The Rugby Thread

mpickard2087

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Disagree about weakening our defence. JJ is a very good defender and better covering wider channels than Te'o, which is where Italy were targeting us and Wales will I assume look to as well. I'd be disappointed if we were caught so narrow again.
 

E17yid

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Wales still 4-1, which I think is daft. I've got money on them.
It’s not daft. We’re missing 7 lions who would be walking into our starting 15. We’re playing you away too. A tad generous perhaps but daft? Certainly not.

The only thing is Gatland has won 3 times at Twickenham which pisses all over other coaches records so he knows how to win there but, like I say, the injuries we have makes this an extremely big ask.

Mind you I suppose we had Gareth Davies on the wing when we knocked you out of the WC in 2015 but you had Lancaster then.
 

talkshowhost86

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Disagree about weakening our defence. JJ is a very good defender and better covering wider channels than Te'o, which is where Italy were targeting us and Wales will I assume look to as well. I'd be disappointed if we were caught so narrow again.
I disagree about JJ being a very good defender, as in the last couple of years he's had a tendency to miss a few simple tackles.

You might be right about the wide channels though, particularly as that's his natural position whereas Te'o is a 12. As you say it would be very disappointing if we were caught the same way again.
 

talkshowhost86

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Joseph normally causes us problems and Te’o is a great option off the bench so good call from Jones IMO.

I know Ford is playing well but you have the option to take him off and move Farrel to 10 with Te’o coming on in his preferred 12 position.

Reckon we can get at that front row, though. Especially the scrum. That pack in general though is a very well oiled machine.

England are a bitch as they can play a nitty gritty dirty game and win but they can throw it about and cause any team problems and win that way. Part of the reason why they’re the 2nd best in the world at the moment. Going to be an interesting game.
Will be interesting in the front row.

Mako held up well against a traditionally strong Italy scrum, and Dan Cole had one of his best scrummaging days for a while. Meanwhile, the Wales scrum didn't really get a massive edge against a very weak Scotland front line until the subs for Scotland came on (who must be about their 9th or 10th choices at this stage).

But I think everyone was very focused on getting the ball in and out of the scrum very quickly last week anyway, so I do actually wonder how important it will be. Two pretty experienced sets of bruisers either way you look at it.

It's interesting that England are starting with the more expansive team, with the option, as you say, to close it down a bit later on with Te'o and Wigglesworth and even Underhill to smash the fuck out of anyone he sees. Not the traditional way round certainly, but will be interesting to see if we go down that route.
 

talkshowhost86

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It’s not daft. We’re missing 7 lions who would be walking into our starting 15. We’re playing you away too. A tad generous perhaps but daft? Certainly not.

The only thing is Gatland has won 3 times at Twickenham which pisses all over other coaches records so he knows how to win there but, like I say, the injuries we have makes this an extremely big ask.

Mind you I suppose we had Gareth Davies on the wing when we knocked you out of the WC in 2015 but you had Lancaster then.
I think whilst the injuries are obviously an issue for Wales, in a way it's helped by effectively forcing Gatland to play the Scarlets team which is arguably a more cohesive unit than the Welsh team we saw in the last 6Ns.

I do wonder actually which of those injured players would actually walk back into the team. I think Faletau certainly would, and JD in the centres. Who are the others from the 7 that you've listed? Webb, North, Williams, Biggar and Warburton?

Now I want you to read this as praise rather than belittling the injury issues E17 but:

1. Is Webb much ahead of Davies at the moment? Plus with the WRFU effectively binning Webb for the world cup I'm not sure he'd get picked ahead of an inform Davies.

2. North/Williams - I don't think both of these two get back into the squad. Presumably BorePenny stays at full back, and I don't think you drop Evans who looks electric at the moment. Williams would easily get my vote.

3. Biggar is another interesting one as again I think Patchell is the form-player in terms of club rugby (although I know that doesn't mean the same in Wales). With neither of them needing to worry about kicking (where Biggar has the edge) you then have to go with the more creative 10. I don't think it's a shoe in that Biggar wins that at the moment.

4. Whilst I know Warburton is some sort of a god in Wales, if I was Shingler and Navidi I'd be fairly upset if it was simply assumed that Warburton would take either of their places the way they've been playing. Afterall they both keep the greatest player to have never played on the bench, so I think Gatland rates them both very highly.

So I think it's doing a bit of a dis-service to the existing Wales team to say all those people would walk back in. Mind you it would certainly make the wider squad considerably stronger.
 

E17yid

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I think whilst the injuries are obviously an issue for Wales, in a way it's helped by effectively forcing Gatland to play the Scarlets team which is arguably a more cohesive unit than the Welsh team we saw in the last 6Ns.

I do wonder actually which of those injured players would actually walk back into the team. I think Faletau certainly would, and JD in the centres. Who are the others from the 7 that you've listed? Webb, North, Williams, Biggar and Warburton?

Now I want you to read this as praise rather than belittling the injury issues E17 but:

1. Is Webb much ahead of Davies at the moment? Plus with the WRFU effectively binning Webb for the world cup I'm not sure he'd get picked ahead of an inform Davies.

2. North/Williams - I don't think both of these two get back into the squad. Presumably BorePenny stays at full back, and I don't think you drop Evans who looks electric at the moment. Williams would easily get my vote.

3. Biggar is another interesting one as again I think Patchell is the form-player in terms of club rugby (although I know that doesn't mean the same in Wales). With neither of them needing to worry about kicking (where Biggar has the edge) you then have to go with the more creative 10. I don't think it's a shoe in that Biggar wins that at the moment.

4. Whilst I know Warburton is some sort of a god in Wales, if I was Shingler and Navidi I'd be fairly upset if it was simply assumed that Warburton would take either of their places the way they've been playing. Afterall they both keep the greatest player to have never played on the bench, so I think Gatland rates them both very highly.

So I think it's doing a bit of a dis-service to the existing Wales team to say all those people would walk back in. Mind you it would certainly make the wider squad considerably stronger.
I’m speaking from Gatlands point of view really.

When Warburton is fit he’s straight in there. His leadership and experience counts for a lot, especially in these games. He’s also our captain. I’d have Tips though

Webb is just a better scrum half at the end of the day but it’s the only position where there isn’t a drop off but he starts all day.

Biggar/Patchell. Again Biggar walks it.

J.Davies is the best 13 in the world

Williams starts at 15 and North walks in over Adams.

I definitely take it as all positive though as we have some great players coming through and if we get everyone fit there’s genuine headaches for Gatland.

In my opinion Faletau, Webb, Warburton, North, Davies and Williams are world class with Biggar being an extremely good player. A country like Wales, with the limited pool of talent we have to pick from, can’t afford to miss those world class players. I mean, 4 of them are in the backs, that’s more than half with, like I say, J Davies being, arguably, the best in his position in the world. Now, if England miss a crucial player you have a million others to choose from who may not be as good but the drop off is not so bad.
 
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talkshowhost86

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I’m speaking from Gatlands point of view really.

When Warburton is fit he’s straight in there. His leadership and experience counts for a lot, especially in these games. He’s also our captain. I’d have Tips though

Webb is just a better scrum half at the end of the day but it’s the only position where there isn’t a drop off but he starts all day.

Biggar/Patchell. Again Biggar walks it.

J.Davies is the best 13 in the world

Williams starts at 15 and North walks in over Adams.

I definitely take it as all positive though as we have some great players coming through and if we get everyone fit there’s genuine headaches for Gatland.

In my opinion Faletau, Webb, Warburton, North, Davies and Williams are world class with Biggar being an extremely good player. A country like Wales, with the limited pool of talent we have to pick from, can’t afford to miss those world class players. I mean, 4 of them are in the backs, that’s more than half with, like I say, J Davies being, arguably, the best in his position in the world. Now, if England miss a crucial player you have a million others to choose from who may not be as good but the drop off is not so bad.
From that post my main takeaway is that you'd drop Halfpenny thus showing that you agreed with me all along.

:);)
 

E17yid

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From that post my main takeaway is that you'd drop Halfpenny thus showing that you agreed with me all along.

:);)
Ha ha. I said from Gats point of view. He showed in the lions he was favouring Williams at FB. Halfpenny didn’t get a look in.

I would too, though, you’re right (not about Halfpenny in general but I would drop him and play Williams if Liam was 100%)

If Steff Evans wasn’t the second coming of Shane Williams I’d have North and Liam on the wings with LH at 15 but Evans is showing he’s ready and is a special player and though LH isn’t exactly an impact sub he’s a great option/player to have on the bench to cover injury at 15,11 or 14 or to bring on when we’re under the kosh and need to protect a lead or as a amazing goal kicking option.
 

talkshowhost86

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Ha ha. I said from Gats point of view. He showed in the lions he was favouring Williams at FB. Halfpenny didn’t get a look in.

I would too, though, you’re right (not about Halfpenny in general but I would drop him and play Williams if Liam was 100%)

If Steff Evans wasn’t the second coming of Shane Williams I’d have North and Liam on the wings with LH at 15 but Evans is showing he’s ready and is a special player and though LH isn’t exactly an impact sub he’s a great option/player to have on the bench to cover injury at 15,11 or 14 or to bring on when we’re under the kosh and need to protect a lead or as a amazing goal kicking option.
I do love how the Welsh manage to keep things in perspective :ROFLMAO:

I think whether you pick Halfpenny or not depends on who's available at Fly Half. I'm not sure you'd want to rely on Patchell's kicking just yet (presumably he doesn't kick for the Scarlets at the moment) so if Biggar is out you probably want Halfpenny in the team.

In terms of ability outside the kicking game though, I'd probably go Williams, North, Evans, although I think there's a huge question mark hanging over North at the moment. He needs a big couple of performances for Wales before I'd be convinced he's back in on merit rather than reputation.
 

E17yid

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Jones putting Patchell at the center of his mind games I see.

I know he’s trying to take the pressure off England by saying we see ourselves as being on a self proclaimed roll but the way I see it most people have put our win over Scotland as them being shit rather than us being good.

He’s right about Patchell though, tbf. And a few others. It’s an inexperienced side going up against a very experienced side.
 

talkshowhost86

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Jones putting Patchell at the center of his mind games I see.

I know he’s trying to take the pressure off England by saying we see ourselves as being on a self proclaimed roll but the way I see it most people have put our win over Scotland as them being shit rather than us being good.

He’s right about Patchell though, tbf. And a few others. It’s an inexperienced side going up against a very experienced side.
Yeah it is a huge step up for Patchell.

Whilst he's played in big games for Scarlets, week in week out he's not always playing against the strongest teams available, and even when he is playing against first teams none of them will be as strong as the likes of England and Ireland.

I do think it massively helps an inexperienced Fly Half though when they don't have to kick points. I'm sure he'll be fine.
 

E17yid

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Yeah it is a huge step up for Patchell.

Whilst he's played in big games for Scarlets, week in week out he's not always playing against the strongest teams available, and even when he is playing against first teams none of them will be as strong as the likes of England and Ireland.

I do think it massively helps an inexperienced Fly Half though when they don't have to kick points. I'm sure he'll be fine.
It’s his biggest test no doubt.

I did chuckle when he said he’s going to have Farrel, Robshaw and Care at him. Farrel fair enough but if you’re bricking it at the thought of Robshaw and Care then you don’t deserve to play international rugby.
 

talkshowhost86

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It’s his biggest test no doubt.

I did chuckle when he said he’s going to have Farrel, Robshaw and Care at him. Farrel fair enough but if you’re bricking it at the thought of Robshaw and Care then you don’t deserve to play international rugby.
I'd be much more scared of Robshaw tackling me than Farrell to be honest. Other than the fact that Farrell does often go a bit 'rugby league', by which I mean a little bit towards the face.

Robshaw pretty much never misses a tackle, but agree that putting Care in the list was a bit odd!

My main concern as a Welsh player would be the potential for Underhill to come on and headbutt you to death...the crazy bastard.
 

E17yid

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I'd be much more scared of Robshaw tackling me than Farrell to be honest. Other than the fact that Farrell does often go a bit 'rugby league', by which I mean a little bit towards the face.

Robshaw pretty much never misses a tackle, but agree that putting Care in the list was a bit odd!

My main concern as a Welsh player would be the potential for Underhill to come on and headbutt you to death...the crazy bastard.
I don’t think he means by frame or tackling prowess I took it to mean these are top players who he’s going to have a hard time dealing with at this level. Farrel is a world class player. Robshaw is a great club man and solid enough and, like you say, is a decent tackler. Same with Care he’s a decent player but if you’re Rhys and getting ready for this massive task I wouldn’t be overly worried about those 2 in particular.
 

talkshowhost86

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I don’t think he means by frame or tackling prowess I took it to mean these are top players who he’s going to have a hard time dealing with at this level. Farrel is a world class player. Robshaw is a great club man and solid enough and, like you say, is a decent tackler. Same with Care he’s a decent player but if you’re Rhys and getting ready for this massive task I wouldn’t be overly worried about those 2 in particular.
I know I'm biased but I think that's a hugely unfair analysis of Robshaw.

He's been a mainstay in an England team that has lost 1 game in two years. He's continued to be picked by whoever is in charge because they know how important his work is to the team. Even Eddie who himself wrote him off a while ago has made him a must pick in a team full of stars.

As I say he never misses a tackle, has much better hands than most of the back rows who have been on the last two Lions tours and gets more turnovers than the press seem to give him credit for.

He's a bit of a victim of the lazy press who blamed him solely for our World Cup exit, even though we had much more serious issues than that back then and even though he was being played out of position the entire time.

I won't get into any comparisons with some of the other highly rated back rows in the Northern Hemisphere but England would be a much worse team without him.

I actually think Eddie is spot on in saying he's exactly the sort of player Patchell won't have had to deal with much previously.
 

Japhet

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I know I'm biased but I think that's a hugely unfair analysis of Robshaw.

He's been a mainstay in an England team that has lost 1 game in two years. He's continued to be picked by whoever is in charge because they know how important his work is to the team. Even Eddie who himself wrote him off a while ago has made him a must pick in a team full of stars.

As I say he never misses a tackle, has much better hands than most of the back rows who have been on the last two Lions tours and gets more turnovers than the press seem to give him credit for.

He's a bit of a victim of the lazy press who blamed him solely for our World Cup exit, even though we had much more serious issues than that back then and even though he was being played out of position the entire time.

I won't get into any comparisons with some of the other highly rated back rows in the Northern Hemisphere but England would be a much worse team without him.

I actually think Eddie is spot on in saying he's exactly the sort of player Patchell won't have had to deal with much previously.

My rugby coach from many years ago (he was an ex England International) used to say that if you were playing at 6 he didn't expect to see you for the entire game because he expected you to be at the bottom of every ruck. The game has changed enormously since those days and is so much more inclusive, but there's still an element of truth in what he said.
 

E17yid

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Fucking Eddie Jones. I draw the line at doing AWJ. Reported him to Workd Rugby. He’s such a hypocritical twat. I appreciate its more mind games but it’s funny how he thinks it’s ok when his own players do it but it’s out of order when we do it.

Funny how he’s saying we’re trying to influence Garces on Saturday and there’s not been a peep out of the Welsh camp all you can hear is Eddie moaning
 

talkshowhost86

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Fucking Eddie Jones. I draw the line at doing AWJ. Reported him to Workd Rugby. He’s such a hypocritical twat. I appreciate its more mind games but it’s funny how he thinks it’s ok when his own players do it but it’s out of order when we do it.

Funny how he’s saying we’re trying to influence Garces on Saturday and there’s not been a peep out of the Welsh camp all you can hear is Eddie moaning
Wow.

Eddie really does know how to get under the Welsh's skin :ROFLMAO:

For what it's worth I think he's right that AWJ shouldn't be anywhere near that situation. When a review is taking place he should be nowhere near the ref in any case.

But it's a stupid rule anyway. If the ref wants to take a review, it shouldn't be based on whether the kicker can kick it fast enough.

It's also laughable to report it to World Rugby.

So all in all...nobody comes out of this very well really.
 

E17yid

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Wow.

Eddie really does know how to get under the Welsh's skin :ROFLMAO:

For what it's worth I think he's right that AWJ shouldn't be anywhere near that situation. When a review is taking place he should be nowhere near the ref in any case.

But it's a stupid rule anyway. If the ref wants to take a review, it shouldn't be based on whether the kicker can kick it fast enough.

It's also laughable to report it to World Rugby.

So all in all...nobody comes out of this very well really.
But he didn’t even do anything. Scotland scored ref went to TMO, AWJ stood by the ball for about 5 seconds walked off before the TMO was consulted and that’s that. Eddie makes out that AWJ influenced the ref into looking at the TMO (which isn’t even wrong as he’s captain) like some footballer or whatever.

Jones has literally zero interest in winding up the Welsh public. He wants to get into individuals heads and G up his own squad.

Hes such an arrogant twat, though. Appreciate he’s a bit like Alli whereby you’d love him if he was your coach but hated by everyone else.
 
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