mil1lion
This is the place to be
- May 7, 2004
- 42,486
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This seems to be the hottest subject going atm.
Both are good players, international quality in fact. So those who claim either one is shit need to grow up really.
Time and time again I read about the goals Pavlyuchenko has scored and the lack of goals Crouch has scored. How convenient it is that these same people refuse to acknowledge the assists of Peter Crouch. Once again plan b came into play at the weekend and turned 0 points into 1. A long ball up to Crouch, flick on to Defoe, Lennon scores. Yet again Crouch receives little to no credit.
This is really the key difference between the 2 players. Crouch is not and has never been a goalscorer in the Premier League. If we signed Crouch to score goals then that is a failing on our part. He has always been about assists. It seems a lot of people dislike this type of player, something that Heskey got a lot of stick for with England.
Pavlyuchenko on the other hand is a goalscorer. That's what his game is all about. He doesn't work as hard as Crouch but technically I think he's our most gifted striker. His goalscoring record however has been ok at best since joining. Now in his defence he hasn't aways had a long run in the team. However, he has linked up well with Defoe in the past.
For me, players like Pav who score goals (some of which have been excellent goals) will always be favoured over someone like Crouch. It's often the end product that people favour. Much like how goalscoring players often become player of the year. They're the players people love the most. Factor in the fact that one has a fancy foreign name.
The main qualities of Pavlyuchenko are his technical ability and his shooting inside the box. From outside the box he is very hit and miss, often miss. He has an excellent strike of the ball though. His weaknesses are his lack of workrate or even lack of interest, he lacks in the aerial department, lacks pace and his touch is not too great either.
The main qualities of Crouch are his ability to win headers and his workrate. He has a decent touch without being spectacular. He also does a very respectable job defending set pieces. His biggest weaknesses are his lack of strength to match his size, his actual power in the air, his lack of shooting ability and lack of pace.
What is clear is that neither player has enough qualities to be considered top class players. We all know this and obviously many are frustrated by one or both of these strikers. I could bring Defoe into the equation, but it really is the debate between Crouch and Pav that has gone on for a little while now.
So to compare what the 2 bring directly in terms of goals...
2009/10
Peter Crouch - League Games Started 21 (17 as sub), League Goals 8, League Assists 6
Cup Games Started 8 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 5, Cup Assists 0
Roman Pavlyuchenko - League Games Started 8 (8 as sub), League Goals 5, League Assists 2
Cup Games Started 4 (4 as sub), Cup Goals 5, Cup Assists 0
2010/11 so far
Peter Crouch - League Games Started 13 (10 as sub), League Goals 1, League Assists 6
Cup Games Started 5 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 3, Cup Assists 3
Roman Pavlyuchenko - League Games Started 9 (8 as sub), League Goals 5, League Assists 0
Cup Games Started 5 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 3, Cup Assists 0
As you can see there really isn't a great deal of difference between games played and actual contribution to goals. By that I mean an assist by Crouch is every bit as valuable as a goal from Pavlyuchenko. I dont know about everyone else but I personally couldn't care less who scores the goals. As long as we score goals as a team and win games. Pavlyuchenko does just shade things. This is without factoring in overall contribution to general play of course.
Now i'm not going to say which of the 2 players is better. They are 2 very different players. However I do feel that Crouch gets the short end of the stick a lot more than Pavlyuchenko. Neither player is a special player and therefore doesn't necessarily deserve special treatment. I'm always one to support our players, but I also agree that structured criticism is required from time to time. If a player isn't doing his job then questions should be asked.
Is Crouch providing assists? Is Pavlyuchenko scoring goals? On both accounts i'd have to say yes. Neither by a long margin, but all in all they both deliver somewhat to their responsibilites as strikers. For this reason neither should be classed as useless. Can they be improved on? Sure they can. How many players can we say that about though? Every team has their special players (Van Der Vaart, Bale and Modric for example).
It's the overall contribution to the squad that is important. So while we could upgrade on either, the importance is not as highly exagerated as it is perceived. Add one top class striker up top for either 1 of these players and i'm sure it would make a huge difference. Just that one special player and the special player Harry has spoken of. We already have a very good squad of players here. What we fall a little short of is 1 or 2 special players.
So we're into the final week of the transfer window and we look set to sell Pavlyuchenko in favour of a new striker. Now until something official happens we can't be too sure on that. However as expected we all are open to our own opinions on the matter. There is especially a number of those against the sale of Pavlyuchenko.
Now of the 2, it really does depend on which type of striker we bring in. I don't see the need to sell Crouch unless we can get someone to offer us that plan b. For all the fancy football we play, we do need that option in the Premier League. Some may say that Barca don't have that type of striker and they're doing just fine. But they play in a very technical league with different types of centre back.
Things are different in England. Defenders are more about roughing up centre forwards here compared to Spain, where the centre backs are used to having the ball at their feet. Not just Spain mind, a number of Leagues are the same across Europe. This in fact is a reason why Crouch has so much joy in European and International competition, the centre backs aren't used to that style of striker and the number of crosses into the box (something Gomes himself had to adjust to).
Of the 2 strikers I believe Crouch is the hardest to replace. For us to replace Crouch we really need a big centre forward to win headers. He needs to work hard like Crouch, defend well at set pieces and provide assists for the technical players. In order to improve on him (no point replacing like for like) he needs to be a more physical version of Crouch, with better shooting, preferably pace and more powerful in the air. These type of strikers are very rare to find and very expensive at that.
In order to replace Pavlyuchenko we need a striker who is technical with an eye for goal. In order for us to improve on him we need someone who works harder, gets more involved in play, preferably pace again and makes things happen. We've been linked with more of these type of players than the Crouch ones. These aren't as rare, although still expensive and not many teams are willing to sell.
The question is really about who we can get. The possible Crouch replacements tend to be the likes of Adebayor, Lukaku and Carroll. All very hard to get in this window. The possible Pavlyuchenko replacements tend to be Forlan, Rossi and Suarez. These appear to be the more realistic options. Which is probably the reason for opting to sell Pavlyuchenko at this moment in time. I for one fully agree with this apporach.
If we were to sign either one of Rossi, Forlan or Suarez as replacements for Crouch then we would have nobody to win headers. There would be no real plan b. We do play wonderful football under Harry but like I say we do need that as an option. The top teams in England have an aerial threat up front. Certain games require this type of player.
Both are good players, international quality in fact. So those who claim either one is shit need to grow up really.
Time and time again I read about the goals Pavlyuchenko has scored and the lack of goals Crouch has scored. How convenient it is that these same people refuse to acknowledge the assists of Peter Crouch. Once again plan b came into play at the weekend and turned 0 points into 1. A long ball up to Crouch, flick on to Defoe, Lennon scores. Yet again Crouch receives little to no credit.
This is really the key difference between the 2 players. Crouch is not and has never been a goalscorer in the Premier League. If we signed Crouch to score goals then that is a failing on our part. He has always been about assists. It seems a lot of people dislike this type of player, something that Heskey got a lot of stick for with England.
Pavlyuchenko on the other hand is a goalscorer. That's what his game is all about. He doesn't work as hard as Crouch but technically I think he's our most gifted striker. His goalscoring record however has been ok at best since joining. Now in his defence he hasn't aways had a long run in the team. However, he has linked up well with Defoe in the past.
For me, players like Pav who score goals (some of which have been excellent goals) will always be favoured over someone like Crouch. It's often the end product that people favour. Much like how goalscoring players often become player of the year. They're the players people love the most. Factor in the fact that one has a fancy foreign name.
The main qualities of Pavlyuchenko are his technical ability and his shooting inside the box. From outside the box he is very hit and miss, often miss. He has an excellent strike of the ball though. His weaknesses are his lack of workrate or even lack of interest, he lacks in the aerial department, lacks pace and his touch is not too great either.
The main qualities of Crouch are his ability to win headers and his workrate. He has a decent touch without being spectacular. He also does a very respectable job defending set pieces. His biggest weaknesses are his lack of strength to match his size, his actual power in the air, his lack of shooting ability and lack of pace.
What is clear is that neither player has enough qualities to be considered top class players. We all know this and obviously many are frustrated by one or both of these strikers. I could bring Defoe into the equation, but it really is the debate between Crouch and Pav that has gone on for a little while now.
So to compare what the 2 bring directly in terms of goals...
2009/10
Peter Crouch - League Games Started 21 (17 as sub), League Goals 8, League Assists 6
Cup Games Started 8 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 5, Cup Assists 0
Roman Pavlyuchenko - League Games Started 8 (8 as sub), League Goals 5, League Assists 2
Cup Games Started 4 (4 as sub), Cup Goals 5, Cup Assists 0
2010/11 so far
Peter Crouch - League Games Started 13 (10 as sub), League Goals 1, League Assists 6
Cup Games Started 5 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 3, Cup Assists 3
Roman Pavlyuchenko - League Games Started 9 (8 as sub), League Goals 5, League Assists 0
Cup Games Started 5 (1 as sub), Cup Goals 3, Cup Assists 0
As you can see there really isn't a great deal of difference between games played and actual contribution to goals. By that I mean an assist by Crouch is every bit as valuable as a goal from Pavlyuchenko. I dont know about everyone else but I personally couldn't care less who scores the goals. As long as we score goals as a team and win games. Pavlyuchenko does just shade things. This is without factoring in overall contribution to general play of course.
Now i'm not going to say which of the 2 players is better. They are 2 very different players. However I do feel that Crouch gets the short end of the stick a lot more than Pavlyuchenko. Neither player is a special player and therefore doesn't necessarily deserve special treatment. I'm always one to support our players, but I also agree that structured criticism is required from time to time. If a player isn't doing his job then questions should be asked.
Is Crouch providing assists? Is Pavlyuchenko scoring goals? On both accounts i'd have to say yes. Neither by a long margin, but all in all they both deliver somewhat to their responsibilites as strikers. For this reason neither should be classed as useless. Can they be improved on? Sure they can. How many players can we say that about though? Every team has their special players (Van Der Vaart, Bale and Modric for example).
It's the overall contribution to the squad that is important. So while we could upgrade on either, the importance is not as highly exagerated as it is perceived. Add one top class striker up top for either 1 of these players and i'm sure it would make a huge difference. Just that one special player and the special player Harry has spoken of. We already have a very good squad of players here. What we fall a little short of is 1 or 2 special players.
So we're into the final week of the transfer window and we look set to sell Pavlyuchenko in favour of a new striker. Now until something official happens we can't be too sure on that. However as expected we all are open to our own opinions on the matter. There is especially a number of those against the sale of Pavlyuchenko.
Now of the 2, it really does depend on which type of striker we bring in. I don't see the need to sell Crouch unless we can get someone to offer us that plan b. For all the fancy football we play, we do need that option in the Premier League. Some may say that Barca don't have that type of striker and they're doing just fine. But they play in a very technical league with different types of centre back.
Things are different in England. Defenders are more about roughing up centre forwards here compared to Spain, where the centre backs are used to having the ball at their feet. Not just Spain mind, a number of Leagues are the same across Europe. This in fact is a reason why Crouch has so much joy in European and International competition, the centre backs aren't used to that style of striker and the number of crosses into the box (something Gomes himself had to adjust to).
Of the 2 strikers I believe Crouch is the hardest to replace. For us to replace Crouch we really need a big centre forward to win headers. He needs to work hard like Crouch, defend well at set pieces and provide assists for the technical players. In order to improve on him (no point replacing like for like) he needs to be a more physical version of Crouch, with better shooting, preferably pace and more powerful in the air. These type of strikers are very rare to find and very expensive at that.
In order to replace Pavlyuchenko we need a striker who is technical with an eye for goal. In order for us to improve on him we need someone who works harder, gets more involved in play, preferably pace again and makes things happen. We've been linked with more of these type of players than the Crouch ones. These aren't as rare, although still expensive and not many teams are willing to sell.
The question is really about who we can get. The possible Crouch replacements tend to be the likes of Adebayor, Lukaku and Carroll. All very hard to get in this window. The possible Pavlyuchenko replacements tend to be Forlan, Rossi and Suarez. These appear to be the more realistic options. Which is probably the reason for opting to sell Pavlyuchenko at this moment in time. I for one fully agree with this apporach.
If we were to sign either one of Rossi, Forlan or Suarez as replacements for Crouch then we would have nobody to win headers. There would be no real plan b. We do play wonderful football under Harry but like I say we do need that as an option. The top teams in England have an aerial threat up front. Certain games require this type of player.
