to his development, but again Defoe's lack of awareness that he's not the finished article, albeit encouraged by his fans, has to be down to him in part.

Having modified your comments, I think the fact that you have been able to specify eight players, (and others might be added to the list), who have disappointed to a greater or lesser degree suggests that the coaching was not all it could be.

However, your spirited defence of Daniel Levy misses a crucial point which is the crux of the argument against the machinations of the last few months. If Jol wasn't good enough last week, and wasn't good enough in August, then he wasn't good enough at the end of last season, and should have been replaced then. The fact that he wasn't, and has been now, reflects badly on Levy.
 

joey55

Active Member
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
9,005
#66
He will invest further in the team, will get us a new ground, his interest is our interest.....to build the club up in every positive way. He is doing it for share price to sell obviously, but the end outcome is the same.
What is it that makes you think this. Personally I find it a bit too simplistic a view. A couple of years ago, 2004, i came very close to putting a fair chunk of my money in Tottenham shares (in the end I went with Google instead). The reason I came so close is that I looked at very carefully at the way the business had been managed under ENIC to that point and spotted what I thought was the basis of their business model and how they planned on developing the club. What really attracted me to ENICs running of the club was that it was exactly what I thought we needed to take us forward. However, in the summer a couple of things happened that made me take a second look at how beneficial the future relationship between Spurs and ENIC might be, and I just don't see it as such a cut and dried case of "his interest is our interest." I just can't see a feasable financial model that suggests it is in ENICs interest to pursue CL football to the degree that we the fans would like.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
45,214
#67
I am going to give you my take on it.

We were total shit, we got taken over. The chairman picked the fans favourite as manager, he was shit and wasted money on poor transfers.

The chairman replaced him and put a new structure in place. We had the most success we have had in about 20 years in the league. The chairman streamlined the club and made it into a fantastic business. The chairman invested HEAVILY in the team. We qualified for Europe twice but it became apparent the coach was a bit shit and the players were not reaching their potential. The chairman changed the coach and brought in someone proven who had actually won things.

What has he done wrong and how is he responsible for our position? It was the wanky manager at fault. I would like to point out to the pondlife in south lower that without the board we would be finishing 12th still with a lot worse a squad and a lot less money in the club. We also would never be dreaming of top 4 places and continued European qualification.

Thank fuck we don't have you lot on the board!
Yes, he installed the fans' favourite, having sacked the incumbent just before a cup semi-final. And whilst I was almightily glad to see the back of a Gooner **** who should never have been appointed in the first place, the timing of his departure could hardly have been more unfortunate. Or perhaps Levy didn't want to risk us beating the Scum under Graham's command?

Hoddle should have gone at the end of the 2003-2003 season. Instead, he was handed £13m (half of it spent on the useless Postiga) and sacked after six games, leaving us to struggle through the rest of the season under Pleaty. That's really decisive. We had the Trappatoni farce, the Santini fiasco, and then Jol turned things around. But not, apparently, enough for some, despite achieving fifth twice, so, totally out of the blue, off to Sevilla we go. Anyone who thinks that comedy show and the inevitable undermining of Jol didn't have a major effect on his and the team's performances is mad or stupid, or both. But let's blame the nasty tabloids and the Beeb, eh?

So who was leaking the anti-Jol stories that surfaced in the press, and on here (via COYS and FTL) immediately after Ramosgate? What sort of club briefs against its own coach via tame journos? This one, apparently. Only the strategy backfired, with the press and pundits largely taking Jol's side. It really is a bit rich attacking the media when elements at the club started supplying the journos with ammunition.

So we have a new head coach who may well be better than Jol, assuming he hangs around more than a couple of seasons before a better offer comes along. To that end, our club has been made a laughing-stock and results have suffered badly. And one image which is going to remain with me a very long time is Levy and that **** Kemsley smirking at one another as things went tits-up against Getafe.

Wonderful stuff. I'm sure we should all be very grateful. Perhaps the club should bring out another commemorative shirt to rip us off for.
 

muffwah

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
508
#70
It is clear that Lennon is a much better player than he was when he arrived, (though his progress has been very erratic) if only because he could only last for a quarter of an hour when he arrived, and I suspect that as he regains full match fitness, which is not quite there yet, he will impress again.. Routledge hasn't progressed, but a large amount of his Tottenham career has been spent at other clubs, so our coaching methods can't be blamed too much for his lack of progress. Robinson improved and then went backwards. Chimbonda doesn't need coaching he needs focus, and that's down to him alone. Malbranque has never been played in his best position, but has fulfilled a need for the team, and is now better at it in my view than when he arrived. Bent has hardly appeared, so blaming coaching for his lack of confidence is unfair. Dawson made massive early strides but has gone backwards, and I feel a lack of Ledley is a significant factor with him. So much for those who saw him as captaincy material. Where I agree with you entirely is with regard to Defoe, who has massive talent, but has not grown with experience. It may be that Ramos knows the secret to his development, but again Defoe's lack of awareness that he's not the finished article, albeit encouraged by his fans, has to be down to him in part.

Having modified your comments, I think the fact that you have been able to specify eight players, (and others might be added to the list), who have disappointed to a greater or lesser degree suggests that the coaching was not all it could be.

However, your spirited defence of Daniel Levy misses a crucial point which is the crux of the argument against the machinations of the last few months. If Jol wasn't good enough last week, and wasn't good enough in August, then he wasn't good enough at the end of last season, and should have been replaced then. The fact that he wasn't, and has been now, reflects badly on Levy.
Fair point, I agree
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
45,214
#72
So Levy should be totally beyond criticism?

We may have the right man for the job, but the way we went about it has made the club look utterly ridiculous. You're OK with that?

As AG said, if Jol wasn't good enough at the start of this season, he wasn't good enough at the end of last season; if Levy had wielded the axe then, as he should have done with Hoddle in 2003, and gone out and got Ramos in June, there would have been hell to pay on this and every other board, but if we were now sitting pretty on 20-odd points no-one would be complaining. The way it's been done makes it look as if the board panicked after two poor performances, and I don't think that was the case at all. I'm pretty sure something happened over the summer that we've not heard about yet.
 

N10toN17

New Member
Joined
Jan 22, 2007
Messages
1,288
#73
I am going to give you my take on it.

We were total shit, we got taken over. The chairman picked the fans favourite as manager, he was shit and wasted money on poor transfers.

The chairman replaced him and put a new structure in place. We had the most success we have had in about 20 years in the league. The chairman streamlined the club and made it into a fantastic business. The chairman invested HEAVILY in the team. We qualified for Europe twice but it became apparent the coach was a bit shit and the players were not reaching their potential. The chairman changed the coach and brought in someone proven who had actually won things.

What has he done wrong and how is he responsible for our position? It was the wanky manager at fault. I would like to point out to the pondlife in south lower that without the board we would be finishing 12th still with a lot worse a squad and a lot less money in the club. We also would never be dreaming of top 4 places and continued European qualification.

Thank fuck we don't have you lot on the board!
I don't know if you go to matches or not, but either way, you've made yourself look like a right cock with that comment.
 

muffwah

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
508
#74
I don't know if you go to matches or not, but either way, you've made yourself look like a right cock with that comment.

Sorry were you there? If not perhaps you don't know what I am talking about MUPPET

I have a season ticket thanks, West stand all the way :clap:
 

muffwah

New Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
Messages
508
#75
I don't know if you go to matches or not, but either way, you've made yourself look like a right cock with that comment.

I was in block 35 for one game, real nice crowd. Not a good word to say about anyone except the ex-employee who had just pocketed £5m of his beloved club.
 

joey55

Active Member
Joined
May 20, 2005
Messages
9,005
#76
So Levy should be totally beyond criticism?

We may have the right man for the job, but the way we went about it has made the club look utterly ridiculous. You're OK with that?

As AG said, if Jol wasn't good enough at the start of this season, he wasn't good enough at the end of last season; if Levy had wielded the axe then, as he should have done with Hoddle in 2003, and gone out and got Ramos in June, there would have been hell to pay on this and every other board, but if we were now sitting pretty on 20-odd points no-one would be complaining. The way it's been done makes it look as if the board panicked after two poor performances, and I don't think that was the case at all. I'm pretty sure something happened over the summer that we've not heard about yet.
From my point of view, Berbatovs pay rise situation really made me take a look at things and I wouldn't be suprised if it was that which had a big impact on Levy's thinking. Basically we know the basic transfer policy that Levy has wisely used to run the club around. However, key to this policy being successful is waiting for the talented youngsters to develop, which takes a few seasons. But, the trouble with this, is that whilst we are waiting for these players to develop, other clubs that are already where we want to be, will poach our players that are ready. He first had to accept letting our best player in Carrick leave for Utd, which had a big impact and set us back. Then this summer he had to give Berbs a pay rise just to keep him happy and there is nothing he can do to stop him leaving next summer, so again we'll take a step back. And what if the year after that Chelseas decide they like the look of Kaboul? Basically I think Levy has realised that our policy can only take us so far and perhaps we have reached its limits. Therefore he is almost certainly looking to sell. But in the mean time, it is important to try and move forward as much as possible and there is always the possibility he doesn't recieve an attractive offer. Jol probably couldn't take us into the top 4 with the current set up. Maybe Ramos can? I suspect Levy doubts it, but he had little to gain by sticking with Jol and little to lose by trying a new coach with a top reputation.
 

eViL

SC's Naughty Boy
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
4,739
#77
You are all talking like other clubs don't do it.

Are you all that fucking Naive to think that this doesn't happen at clubs day in, day out?

Jol wasn't going to turn things around. It was OBVIOUS he'd lost the dressing room for whatever reason and he only had Keane and maybe Dawson TRYING to play for him. Do you really think that's because we flirted with another club's manager? Lets face it, if Jol HAD the dressing room, after we 'got caught out' they'd be playing to keep him in a job and they just weren't.

The only place we were going this season was down and no matter how much we adored Jol, it was obvious he wasn't going to turn it around.
 

eViL

SC's Naughty Boy
Joined
May 15, 2004
Messages
4,739
#78
And for the criticism on our spending policy, again people forget, there's money in the bank for two things:

1) Stadium Plans
2) Champions League players when we are in a position to compete in the Champions League.
 

phil

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2004
Messages
1,881
#79
The Board are answerable to the shareholders. Why would shareholders want to remove a Chairman who has presided over such a massive improvement in the share price (my Preference Shares purchased 3 years ago increased in value tenfold)? And given that ENIC own a majority of the shares, how do you think Levy could be sacked.

Stupid post. Levy is a great Chairman. His only mistake was not getting rid of Jol pre-season.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2006
Messages
45,214
#80
It's totally stupid to say he should be sacked, because he's been a terrific chairman in most respects, but on this particular score he's come out with no credit at all. It's all very well to say, 'But every other club does it'. Does any other club bar Chelsea do it so embarrassingly badly?
 
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