The Kyle Walker-Peters Thread

['O Zio]

Agreed, but what could work is a bigger team adopting a smaller team.
Would have to be strict rules, but could work.

So, for example. Adopted team has to be at least two leagues lower.
Adopted team allowed max 12 players in squad from parent team.
If adopted team gets promoted to be one league below parent team, they allowed max 5 players and 5 staff from parent team.
If adopted team gets promoted to same league, all adoption must cease and no loans between the two clubs allowed.

Etc

While that would probably be better than having direct B teams, I'm still not a fan. That would also be incredibly complicated to sort out.

Also, I can't see many fans of lower league clubs being overly impressed at the club they've grown up supporting being turned into a pawn in some PL club's game.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

It's a shame we can't have B teams in the league. It's no wonder the top Spanish clubs produce so many youth prospects.

You mean like Liverpool have with Southampton?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I don't understand why the FA, if they are so worried about English football, don't make it a rule that all clubs must play at least three academy/home grown players, under 21yo in all rounds of the FA Cup. And make the league cup completely U23 with 3 over age players.

It would mean academy players get at least a a handful of senior games every season, fans would know exactly what they were getting in those cups, instead of it being a surprise when they pitch up away in those cups to find their manager is playing a reserve team, it would also generate some interest, by introducing an element of the unknown.

The reason the FA would argue against this is that it will "dilute their product" - if that's the case, then how can the FA complain about the PL clubs not doing it?

 

[thinktank]

Boy just needs a loan tbh.

If poch doesn't let him go out, then I would hope that he is being kept here and trained up super hard as #2 to Aurier for next season.

I just hope there is some plan behind it and he needs to play competitive football.

 

[Locotoro]

While that would probably be better than having direct B teams, I'm still not a fan. That would also be incredibly complicated to sort out.

Also, I can't see many fans of lower league clubs being overly impressed at the club they've grown up supporting being turned into a pawn in some PL club's game.

Just ask fans of Leyton Orient or Coventry City whether they would be interested in being adopted by a premier league club or prefer disappearing into oblivion?

When you consider that in England we are lacking in the technical ability of youth players compared with European counterparts the big difference is that the youth players are able to learn through repetition rather than each spends 9 months at a different club, each playing a different style, under different constraints and pressures.

The alternative is to allow for buy back clauses or some other financial remedy

 

[longtimespur]

Orient would be a good call for us to sponsor. They are certainly in decline and maybe going under. It really is a shame.
I went there on occasions in my youth when our first team were playing away and I fancied a change from watching our reserves.

 

[allpaths]

If he is good enough and wants it enough, Onomah going to Villa will not end his career with Spurs. He needs to be showing his work ethic and trying to improve every day. If so, he has enough talent to get on the field and show that he deserves to fight for a spot with us. Some players need that challenge of playing and gaining the steel that it takes to play as a starter against men each week, others will benefit more from being around Spurs first team. It is not one solution for every player and know the people that watch these players in training every day know more of what they need than I do. Some players get breaks, others succeed despite bad luck, but, IMO, other than if a player is injured the player determines his level of success regardless of what club he ends up at.

All I said is this loan COULD ruin his career, for three reasons 1) he is at a club that play horrible football and therefore Josh hasnt played any spurs style football at all 2) He's barely played in center midfield at all, so he still has minimuim playing expierence in the position that he has the best chance of making it at spurs in, 3) with our injury crisis at CM this season who knows Josh might have got his lucky break

You are 100% correct that what works for one player might not work best for another, but unless their is a concentrated effort from the manager/management team to go out of their way to incorporate the youngster into the first team, then a loan to the right club imo is the best option after one full year of training professionally with the 1st team.

There are many examples of players going out to the wrong club and it actively hurting their careers. They might not have been able to fully stick with us anyway but there chances of were several hurt by bad loans. Like Tom Carroll's loan to QPR, Ryan Mason's Lorient loan, Veljkovic's Middlesborough loan and Alex Pritchard's WBA loan.

 

['O Zio]

Just ask fans of Leyton Orient or Coventry City whether they would be interested in being adopted by a premier league club or prefer disappearing into oblivion?

When you consider that in England we are lacking in the technical ability of youth players compared with European counterparts the big difference is that the youth players are able to learn through repetition rather than each spends 9 months at a different club, each playing a different style, under different constraints and pressures.

The alternative is to allow for buy back clauses or some other financial remedy

Orient and Cov are screwed because of their ridiculous ownership. Having a team full of PL loanees won't do anything to remedy that. And again, people support Orient because they're Orient. If they only survive as some husk of the former club that's basically just West Ham B in an Orient shirt I'm not sure most fans would see that as really "surviving". It would be in name alone.

I just don't think it's true anymore that English players aren't technical, that was true 10-15 years ago but coaching methods have changed and the latest batch of kids coming through are all very technically capable players. Even if it were true, I don't see how playing in the lower leagues fixes that tbh.

 

[glospur]

I don't understand why the FA, if they are so worried about English football, don't make it a rule that all clubs must play at least three academy/home grown players, under 21yo in all rounds of the FA Cup. And make the league cup completely U23 with 3 over age players.

It would mean academy players get at least a a handful of senior games every season, fans would know exactly what they were getting in those cups, instead of it being a surprise when they pitch up away in those cups to find their manager is playing a reserve team, it would also generate some interest, by introducing an element of the unknown.

The reason the FA would argue against this is that it will "dilute their product" - if that's the case, then how can the FA complain about the PL clubs not doing it?

I'd also like to see them extend the amount allowed on the bench in PL games with a minimum requirement for U23 players. It means that they're there and managers may be more inclined to throw them on when comfortably winning or losing to give them experience.

 

[tiger666]

I assume all the people complaining about Lamela unable to use his right foot feel the same about KWP and his left. He's unable or unwilling to cross with his left. I see no point playing him out of position.

 

[Johnny J]

I assume all the people complaining about Lamela unable to use his right foot feel the same about KWP and his left. He's unable or unwilling to cross with his left. I see no point playing him out of position.

Unless I've missed some sarcasm here, I agree, and I'd like to see KWP get some games in his correct position. He was man of the match IIRC against Newcastle. Aurier is improving; I think KWP is a better fit for our style of play than Trippier. So much of our attacking threat and width last season was out full backs bombing up and down, and Trippier doesn't offer that. He's not shit, he's good, but I think KWP offers more now and will only get better.

 

[ralphs bald spot]

All I said is this loan COULD ruin his career, for three reasons 1) he is at a club that play horrible football and therefore Josh hasnt played any spurs style football at all 2) He's barely played in center midfield at all, so he still has minimuim playing expierence in the position that he has the best chance of making it at spurs in, 3) with our injury crisis at CM this season who knows Josh might have got his lucky break

You are 100% correct that what works for one player might not work best for another, but unless their is a concentrated effort from the manager/management team to go out of their way to incorporate the youngster into the first team, then a loan to the right club imo is the best option after one full year of training professionally with the 1st team.

There are many examples of players going out to the wrong club and it actively hurting their careers. They might not have been able to fully stick with us anyway but there chances of were several hurt by bad loans. Like Tom Carroll's loan to QPR, Ryan Mason's Lorient loan, Veljkovic's Middlesborough loan and Alex Pritchard's WBA loan.

I think loans are looked at just by players performances - there is a lot more to it- to play is obviously important but the boys have to be taken out of their comfort zones which youth and u23 football become after a while. Football doesn't owe any of them a living and to go away and see the hard parts of football is almost as important as game time in a boys development.

People tallk about loans as if clubs will fall over themselves for our youngsters - often its almost the opposite a club lower down the leagues doesn't have the need for a youngster from Tottenham where the empahasis is on individual development within a skills based environment designed to develop footballers who will play in a certain way.

If a boys loan doesn't work out playing wise its not the end of the world nor is it a certaintly if they on the rare occasion they burn the league up

 

[ChristianBaler]

Whats the point of bringing him on for the last 5 minutes?

After 70 minutes we werent ever going to slip up so why not give him half an hour?

 

[mill]

Whats the point of bringing him on for the last 5 minutes?

After 70 minutes we werent ever going to slip up so why not give him half an hour?

Or at least 20 minutes

 

[MarkyP]

Whats the point of bringing him on for the last 5 minutes?

After 70 minutes we werent ever going to slip up so why not give him half an hour?

because it was about improving the match fitness of Rose and Aurier for upcoming important games... not giving KWP minutes against pony opposition.

 

[nicdic]

I think loans are looked at just by players performances - there is a lot more to it- to play is obviously important but the boys have to be taken out of their comfort zones which youth and u23 football become after a while. Football doesn't owe any of them a living and to go away and see the hard parts of football is almost as important as game time in a boys development.

People tallk about loans as if clubs will fall over themselves for our youngsters - often its almost the opposite a club lower down the leagues doesn't have the need for a youngster from Tottenham where the empahasis is on individual development within a skills based environment designed to develop footballers who will play in a certain way.

If a boys loan doesn't work out playing wise its not the end of the world nor is it a certaintly if they on the rare occasion they burn the league up

Kane's article in the player's tribune is a case in point here. It would seem that the loan that made him was the one to Leicester where he was pretty underwhelming. Loans aren't all about minutes and performances, they're as much about growing up and pushing players out of their comfort zones.

I think Poch has got this this season. His words in his book about the comforts that young players have at the club is quite telling.

 

[ChristianBaler]

because it was about improving the match fitness of Rose and Aurier for upcoming important games... not giving KWP minutes against pony opposition.

Yeah I get that but Aurier missed what, 1/2 games?

An hour is plenty for him to get match fit.

KWP should have been given more time

 

[SpursD22]

Deserves more game time. Hopefully we will make a decision in the summer that will benefit him

 

[coys200]

Was he playing in midfield? Wonder if that’s significant or just saving other subs.

 

[Hengy1]

Was he playing in midfield? Wonder if that’s significant or just saving other subs.

No Rose was. He went left back