The Rugby Thread

[talkshowhost86]

I don't see the big deal seeing as they're not going to get any real minutes, most will get none. They'll be gone by tomorrow evening. I suppose Gats is selfish in the sense that he knows this will be his last Lions tour and he doesn't really care about people saying it disrespects the jersey or whatever.

Also, Gareth Davies is actually decent.

We've picked players based on midweek performances. So picking crap for the midweek games makes the whole thing a bit daft.

None of those guys deserve to be there and it's a farce.

Pick the best players or don't be the coach.

 

[DaiT]

Yep, I think they even separate kids by weight as well as so you don't have massive kids against tiny kids as, like you say, the emphasis is on ball skills. Go and watch some grass roots Stuff over here and they get them into rucks and tackles early on whereas in NZ non contact is played right up until they're 11 or so. Our kids get involved in mass mauls of about 100 kids of about 6 or 7.

Re the hooker point, and he's a back up to Dane Coles who skills wise is twice as good as Cuthbert, for example.

They have to separate by weight because the Polynesian kids are so much bigger. My son went to school with David Tua's son David Tua - heaveyweight boxer) Tua's son was playing on the wing at the age of 14 for his schools first team most of whom would be 18/19 years of age. The Polynesian races mature at a much earlier age.

 

[DaiT]

We've barely seen Faletau with ball in hand at all. Not his fault but a sign of how dominant the ABs have been.

I thought Faletau played well. AWJ was off the pace for me and Itoje has to start next Saturday.
Warbs will be back as well.
Davies and Williams also played well.
Farrell will be better next week.
Webb needs to come on a bit earlier I think.

All in all the 4 welshies were pretty good and the Irish were okay but the Sais......... No I am only joking.

The sad thing was to see a team switch off and assume the AB's were going to kick the penalty. The Kiwi commentators were almost shouting that the AB's were going to take a tap and go - it's a wonder someone did not hear them.

I think the Lions can and will improve. The game should have been a lot closer than it was.

We can win the second test and I would so effing love it if we won the series by beating them at Eden Park where the haven't lost for eons. I will donate 100 quid to the SC coffers if that happens.

Loosing Crotty and Smith will weaken the AB's a bit - Ben Smith is just one of those players who seems to be able to avoid tackles and makes defenders look stupid.

I have a question which I hope you or someone else can help me with - the lions were never able to maul the ball from a lineout even if the catch etc was good. The AB's do something to stop it before it can really get going so there is never any question in the referee's eyes that a maul had formed. I have seen them do it against other teams as well.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

One thing I would do is reduce the amount of box kicking. It rarely works and just gives the ball back to the ABs. Attack them with ball in hand.

 

[DaiT]

One thing I would do is reduce the amount of box kicking. It rarely works and just gives the ball back to the ABs. Attack them with ball in hand.

I agree with that philosophy but i dont think we have the skill level. We have to box kick to get territory and hope they make a mistake and if they dont that our defense is good enough.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I thought Faletau played well.

He did well defensively certainly (one of our better players in that regard actually) and as I said, the fact that we didn't see him with ball in hand wasn't his fault, we just didn't get it/weren't able to get it to him in the right areas so we couldn't see the pace and power and skills that some have talked about in this thread.

I think having Billy V would have helped in a game like that because sometimes you need someone to simply do it on their own, and he would have been able to put us more on the front foot with some of his running power, even if it's just a few metres every time.

Having said that, I still think we'd have lost, and it doesn't matter which players play if you can't get them some time with ball in hand.

 

[talkshowhost86]

One thing I would do is reduce the amount of box kicking. It rarely works and just gives the ball back to the ABs. Attack them with ball in hand.

If we're going to do that we may as well go the whole hog and play the quickest and most athletic team possible.

Something like:

15. Williams
14. Watson
13. JJ (would be very harsh on Davies but JJ is the quicker of the two)
12. Farrell
11. Daly
10. Biggar (more creative than Sexton)
9. Webb
8. Stander
7. Tipuric
6. Faletau
5. Lawes
4. Itoje
3. Sinckler
2. George
1. Mako

Can't really see that happening though!

 

[E17yid]

Thinking about it, and going purely on form, Kruis and AWJ should be dropped from the 23.

Thing is, it should be a no brainer, Lawes and Itoje have been the best locks on tour but I'm not convinced on them as a partnership but also, who do we have on the bench as a game changer?

With that in mind I think Itoje and Henderson with Lawes on the bench is the best option but it's not like Henderson has set the world alight but he was pretty decent in his last game IIRC.

I guess it's see how it goes tomorrow. If Lawes and Henderson play the full 80 then it's unlikely. Lawes deserves a test tart (or at least a sub appearance) more than anyone on the tour. Mind you, so does Biggar but I wouldn't start him over Farrel and Farrel wasn't even that great on Saturday. It's tough as ultimately, while current form is important, you're not just going to go on that alone.

I'd drop George, though, front row got done and he didn't do much to convince me he deserves another crack. See how Best goes tomorrow but it's Owens for me. No way Tipuric gets on the bench over Warbs. If Sam was fit i'd be tempted to drop POM and SOB for Warbs and Tips.

 

[E17yid]

1. McGrath
2. Owens
3. Furlong
4. Itoje
5. Henderson
6. POM
7. Tips
8. Faletau
9. Webb
10. Farrell
11. Daly
12. Te'o
13. Davies
14. Watson
15. Williams

Bench - Vunipola, George, Sinkler, Lawes, Warbs, Murray, Sexton, North.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

I'm not making big changes based on that one Test, when, frankly, no-one was good enough. The same team for me, except Itoje for AWJ, with Lawes on the bench. I may change one flanker.
Unless someone else has a stormer tomorrow, that's it.

 

[E17yid]

I'm not making big changes based on that one Test, when, frankly, no-one was good enough. The same team for me, except Itoje for AWJ, with Lawes on the bench. I may change one flanker.
Unless someone else has a stormer tomorrow, that's it.

I think it's harsh to tar the whole team with the same brush. Kruis, over 80m, was far worse than say Davies, Daly, Watson, Faletau etc etc.

The second row needs to be looked but then I'm a fan of second chances and I know Gatland likes to get players riled up when they've been outmatched physically so Kruis may keep his spot.

 

[E17yid]

We've picked players based on midweek performances. So picking crap for the midweek games makes the whole thing a bit daft.

None of those guys deserve to be there and it's a farce

Pick the best players or don't be the coach.

Harsh on Davies.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Lawes substituted, Henderson stays on. Does that mean Lawes is pencilled in for Saturday? Henderson's played bloody well so far ...

 

[Arnoldtoo]

31-31 8 minutes left Lions down to 14 men and 1/2P drops a high kick behind the 10 metre line. Dork.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Lucky to draw a match they should comfortably have won. Not sure it makes a lot of difference to the Saturday squad / team.

Maybe North gets in instead of 1/2p, and Lawes seems to be more in Gatland's thoughts than Henderson.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Sounds like we might have won that game if Henderson had stayed on the pitch or if we actually had some quality replacements to bring on.

I think all we glean from that is that Lawes is ahead of Henderson in Gats' thinking for Saturday.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Sounds like we might have won that game if Henderson had stayed on the pitch or if we actually had some quality replacements to bring on.

I think all we glean from that is that Lawes is ahead of Henderson in Gats' thinking for Saturday.

He was unlucky to go off if you ask me, but the rule on dodgy tackles has seen too many people being punished unnecessarily this year.

Ian McGheech has Henderson on the bench for Saturday, along with Kruis and with Itoje / Lawes starting. I think I might go with that too. But Gatland, we'll see.

 

[talkshowhost86]

He was unlucky to go off if you ask me, but the rule on dodgy tackles has seen too many people being punished unnecessarily this year.

Ian McGheech has Henderson on the bench for Saturday, along with Kruis and with Itoje / Lawes starting. I think I might go with that too. But Gatland, we'll see.

I suppose the benefit of Henderson is that he covers the back row as well, so that might make sense.

I still think we should go with Kruis and Itoje together. Yes Kruis had a poor game in the first test, but it's a tried and tested combo that works extremely well 99% of the time. I think if you go Itoje and Lawes you perhaps lose some of the 'down and dirty' lock play that Kruis offers (whereas we picked two of those players for the first test).

I just still can't see where we pick up 15 points since the first test. Hopefully Farrell is back to full fitness, and hopefully Gatland picks some subs who can actually make a (positive) impact, but even then I think a heavier defeat is more likely than a win.

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Regarding the 15pt deficit, the Lions burned at least a couple of tries that were there for the taking. Farrell missed at least one kick that you'd expect him to make as well. I get that the ABs dominated large stretches of general play -- reflected in possession and territory stats -- but, even so, had the Lions finished off even half of the opportunities that they created they'd have been in it up to their eyeballs.

I don't think Gatland and co need to reinvent the wheel. They did a lot of things right, IMO. Just need more efficiency.

(From a NZer.)

 

[Arnoldtoo]

I suppose the benefit of Henderson is that he covers the back row as well, so that might make sense.

I still think we should go with Kruis and Itoje together. Yes Kruis had a poor game in the first test, but it's a tried and tested combo that works extremely well 99% of the time. I think if you go Itoje and Lawes you perhaps lose some of the 'down and dirty' lock play that Kruis offers (whereas we picked two of those players for the first test).

I just still can't see where we pick up 15 points since the first test. Hopefully Farrell is back to full fitness, and hopefully Gatland picks some subs who can actually make a (positive) impact, but even then I think a heavier defeat is more likely than a win.

One thing I noticed today was the comparative rarity of Lions box kicking. I know I've got a thing about it, but denying the ABs 'free' ball that they were gobbling up last week reduces their scoring chances. Increasing the tempo and keeping the ball in hand increases our scoring chances.

Result? A slightly narrower win for the AB's!

Trust me; we'll be beating them by the time the 4th Test comes around.