The Rugby Thread

[tototoner]

Jeez who selected those rigs for the Ireland SA game

 

[talkshowhost86]

Wales have been a disorganised nonsense.

Quite fun to watch though.

 

[TheChosenOne]

38-3 Ireland.

COYBIG x3

 

[talkshowhost86]

Wales were absolutely shambolic but still looked okay.

If Gatland can get them all doing the right thing they’ll be a good team.

I still really don’t see what Halfpenny adds though, particularly when he’s missing kicks.

 

[E17yid]

Rugby is shit anyway.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I see Wales have recalled Jamie Roberts. I think that may be Gatland's default response to any defeat

Seriously though I wish he'd sod off (Gatland I mean). Quins have got about 30 players (not actually an exaggeration...we have 5 scrum halves all injured!) out at the moment so we hardly need Jamie sitting doing sod all with Wales for a week.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I've just watched a video of the Mike Brown incident in the Argentina game (probably the most exciting thing that happened in the 80 minutes).

I'm still not quite sure how the ref reached a decision of yellow card for the Argentinean player. Surely it was either taking someone out in the air (straight red) or a fair contest (penalty at most). I think the fact that the Argie player pulls Brown down on the way down was what made him land on his face, but considering the player was blocked off by Watson on the way to the ball it would seem very harsh to give a red.

Maybe the ref realised that in this situation the 'letter of the law' approach to the laws wasn't going to work, so just went with the mid-point of a yellow.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

I've just watched a video of the Mike Brown incident in the Argentina game (probably the most exciting thing that happened in the 80 minutes).

I'm still not quite sure how the ref reached a decision of yellow card for the Argentinean player. Surely it was either taking someone out in the air (straight red) or a fair contest (penalty at most). I think the fact that the Argie player pulls Brown down on the way down was what made him land on his face, but considering the player was blocked off by Watson on the way to the ball it would seem very harsh to give a red.

Maybe the ref realised that in this situation the 'letter of the law' approach to the laws wasn't going to work, so just went with the mid-point of a yellow.

Stuart Barnes was adamant that it was just a penalty, so I was in full support of a different decision purely as a point of principle.

Red, it wasn't. Yellow ... probably fair with the onus seemingly so much on avoiding even the possibility of injury.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Stuart Barnes was adamant that it was just a penalty, so I was in full support of a different decision purely as a point of principle.

Red, it wasn't. Yellow ... probably fair with the onus seemingly so much on avoiding even the possibility of injury.

Fortunately I was watching it in a pub so didn't get the benefit of Barnes' 'wisdom'.

The problem with these situations under the high ball is that players have so little time to react. The Argentina guy does actually hook him under the arm and pull him down, but I don't think anyone can say he did it on purpose. Not sure it's any less 'on purpose' than when Daly was sent off against Argentina last year though. If they are going on the outcome (which seems to be their general approach) then I'm not quite sure how it wasn't a red as it's a foul in the air that causes the opposition player to fall on his head and neck.

Just interesting how they all ref these things completely differently. I reckon you could take 10 refs looking at that situation and get a complete mix of decisions.

 

[E17yid]

I see Wales have recalled Jamie Roberts. I think that may be Gatland's default response to any defeat

Seriously though I wish he'd sod off (Gatland I mean). Quins have got about 30 players (not actually an exaggeration...we have 5 scrum halves all injured!) out at the moment so we hardly need Jamie sitting doing sod all with Wales for a week.

We’re short of centres asit is but with Davies out we’re really short.

Scott Williams should be called up, though.

 

[mpickard2087]

I've just watched a video of the Mike Brown incident in the Argentina game (probably the most exciting thing that happened in the 80 minutes).

I'm still not quite sure how the ref reached a decision of yellow card for the Argentinean player. Surely it was either taking someone out in the air (straight red) or a fair contest (penalty at most). I think the fact that the Argie player pulls Brown down on the way down was what made him land on his face, but considering the player was blocked off by Watson on the way to the ball it would seem very harsh to give a red.

Maybe the ref realised that in this situation the 'letter of the law' approach to the laws wasn't going to work, so just went with the mid-point of a yellow.

The referee looked at the footage and somehow concluded that Brown landed on his shoulder..... ...... and so decided it was only a yellow card.

As you say it was a borderline call, at first it was a fair challenge but then he does hook/pull Brown's arm which tips him over landing face first. Not an easy one at all but if it's interpreted as a foul then it had to be a red card.

I think rookie ref just didn't want to give a red card on his big day out.

 

[talkshowhost86]

The referee looked at the footage and somehow concluded that Brown landed on his shoulder..... ...... and so decided it was only a yellow card.

As you say it was a borderline call, at first it was a fair challenge but then he does hook/pull Brown's arm which tips him over landing face first. Not an easy one at all but if it's interpreted as a foul then it had to be a red card.

I think rookie ref just didn't want to give a red card on his big day out.

Ah is that the reason he gave in the end? Mike Brown must have his shoulder in a weird place if that was the call!

Looking at it again I think you're interpretation is right. It's initially a fair contest, but on the way down he illegally pulls him to the ground which, as it resulted in Brown being knocked unconscious, should really have been a red card.

I'm glad it wasn't a red because it would have ruined the game as a contest, but if the authorities are going to back themselves into these corners with such stringent laws, then they need to put them into practice.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Jonathan Davies out until after the 6 nations. Huge blow for Wales and leaves them with a big gap now.

 

[mpickard2087]

Ah is that the reason he gave in the end? Mike Brown must have his shoulder in a weird place if that was the call!

Looking at it again I think you're interpretation is right. It's initially a fair contest, but on the way down he illegally pulls him to the ground which, as it resulted in Brown being knocked unconscious, should really have been a red card.

I'm glad it wasn't a red because it would have ruined the game as a contest, but if the authorities are going to back themselves into these corners with such stringent laws, then they need to put them into practice.

The most puzzling bit for me is you have Nigel Owens as touch judge, who wasn't afraid all game to chime in and discuss certain things with his junior colleague, but on that one he was silent. I'd have thought that was the moment where you'd want him to be going 'mate, I think you need to have another look at that...'. Maybe he decided that he had to let him make a big decision for himself.

But yes, you don't want to see red cards but in a situation like that if it is deemed to be foul play then it makes a bit of a mockery of the laws and their desire to protect players against head injuries.

 

[talkshowhost86]

I do wonder what these strict rules around contact in the air will mean for the box-kick generally.

I think we'll get to a point where players are coached simply not to challenge until the catching player is on the floor (which should really be being coached now anyway) at which point the emphasis may well move to distance on the kick rather than height.

 

[talkshowhost86]

On a more general point around the internationals, I think if you were going to name a favourite for the 6Ns at the moment you'd have to go with Ireland.

Obviously we'll know a bit more by the end of the month, but I'd say that win against (an admittedly poor) South Africa really set down a marker, and when you consider they've also beaten England and New Zealand in the last 12 months or so they really look to be flying at the moment.

I just worry for Ireland whether they are going to peak too early, again, for the World Cup.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

The most puzzling bit for me is you have Nigel Owens as touch judge, who wasn't afraid all game to chime in and discuss certain things with his junior colleague, but on that one he was silent. I'd have thought that was the moment where you'd want him to be going 'mate, I think you need to have another look at that...'. Maybe he decided that he had to let him make a big decision for himself.

But yes, you don't want to see red cards but in a situation like that if it is deemed to be foul play then it makes a bit of a mockery of the laws and their desire to protect players against head injuries.

We do have to remember that the Sky commentators, whether you disagree with them or not, thought it wasn't even a yellow card, and that was after numerous replays. Your opinion is that it was a definite red and a bottle job by a rookie referee, but an opinion is all it is.

 

[talkshowhost86]

We do have to remember that the Sky commentators, whether you disagree with them or not, thought it wasn't even a yellow card, and that was after numerous replays. Your opinion is that it was a definite red and a bottle job by a rookie referee, but an opinion is all it is.

But did they say it should have been a penalty?

 

[mpickard2087]

We do have to remember that the Sky commentators, whether you disagree with them or not, thought it wasn't even a yellow card, and that was after numerous replays. Your opinion is that it was a definite red and a bottle job by a rookie referee, but an opinion is all it is.

My point is that although it was a tricky call, if you interpret that it is a foul, as the ref did, then it has to be a red card as he has landed on his head. I don't see how he concluded that Brown landed on his shoulder and so only a yellow card - hence my suspicion he did bottle a very big decision and played it a bit safe. It was either fair contest and play on, or foul play and red card.

As for Sky, if Barnes says something is x then it is probably y. The guy is awful. He did a substantial replay analysis at one point where he was fellating Slade for standing at 1st receiver and running the game over several phases, which was neat analysis if it hadn't actually been Ford...

 

[Arnoldtoo]

But did they say it should have been a penalty?

Yes.