The managerial merry go round discussion

yankspurs

"We're not a selling club"
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Thread starter #1
Probably better to keep it all in one thread now...

Watford and Everton are now open. Whose next? United? Woolwich? Swansea? Newly promoted Boro will probably be open as well. Hope Wenger stays on at woolwich another year.

Confirmed new managers next season so far are Pep to City and Conte to Chelsea.

Im still shocked Watford got rid of Flores. Such a tin pot club. Hope they get relegated next year.

Im thinking de Boer to Everton, Mourinho will likely replace LVG at United and Bielsa will probably take over for Guidolin at Swansea.
 

dontcallme

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#2
Football is changing.

Managers being in control is almost a thing of the past at the top level.

Many clubs have DOFs and an entire structure set up so the manager is largely a head coach. Very few plan to be at one club for decades like Wenger and Ferguson.

I'd happily criticise Watford but sacking their last manager who got them promotion worked perfectly well. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes there so I am not going to criticise.

One of my best mates is a Saints fan. He loved Atkins and was shocked at Poch taking over but again it worked fine.

The continuity that clubs need nowadays often comes from the board rather than the manager so more regular changes in managers is going to become the norm.
 

kr1978

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Aug 31, 2012
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#3
Probably better to keep it all in one thread now...

Watford and Everton are now open. Whose next? United? Woolwich? Swansea? Newly promoted Boro will probably be open as well. Hope Wenger stays on at woolwich another year.

Confirmed new managers next season so far are Pep to City and Conte to Chelsea.

Im still shocked Watford got rid of Flores. Such a tin pot club. Hope they get relegated next year.

Im thinking de Boer to Everton, Mourinho will likely replace LVG at United and Bielsa will probably take over for Guidolin at Swansea.
Not the best of starts to your predictions there, Guidolin signed a new 2 year contract with Swansea yesterday :LOL:
 

Spurger King

can't smile without glue
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Jul 22, 2008
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40,910
#4
Football is changing.

Managers being in control is almost a thing of the past at the top level.

Many clubs have DOFs and an entire structure set up so the manager is largely a head coach. Very few plan to be at one club for decades like Wenger and Ferguson.

I'd happily criticise Watford but sacking their last manager who got them promotion worked perfectly well. I don't know what is going on behind the scenes there so I am not going to criticise.

One of my best mates is a Saints fan. He loved Atkins and was shocked at Poch taking over but again it worked fine.

The continuity that clubs need nowadays often comes from the board rather than the manager so more regular changes in managers is going to become the norm.
True, but we're a perfect example of how it's a very difficult system to achieve successfully.

It's common knowledge that Levy wanted to implement exactly the sort of structure you describe. Directors of football, transfer committees...both designed to provide consistency as a protection from a high managerial turnover. However it's arguable that both of those things played a big part in causing managerial upheaval in the first place.

It speaks volumes that Pochettino's offical position has now changed from 'head coach' to 'manager'.

It's a bit of a 'which came first...the chicken or the egg?' (although we all know the egg came first, but still...). If the board has a set-up designed to create consistency, but keeps replacing managers (or head coaches), is the blame at the door of the board or the manager? Equally, if a manger is successful, is that success down to the manager fitting in to the views of the directors on how the club should be run, or down to the manager putting their own stamp on things in such a way that they could never be seamlessly replaced?

Levy has been an experimental director in terms of hiring and firing managers, with a clear pattern emerging:

Hoddle (the easy option of picking a fan favourite)
Santini (a good international reputation)
Jol (not Levy's choice)
Ramos (a highly regarded club manager in Europe, with a clear 'philosophy')
Redknapp (like Jol, more of an appointment forced upon Levy by the circumstances)
AVB - (like Ramos, he had a clear 'philosophy' and was still highly regarded within footballing circles)
Sherwood (glorified caretaker)
Pochettino (similar to Ramos and AVB in terms of having a clear 'philosophy' and a tendency to attend to the details)

To me it seems as though Levy decided after Hoddle to have a director of football/head coach dichotomy. Arnesen was supposed to be working with Santini, then that fell apart pretty quickly. Comolli came in and didn't really get on with Jol, eventually getting the sack alongside Ramos after we dropped to the bottom of the table. Harry was brought in to save us from relegation, then did very well in the more traditional role. As soon as Levy had the opportunity, he booted Harry out and brought back the director of football/head coach dichotomy with Baldini and AVB.

This really didn't seem to work, and AVB mentioned behind-the-scenes disagreements as part of the reason for his leaving by 'mutual consent'.

Pochettino has been given a more traditional role (along with a long contract) and we're finally seeing meaningful long-term changes. I really think that directors need to think more long-term, but I guess immediate results in the day and age of mega bucks is all-important, and we're very lucky that Pochettino has managed to get the squad buying into his philosophy so quickly.
 

dontcallme

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#5
True, but we're a perfect example of how it's a very difficult system to achieve successfully.

It's common knowledge that Levy wanted to implement exactly the sort of structure you describe. Directors of football, transfer committees...both designed to provide consistency as a protection from a high managerial turnover. However it's arguable that both of those things played a big part in causing managerial upheaval in the first place.

It speaks volumes that Pochettino's offical position has now changed from 'head coach' to 'manager'.

It's a bit of a 'which came first...the chicken or the egg?' (although we all know the egg came first, but still...). If the board has a set-up designed to create consistency, but keeps replacing managers (or head coaches), is the blame at the door of the board or the manager? Equally, if a manger is successful, is that success down to the manager fitting in to the views of the directors on how the club should be run, or down to the manager putting their own stamp on things in such a way that they could never be seamlessly replaced?

Levy has been an experimental director in terms of hiring and firing managers, with a clear pattern emerging:

Hoddle (the easy option of picking a fan favourite)
Santini (a good international reputation)
Jol (not Levy's choice)
Ramos (a highly regarded club manager in Europe, with a clear 'philosophy')
Redknapp (like Jol, more of an appointment forced upon Levy by the circumstances)
AVB - (like Ramos, he had a clear 'philosophy' and was still highly regarded within footballing circles)
Sherwood (glorified caretaker)
Pochettino (similar to Ramos and AVB in terms of having a clear 'philosophy' and a tendency to attend to the details)

To me it seems as though Levy decided after Hoddle to have a director of football/head coach dichotomy. Arnesen was supposed to be working with Santini, then that fell apart pretty quickly. Comolli came in and didn't really get on with Jol, eventually getting the sack alongside Ramos after we dropped to the bottom of the table. Harry was brought in to save us from relegation, then did very well in the more traditional role. As soon as Levy had the opportunity, he booted Harry out and brought back the director of football/head coach dichotomy with Baldini and AVB.

This really didn't seem to work, and AVB mentioned behind-the-scenes disagreements as part of the reason for his leaving by 'mutual consent'.

Pochettino has been given a more traditional role (along with a long contract) and we're finally seeing meaningful long-term changes. I really think that directors need to think more long-term, but I guess immediate results in the day and age of mega bucks is all-important, and we're very lucky that Pochettino has managed to get the squad buying into his philosophy so quickly.
Good post.

I think since sacking Hoddle we've had pretty good consistency.

We hired the DOF, manager and head coach and when Santini didn't work out we quickly brought in Jol. It meant we didn't completely collapse and start an overhaul like we had with the previous managers.

Redknapp was the only traditional manager brought on by the double fuck up of Ramos and Comolli.

Despite Poch being manager I have no doubt that there is a lot more people in the club with fancy job titles taking on some of the responsibility that the old-fashioned managers would have had.

Getting it right and everyone on the same page is difficult but Prem clubs are so big and wealthy nowadays that few chairmen will give a manager too much power.
 

yankspurs

"We're not a selling club"
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Thread starter #6
Not the best of starts to your predictions there, Guidolin signed a new 2 year contract with Swansea yesterday :LOL:
Really? That was quick. They were talking about sacking him like a week or so ago
 

yankspurs

"We're not a selling club"
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Thread starter #8
So Mourinho will be Utd's manager if LVG leaves but LVG is likely to remain. A few things here. How is this news, exactly? And how the hell can Sky report Mourinho to Utd if LVG leaves then immediately follow up with LVG is likely to stay?

Still think LVG will leave, though. Utd would be stupid not to make the change now.
 

nailsy

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#9
So Mourinho will be Utd's manager if LVG leaves but LVG is likely to remain. A few things here. How is this news, exactly? And how the hell can Sky report Mourinho to Utd if LVG leaves then immediately follow up with LVG is likely to stay?

Still think LVG will leave, though. Utd would be stupid not to make the change now.
It's been rumoured that José has signed a contract with united which means that if LVG does stay in charge then United will have to pay Mourinho about five million pounds. It sounds so ridiculous that it's probably true.
 

yankspurs

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Thread starter #10
It's been rumoured that José has signed a contract with united which means that if LVG does stay in charge then United will have to pay Mourinho about five million pounds. It sounds so ridiculous that is probably true.
Yeah i remember reading that a while ago. Honestly, knowing United and this whole saga, im not discounting anything that sounds ridiculous and id probably give it more weight tbh. They've gone crazy post Fergie.
 

hughy

I'm SUPER cereal.
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#15
There will be as many CL winning managers in the Championship as there will be in the PL next season.


weird how nature do dat
 

WalkerboyUK

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#16
Leeds have appointed Garry Monk as boss.
They've had 6 different managers since Wilshere last managed a full 90 mins!!!
 

Hoops

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#17
The problem is there are more good managers than players.

Poch Mourinho Pep Conte Klopp Wenger Koeman

How are they going to fill up their squads ignoring PSG, Munich Madrid and Barca players?
 

WalkerboyUK

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Messages
14,676
#19
The problem is there are more good managers than players.

Poch Mourinho Pep Conte Klopp Wenger Koeman

How are they going to fill up their squads ignoring PSG, Munich Madrid and Barca players?
Not only that, but only 3 of the above can offer CL football next season...
 
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