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The Issue I Have With Certain English “Fans”

Disconosebleed

Well-Known Member
Dec 22, 2005
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Not sure if this is true but it seems like In England there always has to be a scapegoat if we fail, there always has to be a fall guy to take our frustrations out on.
Is this really true any more? I don't think that's been true for a decade, since McLaren in 2008. Certainly no player has been scapegoated in a long time, and while Hodgson was seen as the problem in the last two tournaments, I think that the reaction was a resigned acceptance that he's a nice chap who wasn't quite good enough, rather than vitriol.
 

Disconosebleed

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Dec 22, 2005
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Also regarding Dele, he isn't a bad person just because he dives and he isn't the only player who does. As much as England fans like it or not, diving is part of the game. People might think that it is cheating the game, but I view it more as gamesmanship.

He doesn't just dive, he's a snidey player in general. Let's be realistic here, if he played for anyone other than Tottenham he would be as hated by us as he is by fans of other clubs.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
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Is this really true any more? I don't think that's been true for a decade, since McLaren in 2008. Certainly no player has been scapegoated in a long time, and while Hodgson was seen as the problem in the last two tournaments, I think that the reaction was a resigned acceptance that he's a nice chap who wasn't quite good enough, rather than vitriol.

I remember Harry Kane getting an awful amount of stick during the Euros...
 

Eden

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Jun 7, 2017
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He doesn't just dive, he's a snidey player in general. Let's be realistic here, if he played for anyone other than Tottenham he would be as hated by us as he is by fans of other clubs.

I'd like to know how you came up with that conclusion. Besides diving and sometimes being a bit of a hothead (which I haven't seen much of this season), for the most part he seems like a decent man. For a 20 year old and knowing his background, to me he seems to have turned out alright. I can think of plenty of other players who I'd describe as a "wanker" and Dele isn't one of them. I might have spurs-tinted glasses with this opinion but I think most neutrals would feel the same to be honest.
 

Shadydan

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Jul 7, 2012
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Is this really true any more? I don't think that's been true for a decade, since McLaren in 2008. Certainly no player has been scapegoated in a long time, and while Hodgson was seen as the problem in the last two tournaments, I think that the reaction was a resigned acceptance that he's a nice chap who wasn't quite good enough, rather than vitriol.

Let's face it it's always been Rooney with the exception of the last tournament, Rooney Hodgson and Kane took the brunt of the criticism. Hodgson got absolutely torn to pieces after the Euro's and rightly so IMO.
 

Disconosebleed

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Dec 22, 2005
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I'd like to know how you came up with that conclusion. Besides diving and sometimes being a bit of a hothead (which I haven't seen much of this season), for the most part he seems like a decent man. For a 20 year old and knowing his background, to me he seems to have turned out alright. I can think of plenty of other players who I'd describe as a "wanker" and Dele isn't one of them. I might have spurs-tinted glasses with this opinion but I think most neutrals would feel the same to be honest.

He might well be a nice bloke off the pitch, but on the pitch he is variously a wind-up merchant, a diver and likes a snide, dirty tackle too. With the exception of the diving he seems to be cleaning up his act somewhat, but his reputation is fully deserved. You can point to his background as mitigating circumstances if you like, but do you do the same for players from other clubs? I think you are miles off if you think neutrals are positive or even indifferent on Alli, he's one of the most disliked players i the league.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
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I don't know how it is in other countries but tribalism is rife in England, I can imagine in Germany for example everyone hates Bayern Munich especially Dortmund and Schalke but when it's world cup or Euro's time all the fans pull together and support each other as one. Not sure if this is true but it seems like In England there always has to be a scapegoat if we fail, there always has to be a fall guy to take our frustrations out on. Even in our most successful tournament where the country was behind the England team the media and fans still scapegoated Southgate for missing that Penalty when we should have been getting behind him, it's quite spiteful when you think about it.
I actually befriended a couple of German guys at the WC and went to the Ghana game with them. They didn't say a single negative word about their team other than "We're not sure about Mustafi". Extremely light criticism. Other than that they spoke about the players with affection.

Secondly, my friend lives in Germany and he told me that Bayern are hated inside the country but once they are in Europe fans of other clubs urge them on. Not saying we need to do that but it was quite interesting. I think about Leeds fans and anyone who has so much touched a United shirt is 'scum' or 'scum of the earth' and Leeds fans will carry that opinion across all boards so rather than put rivalry aside for a short while they will wait for a mistake from, say Chris Smalling and then the insults come flying out.

It's pathetic and I don't want any association with it. I hate Wilshere but I'd put away the hatred whilst he puts on an England shirt.
 

Eden

Member
Jun 7, 2017
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He might well be a nice bloke off the pitch, but on the pitch he is variously a wind-up merchant, a diver and likes a snide, dirty tackle too. With the exception of the diving he seems to be cleaning up his act somewhat, but his reputation is fully deserved. You can point to his background as mitigating circumstances if you like, but do you do the same for players from other clubs? I think you are miles off if you think neutrals are positive or even indifferent on Alli, he's one of the most disliked players i the league.

I don't "hate" any player, expect for "wilshite"; he can piss off, except when he's playing for England. A couple of years ago, Diego Costa was a very unlikable player by many but I found out more about him and he seems to be a great person. I don't make judgements of players of how they act on a pitch, you can be the nicest guy in the world but when the whistle blows some people turn into a different person if that makes sense. That's why even if a player may act like a knob on the pitch, I won't think they are a knob in general. I try to not make assumptions before I have enough information as possible, hope you understand what I am getting at. :)
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Jun 24, 2008
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Club before country. I could never support England properly when terry was playing.
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
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I support both Ireland's and our fans as far as my experience goes don't give a shit what club team the player plays for.

Then again we don't expect as much from our country as English fans as England are a very decent side, we just go for the beer and craic.
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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It does feel like it's getting worse in some respects and I do think that is down to social media, perhaps it's giving those idiots the chance to be more vocal about who they dislike, etc.

I know what you mean but on the other hand I sort of feel like it's got better in some ways since the end of the so-called "Golden Generation". Back when they were playing, everyone seemed absolutely convinced we were in with a chance of winning the World Cup and so when it inevitably didn't happen, everyone was furious. Nowadays people do finally seem to have a slightly more realistic expectation of how far England are likely to get so it's a little bit less vicious.
 

'O Zio

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Dec 27, 2014
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Where is this idea that Kane is disliked coming from? Aside from the odd childish mocking of the way he talks, Kane has generally been shown nothing but love by fans throughout his career - that has dimmed somewhat in the past couple of weeks by the Stoke goal thing, which frankly is his own fault, albeit blown out of proportion as tends to happen nowadays with any minor transgression. And in any case, with a few exceptions (mainly Liverpool fans, who are mostly insane) it's light-hearted piss-taking rather than genuine dislike of him.

The only Tottenham player that is notably disliked by fans as far as I can see is Dele Alli, and that is entirely justified. England fans on the whole don't dislike Kane, Dier, Rose, Trippier, Winks or previously Walker. In fact, looking at recent England squads I'm not sure there is anyone who is notably disliked by the fans - Sterling is probably the closest to a hate figure but he gets nowhere near the stick Rooney used to for example, and on the whole there has been a general acceptance/resignation over the past few tournaments that pinning the failings of the national team on specific players is stupid, because the problems are wider-reaching than that.

Sensible fans don't hate Kane and he obviously isn't disliked as much as Alli, but basically the mere fact that he doesn't play for Man Utd or Liverpool has meant he's constantly been criminally underrated by fans of other clubs and a lot of the pundits. I've often heard people saying that they know he scores goals for Spurs but whenever they've seen him play he looks absolutely useless etc. It's only really the end of last season/beginning of this season that pundits have started to just accept that he's one of the best in Europe.

It seems to me like a lot of fans of other clubs really want him to fail so that they can say "See, I told you he was just a one two three four five season wonder" and so on.

The whole Stoke goal thing also doesn't exactly endear him to people to be honest.

Is this really true any more? I don't think that's been true for a decade, since McLaren in 2008. Certainly no player has been scapegoated in a long time, and while Hodgson was seen as the problem in the last two tournaments, I think that the reaction was a resigned acceptance that he's a nice chap who wasn't quite good enough, rather than vitriol.

Completely disagree with that, sorry mate. Rooney and Sterling have both been massively scapegoated in recent years. Some of the stuff about Sterling was incredibly vicious and left a really bad taste in the mouth.
 

Disconosebleed

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Dec 22, 2005
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Sterling and Rooney have been treated badly by the press in general, but it is simply not true that either of them have been scapegoated for England's failures at tournaments, in my view at least. Rooney was made a scapegoat in 2006, but since then it's been...

2008: McLaren
2010: No specific scapegoat, just a general sense that the England team were crap...maybe Capello at a push?
2012: No scapegoat, even the penalty takers weren't really given much grief
2014: No scapegoat, general sense that it was a tough group and we're not very good
2016: No specific scapegoat, anger at getting knocked out by Iceland but not aimed at one player, the whole squad and Hodgson were blamed.

The fact that Kane, Sterling and Rooney have all been suggested as scapegoats for 2016 says to me that no individual was targeted, particularly when Joe Hart was more to blame than anyone. The feeling I got after the Iceland game was that fans were fed up with the team being shit, but weren't blaming any single player. I get the feeling that due to a combination of increased awareness and frustration regarding how the media works and an acceptance that England are actually quite shit has led people to be more reasonable post-tournament. TBH I would question how much truth there is to the scapegoating thing anyway, the only players I can ever remember being obviously targeted are Beckham (1998) and Rooney (2006), and however ridiculous their treatment got, there was at least a justification for them being blamed.
 

Archibald&Crooks

Aegina Expat
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Feb 1, 2005
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2016: No specific scapegoat, anger at getting knocked out by Iceland but not aimed at one player, the whole squad and Hodgson were blamed.
I'm sure Hodgson was massively scapegoated for taking and then playing that oily **** Wilshire who, when selected had played about 3 games worth of football in twenty five years or something. If he wasn't then he should have been. Harry Kane taking corners? What a flange.

But I'm old and the memory plays tricks, so perhaps it was just me that scapegoated him, the bouffant headed, macho voiced ****.
 

RickyVilla

Well-Known Member
May 16, 2004
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I was thinking the same, I am sure Dortmund fans had no issue rooting for Philip Lahm during major tournaments. Fans club affiliation should be put aside during international football, and fans should support everyone wearing our colours. Maybe I am being a bit too patriotic... :D
True that. I even get behind Lord Bendtner when he plays for us. I feel dirty but it happens :hungover:
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
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Sterling and Rooney have been treated badly by the press in general, but it is simply not true that either of them have been scapegoated for England's failures at tournaments, in my view at least. Rooney was made a scapegoat in 2006, but since then it's been...

2008: McLaren
2010: No specific scapegoat, just a general sense that the England team were crap...maybe Capello at a push?
2012: No scapegoat, even the penalty takers weren't really given much grief
2014: No scapegoat, general sense that it was a tough group and we're not very good
2016: No specific scapegoat, anger at getting knocked out by Iceland but not aimed at one player, the whole squad and Hodgson were blamed.

The fact that Kane, Sterling and Rooney have all been suggested as scapegoats for 2016 says to me that no individual was targeted, particularly when Joe Hart was more to blame than anyone. The feeling I got after the Iceland game was that fans were fed up with the team being shit, but weren't blaming any single player. I get the feeling that due to a combination of increased awareness and frustration regarding how the media works and an acceptance that England are actually quite shit has led people to be more reasonable post-tournament. TBH I would question how much truth there is to the scapegoating thing anyway, the only players I can ever remember being obviously targeted are Beckham (1998) and Rooney (2006), and however ridiculous their treatment got, there was at least a justification for them being blamed.

Agree to disagree I suppose, but Raheem Sterling was massively scapegoated at the Euros IMO. Perhaps not so much in the aftermath because the loss to Iceland was seen as Hodgeson's blunder, but during the tournament itself you had our own fans moaning and stuff every time he made the slightest mistake and he was getting dogs abuse from all angles on social media and the like. He's spoken about it at length how he was so excited to play for England but the fans were all on his back from the first game and how that affected him. He even posted on instagram after the Russia game calling himself "The Hated One" is was so bad. During the tournament when we weren't playing well he was always the first one everyone was moaning about. If it hadn't been for the Iceland thing being such a monumental blunder from all sides I think it would've carried on afterwards as well.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
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I've encountered lots of snidey comments about him. Whether it's the way he talks, him taking corners, shooting on sight and now his will to score attitude, he certainly gets a lot of flack from other fans. Compare that with Ronaldo for Portugal, the Portuguese love him and won't say anything bad about him. They have nothing but pride.

The Alli thing is frustrating too. He's clearly a good lad at heart and after the years of Gerrard diving to win England cheap penalties and not to mention Owen diving against Argentina the whole hate towards him is unjustified IMO. It's based on the fact that he is an exceptional talent and a threat to the likes of Liverpool.

The whole situation with Liverpool fans this season has also had an effect on my affinity and desire for England to do well. Them idiot bin dippers don't deserve Kane or Alli.


I don't understand that thought process. How's England doing shit going to make you feel better?
 

punkisback

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Apr 10, 2004
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Agree to disagree I suppose, but Raheem Sterling was massively scapegoated at the Euros IMO. Perhaps not so much in the aftermath because the loss to Iceland was seen as Hodgeson's blunder, but during the tournament itself you had our own fans moaning and stuff every time he made the slightest mistake and he was getting dogs abuse from all angles on social media and the like. He's spoken about it at length how he was so excited to play for England but the fans were all on his back from the first game and how that affected him. He even posted on instagram after the Russia game calling himself "The Hated One" is was so bad. During the tournament when we weren't playing well he was always the first one everyone was moaning about. If it hadn't been for the Iceland thing being such a monumental blunder from all sides I think it would've carried on afterwards as well.
Sterling himself reckons he's just got one of those faces that people love to hate; he's actually said it in an interview. I do feel for the kid.
 
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