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The road not taken

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
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'The road not taken' is the title of a poem by Robert Frost that looks at whether we can ever know whether an action was the right one when faced with alternatives like which path to take at a fork in the woods.You reach a crossroads, you make a decision and you stand or fall by the results. You never know what would have happened had you made a different decision and you rarely, if ever, have the chance to go back and take the other turning. If we get relegated we can say that Levy chose the wrong path. But he will say that we were going to get relegated anyway and he has, by his boldness , given us a chance.

The fact that we are still so close to the bottom three even after the turnaround achieved under Harry makes it clear to us all how close we were and still are to disaster. On current form over the last 6 matches we are third in the table (played 6,W4,D1,L1 ) and yet still only 1 point from the relegation positions.

I maintained a defiant belief that under Ramos we would not be relegated and that the kind of bold or rash action eventually adopted by Levy would further destabilise the club. Well, at the moment, this has not happened and some argue that because of our post Carling Cup form and the poor attitude of the players he might have acted earlier.

The truth is we simply don't know. Apparently Harry was approached two seasons ago but because he would not work under the DOF system he declined. Where would we be now if Harry had come earlier? Would we have won the Carling Cup? Would we be flirting with relegation or smooching with the Top Four?. Would we be looking for another new manager because results by now under Harry were deteriorating and he was not fulfilling Levy's criteria for success? Will this be the position this time next season assuming that Harry guides us to mid-table and perhaps some success in a cup?

We don't know. After the trauma of Martin Jol's and Juande Ramos' sacking Harry might get a little longer to achieve something, but I said that about Ramos. He might, but I am not putting much faith in Levy's patience or underestimating his drive for Tottenham success for whatever reasons.

You might argue that a little more research should have been done before Jol, our most successful manager for some time was sacked in so cavalier a fashion for Ramos. Juande had no experience outside Spain and could not speak English at the time of his appointment. Hindsight, hindsight wherefore art thou hindsight?

What might Jol or Ramos have achieved given more time? What would have happened if we had refused Keane or Berbatov permission to move? Would we have done better to stand by Robinson? We don't know and never will. So far Levy's actions have been justified by events and the path he put us on appears to be leading us out of trouble.

Certainly the attitude of the players has improved, at least in interviews. On the pitch, the Fulham game shows how little we have changed in effort and spirit. But there has been a gradual improvement in the standard of performance, signs of which appeared under Ramos: against Chelsea, Stoke and Hull for example. Bent,Lennon,Modric and Huddleston have all been transformed and attribute it to Harry. Bale and Bentley have yet to respond, but as the individuals improve so, hopefully, will the team.

Against Blackburn according to Ledley we 'ground out a result' but in fact they offered little and it was more a case of us not taking our chances to make the game safe. It was the tension of the fans because of our precarious position and our uncertainty about Gomes that made the game seem closer than it really was. A situation that you would think Spurs fans had become accustomed to over the years.

So the Jury is still out on whether Levy was bold and decisive over the appointment of Harry Redknapp or rash and impetuous. Unfortunately, for my nerves, it might still be out until after Xmas. Please Santa send us a few more points, well quite a lot more actually.
 

onthetwo

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2006
4,583
3,407
I think we will finish mid-table at worst this year so given the situation when harry came in, you'd have to be happy with that. Anything in the cups is a bonus this year. The squad is competitive as the uefa performances have shown, so we don't need big changes in jan or the summer. I'd expect us to be pushing for top-4 next year, but competition will get harder again as it always does. Levy should be happy with that as should the fans.
 

PT

North Stand behind Pat's goal.
Admin
May 21, 2004
25,468
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One of your points is perhaps the most valid and you've alluded to player attitude. This trait in a player and in particular, the squad as a sum total has decimated morale and performance on the pitch for almost one full season spread over a year.

As Redknapp pointed out; they are all good players and playing well under their own personal standards. Man management, change of scenery, whatever - the players have responded to a boss coming in and telling it how it is.

We still have those same players though so if Harry can get in their minds and understand them as people, we may well see yet, some serious re-sculpting of the team.
 

dontcallme

SC Supporter
Mar 18, 2005
33,987
81,919
Good column like always. I think too many people including myself weren't taking relegation under Ramos seriously.

Unfortunately managers don't get the same time anymore but I believe knows what is going on inside our club pretty well and more often than not he makes the right decision even if the timing is always a bit off.

The fact that we've been solid but unspectacular since defeat to Fulham shows to me our spirit has improved a little.
 

Lucky22

Active Member
Dec 11, 2006
710
160
A decent read, but, even as you admit yourself, a bit pointless as we will never know the answers to the many questions posed.

However, one thing did spring out for me and that was your stats that, on current form using the last six results, we would be in third but instead remain rooted in a relegation fight. For me that is evidence of the importance of having the turnaround under Redknapp rather than having stuck with Ramos. Again, we will never know for sure, but how many of us think we looked capable of winning a game, not to mention quite a few, with Ramos under control. Think how far adrift we could have been had we not started to get points on the board! How much 'in the mire' we would have been had we not won those games against Bolton and Liverpool and got a draw at Arsenal. It is so tight at the bottom, but the fact remains that we are getting points on the board and that can only be a good thing.

For me, it is high time fans like you started looking to the future and stop harking back to 'what might have been...'. Learn lessons from the past and use them, yes. But all this, Harry's not really a saviour and given time Ramos would have done better stuff is not productive at all.

As they say, cry me a river, build me a bridge and GET OVER IT!!
 

Jonesey

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2004
695
391
Jeez are you on downer medication or what? What a bollocks article.

Harry has undoubtedly revitalised the whole club, let alone the players, and undoubtedly saved us from certain relegation.

The players have more or less said it; Ramos was not even close to being a good man-manager who can get the best out of his players - and coupled with the fact that he played many of them out of position we were heading for disaster.

Jeez, 8 wins, one loss and one draw in just over a month is incredible form for any club let alone one with as poor form as we'd had since FEBRUARY.

What more do some of you lot want.
 

striebs

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
4,504
667
OK we are 3rd in the form book but there is almost always a new manager bounce and the samplesize is too few games to start drawing conclusions from just yet .

I reckon Harry will get us a top half finish but it is so tight that at least one of the relegation slots is likely to be decided by squad strength when the injuries start kicking in .

I'd have taken Redknapp or Hughes in preference to Ramos anytime .

Did anyone enjoy going to the Lane under Ramos ?
 

martinj

Member
Dec 6, 2006
84
68
Ramos was unquestionably a good manager at Seville and, given time, a grasp of english and the purchase of a few more players could have done great things at spurs, we will never know BUT what we do know is that on 25th October we were well at the bottom of the table with team morale at an all time low and were a long way away from any kind of recovery. The evidence of the games since harry took over demonstrate how even a masive improvement in form only brought us back to level terms with the rest of the lower teams. If ramos had taken much longer to pull things together we could have been too far out of reach as this season there are no whipping boys in the prem. If we had been relegated the financial and recruitment implications would have been devastating. Look at how hard it is to keep Berbatov or recruit Arshavin etc without champions league competition and only £ 60,000 per week.
Now imagine the same scenario with no premiership, no euefa, trips to doncaster and barnsley and £ 15,000 a week. I respect what levy did because it was too dangerous to risk any more games under ramos. Now as to the question of whether harry is as good or will take us as far the jury is still out. Harry has worked wonders with modest funds at W Ham and pompey, has a great track record for finding good players at bargain prices, is credited with turning around the careers of many players who had become stale, demotivated or unconfident elsewhere and has enough tactical nous and motivational ability to win big games against top opposition. Now, for the first time he has a reasonable budget to buy players with so I am excited to see what he can do for us.
When I get my crystal ball and ask it "Which spurs manager would have achieved the most had they not been replaced ?" it may reply " Christian Gross, Ossie Ardiles or Peter Shreeves" but that knowledge will make no difference to the fact that we now have a potentially great manager who is doing an excellent job and may do far more. Go on Harry
 

pierreb

New Member
Dec 28, 2005
139
0
What we do need above all is to have a manager in for long enough for him to build for the future. Levy must take a lot if not most of the responsiblity for this not having happened.
 

Cruyff

Active Member
Jan 28, 2005
575
358
Fairly pointless article but thanks for reminding me how poor we were against Fulham, a game which highlighted just how much work there is still to do and also how many of the players still lack the required mentality let alone ability. There are no quick solutions or answers but doing something about central midfield - about 3/4 years ago - may have been a good start. We've been fairly dross there since Carrick & Davids and it tends to be the area where games can be won or lost.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
Since even the most dementedly optimistic of us were thinking we'd do well to get just six points from those six games (and that assumed three from Bolton, which seemed no sinecure) the answer seems clear. Not only had it become abundantly and depressingly apparent that Ramos didn't know what he was doing, it had become equally obvious that no-one else did either. In fact, the writing on the wall was there well before the end of last season; we ignored it because we'd won a cup.

Here's another alternative reality. Palop didn't score a last-gasp equaliser in Donetsk in the round of 16 two seasons ago, leaving no extra time for Sevilla to scrape through in. We play our quarter-final against Shakhtar, and Ramos doesn't acquire his ludicrously overblown reputation as a manager. As a result, our board doesn't go rushing off to look for a crock of gold at the rainbow's end, only for it to turn out to be a crock of something else entirely, and Martin Jol doesn't start the next season with the impediment of a knife jammed firmly between his shoulder-blades.

We're not out of shit creek yet, but at least we've retrieved our paddle.

And, one hopes, Little Dan Levy has finally learned his lesson.

(As a sideline, how pleasing to see that Comolli has had a truly dynamic effect on St. Etienne's slide.)
 

JoeT

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2005
3,813
935
Coach Redknapp has done a great job, and - i'm going to make an obvious statement here really - as long as we keep winning more games than we lose, the steady improvement should continue......because winning not only gains points, but continues to build BELIEF with the players.
However the real Redknapp 'revolution' will become more apparent in January; what positions will he try to improve? and who will he try to bring in in those positions?
I must admit that, when left-wing improvement is put forward as one of the team's priorities, and Stuart Downing for 11 million pounds is being speculated it sounded like the same old same old, and more like a Levy idea then a Redknapp one.
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
No more of 'revolutions' and managers 'working their magic', thanks. We've had quite enough of that hyperbolic cock, I think, and evolution and a manager who actually knows what he's about will do me just fine.

If Downing's anyone's idea, it's probably that of a Mirror hack with a deadline to meet.
 

Jenko

Well-Known Member
Mar 18, 2004
5,290
4,157
Jeez are you on downer medication or what? What a bollocks article.

Harry has undoubtedly revitalised the whole club, let alone the players, and undoubtedly saved us from certain relegation.

The players have more or less said it; Ramos was not even close to being a good man-manager who can get the best out of his players - and coupled with the fact that he played many of them out of position we were heading for disaster.

Jeez, 8 wins, one loss and one draw in just over a month is incredible form for any club let alone one with as poor form as we'd had since FEBRUARY.

What more do some of you lot want.

Ha Ha, I had to laugh when i read this, because you're right. I had, up until that point agreed with the article. But you're argument is better, hands down. Ramos has talent but it wasn't the right talent for the premier league, language, man management, whatever, he was taking us down.

I'm happy redknapp is there, but still less confident than when Jol was there, mainly because next year it'll be the top 5 with city and we're never beating 2 of them to get 4th spot. Its taking a shine off my optimism for sure...
 

DC_Boy

New Member
May 20, 2005
17,608
5
I'm very happy with Harry so far - and think that Levy did the right thing in acting quickly to bring him in

interestingly though Harry's record in his first ten games is very similar to JR's

both got us up the lge (tho Harry was starting from a worse position)

both turned us round in the UEFA after an initial defeat and both won games in the Carling -

naturally it's going to be a lot more instructive as to their relative records after their respective first 30 games - but so far there are uncanny similarities
 

SpurSince57

Well-Known Member
Jan 20, 2006
45,213
8,229
I'm very happy with Harry so far - and think that Levy did the right thing in acting quickly to bring him in

interestingly though Harry's record in his first ten games is very similar to JR's

both got us up the lge (tho Harry was starting from a worse position)

both turned us round in the UEFA after an initial defeat and both won games in the Carling -

naturally it's going to be a lot more instructive as to their relative records after their respective first 30 games - but so far there are uncanny similarities

Not quite, DC. Ramos had a series of relatively easy games up until Arsenal—beating Pompey away probably being the high spot.
 
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