The Rugby Thread

[E17yid]

And where in Wales would you say rugby ranks on a scale of 'meh' to 'religion'?

Not saying you're totally wrong, incidentally, just that it's not as simple as resources.

Yeah, it’s our national sport but that is somewhat negated by the fact you have about 50mil more people than us. Perhaps that argument would hold more weight if Rugby was the 10th most popular sport in England but it’s your second sport after football so it doesn’t hold up.

 

[E17yid]

Discussing the introduction of central contracts is surely an attempt to "use resources better".

True, it does. But I think a lot of this has to be laid at management/directors and coaches too.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

Yeah, it’s our national sport but that is somewhat negated by the fact you have about 50mil more people than us. Perhaps that argument would hold more weight if Rugby was the 10th most popular sport in England but it’s your second sport after football so it doesn’t hold up.

And yet, whether it should or not, England's 2nd XV wouldn't beat Wales's first XV. There's got to be reasons. Most likely many of them.

 

[E17yid]

It’ll be interesting to see what Jones does for the SA tour. Gatland has already said AWJ isn’t going to USA and Argentina but he is 32. He’s also said a lot of our other big players won’t be going either.

I’d imagine Jones will do something similar but he doesn’t want to take a load of novices and lose the test series as then you’re looking back and thinking we’ve lost 5 of our last 6 or whatever.

Probably sensible to do a bit of both. Leave Itoje, Lawes, Farrel, Watson etc bring in the Currie bros, simmonds, Ewells, George, Ford, Daly and Billy V( if he’s fit)

 

[E17yid]

And yet, whether it should or not, England's 2nd XV wouldn't beat Wales's first XV. There's got to be reasons. Most likely many of them.

You’re right it’s certainly not black and white and I don’t want to come across like I know all the answers coz I most definitely don’t but what I would say is that, imo, a big reason why your second team wouldn’t beat our first team is because you’re not exposing enough players at international level. I believe you have the quality.

Actually, come to think about it, I wouldn’t even be confident, if every single English player was fit, (impossible I know) that we would be certainties to win. Rugby these days ensures that every country in every match is basically fielding a combination of 1st, 2nd, 3rd and sometimes 4th and 5th choice players anyway so I guess it’s hard to say.

 

[teok]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...mentally-fresher-players-says-jimmy-gopperth/

Wasps’ fly-half Jimmy Gopperth believes thatthe systems in New Zealand and Irelandleave players ‘mentally fresher’ to play international rugby. New Zealand-born Gopperth, 34, has played in all three systems, for the Hurricanes and Blues in Super Rugby before moving overseas for stints first at Newcastle and then at Leinster before signing for Wasps in 2015. The well-travelled playmaker has little doubt of the benefits for Test players in those set-ups.

“Those guys are mentally fresher for the simple reason that they get longer rest periods,”said Gopperth in response to the head of the players' union Damian Hopley calling in Monday'sTelegraph for discussion on the introduction of central contracts in England.

“The All Blacks clocked off for 14 weekswhen they finished their tour in Europe in November. Most of them only turned up for Super Rugby duty a week or so before that competition started last month. Of course they all had individual training programmes, little top-ups to do and as a professional you are never going to let yourself go.

"The upside is that that because you have been able to switch off, you come back really sharp and eager to go, mentally refreshed, he said." At Leinster, you’d only see the Ireland boys [such as a Johnny Sexton or Jamie Heaslip] for, say, 10 provincial games. That’s probably why the Irish teams are top of that European pile at the moment.

"It’s totally different here. The guys here have it tough. It’s the raw end of those sort of deals. Look at what someone like Owen Farrell has got to do. Saracens have got a Champions Cup quarter-final at Leinster in 10 days’ time so the club will probably want to play him this weekend, too, to get continuity, into the cup, back for the Premiership, off to South Africa, back for a World Cup season – well, good luck with that.”

Gopperth is quick to point out that Premiership directors of rugby, such as his own at Wasps, Dai Young, are very mindful of player welfare. Gopperth has just enjoyed a golf break in Tenerife while England players such as Joe Launchbury, James Haskell and Elliot Daly will have time off next week following Sunday’s Premiership game against Leicester as Wasps did not make it through to the Champions Cup knockout stages.

With a possible seven games left were Wasps to make it through to the Premiership final, the England players' appearances for their club stands at Haskell 16, Launchbury 14 and Daly nine.

“None of them get anywhere near the recommended total of 32 games,” said Young. “But yes, England did look flat and jaded against Ireland. Is that the fault of the system? Well, they won back-to-back titles in that self-same system the previous two years, one of them a Grand Slam. There’s a lot of factors in there.

"It’s true that Ireland have greater rest periods. You can’t hide from that. England missed some hugely influential players such as Billy Vunipola while when Nathan Hughes stepped up, he hadn’t played much and got injured himself. It’s not one thing feeding in.

"It’s a demanding set-up here. There’s not a game in the Premiership that doesn’t count for something, be it relegation, top six or seven for Europe, top four for the play-offs. The way that salary cap is set means that wages have gone up and we have had to trim our squads, from, 45 to 42 to 41 to 39 this season. I heard [Saracens'] Billy Vunipola say that he’d play for less money if it meant fewer games. I’ve not had many coming through my door saying that. Look, if England were like this for two or three more seasons, then you would probably have to look at the reasons why.”

 

[Thewobbler]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-u...mentally-fresher-players-says-jimmy-gopperth/

Wasps’ fly-half Jimmy Gopperth believes thatthe systems in New Zealand and Irelandleave players ‘mentally fresher’ to play international rugby. New Zealand-born Gopperth, 34, has played in all three systems, for the Hurricanes and Blues in Super Rugby before moving overseas for stints first at Newcastle and then at Leinster before signing for Wasps in 2015. The well-travelled playmaker has little doubt of the benefits for Test players in those set-ups.

“Those guys are mentally fresher for the simple reason that they get longer rest periods,”said Gopperth in response to the head of the players' union Damian Hopley calling in Monday'sTelegraph for discussion on the introduction of central contracts in England.

“The All Blacks clocked off for 14 weekswhen they finished their tour in Europe in November. Most of them only turned up for Super Rugby duty a week or so before that competition started last month. Of course they all had individual training programmes, little top-ups to do and as a professional you are never going to let yourself go.

"The upside is that that because you have been able to switch off, you come back really sharp and eager to go, mentally refreshed, he said." At Leinster, you’d only see the Ireland boys [such as a Johnny Sexton or Jamie Heaslip] for, say, 10 provincial games. That’s probably why the Irish teams are top of that European pile at the moment.

"It’s totally different here. The guys here have it tough. It’s the raw end of those sort of deals. Look at what someone like Owen Farrell has got to do. Saracens have got a Champions Cup quarter-final at Leinster in 10 days’ time so the club will probably want to play him this weekend, too, to get continuity, into the cup, back for the Premiership, off to South Africa, back for a World Cup season – well, good luck with that.”

Gopperth is quick to point out that Premiership directors of rugby, such as his own at Wasps, Dai Young, are very mindful of player welfare. Gopperth has just enjoyed a golf break in Tenerife while England players such as Joe Launchbury, James Haskell and Elliot Daly will have time off next week following Sunday’s Premiership game against Leicester as Wasps did not make it through to the Champions Cup knockout stages.

With a possible seven games left were Wasps to make it through to the Premiership final, the England players' appearances for their club stands at Haskell 16, Launchbury 14 and Daly nine.

“None of them get anywhere near the recommended total of 32 games,” said Young. “But yes, England did look flat and jaded against Ireland. Is that the fault of the system? Well, they won back-to-back titles in that self-same system the previous two years, one of them a Grand Slam. There’s a lot of factors in there.

"It’s true that Ireland have greater rest periods. You can’t hide from that. England missed some hugely influential players such as Billy Vunipola while when Nathan Hughes stepped up, he hadn’t played much and got injured himself. It’s not one thing feeding in.

"It’s a demanding set-up here. There’s not a game in the Premiership that doesn’t count for something, be it relegation, top six or seven for Europe, top four for the play-offs. The way that salary cap is set means that wages have gone up and we have had to trim our squads, from, 45 to 42 to 41 to 39 this season. I heard [Saracens'] Billy Vunipola say that he’d play for less money if it meant fewer games. I’ve not had many coming through my door saying that. Look, if England were like this for two or three more seasons, then you would probably have to look at the reasons why.”

Look at NFL players. How much time they get off each season. Rugby players imo take far more hits then those players do yet play so much more for little money.

22 clubs games, european games and internationals.

9 month season plus internationals.

 

[E17yid]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43490645

Brown has ruled out the possibility of English rugby moving to a central contract model - used by world champions New Zealand and Six Nations champions Ireland - in the near future, and believes the current structure is "optimal" for success.

Former head coach Sir Clive Woodward is among those to describe England's players as "out on their feet" during the Six Nations, citing a punishing schedule over the past year.

The RFU and the Premiership clubs are 18 months into an eight-year deal around payments and player access, with the players primarily contracted to their clubs.

"We won't have central contracts whilst there is an eight-year agreement in place," Brown said. "That agreement stands firm.

"There are elements that allow us to talk about player release, based on welfare of players, but it's not going to turn on its head and turn into central contracts overnight.

"Honestly, my personal opinion is the balance is about right. The key is to make sure there aren't too many matches. It's got the potential to be a very strong system."

 

[talkshowhost86]

As a club fan, I really don't want central contracts because it really does cheapen being a club fan when your best players can just be yanked from the team at any point.

Having said that, I think with the increased money in the club game, in England at least, matters will come to a head very soon as it's now not the case that the various RFUs are easily the most powerful forces in the game.

It's clearly not sustainable, and you just need to look at the number of injuries in the Premiership this year to see that (not just English players), but I'm not sure how it's going to change.

Worth pointing out that it's not the only reason England had problems. I think mistakes were genuinely made with selections etc, and certainly with tactics, so it would be wrong to suggest the only reason England were crap was because they were tired.

But it's clearly not a level playing field at the moment, and I think the RFU are really going to struggle to have their cake of a strong England team together with the 'eating it' of having a very strong national league.

 

[Arnoldtoo]

As a club fan, I really don't want central contracts because it really does cheapen being a club fan when your best players can just be yanked from the team at any point.

Don't worry, I don't think central contracts will impact too much on Quins.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Don't worry, I don't think central contracts will impact too much on Quins.

It does highlight some of the issues that Quins had 5 players in and around the squad despite being absolutely balls this year.

 

[E17yid]

Hard call between Quins and Ospreys for worst season, I’d probably say Ospreys and we had 5/6 in the Wales set up but different seeing as we, essentially, just picked the Scarlets 15.

I wonder if this Brad Shields Guy will go to SA in the summer or if his first England games will be in the Autumn. Will be funny if his first game is against NZ.

 

[Japhet]

Hard call between Quins and Ospreys for worst season, I’d probably say Ospreys and we had 5/6 in the Wales set up but different seeing as we, essentially, just picked the Scarlets 15.

I wonder if this Brad Shields Guy will go to SA in the summer or if his first England games will be in the Autumn. Will be funny if his first game is against NZ.

If Dave Ewers can get fully fit I reckon he'll push Shields very hard for the 6 shirt, always assuming that Eddie recognises that the back row needs a refurb.

 

[E17yid]

If Dave Ewers can get fully fit I reckon he'll push Shields very hard for the 6 shirt, always assuming that Eddie recognises that the back row needs a refurb.

I think that Shields Guy can play anywhere in the back row but typically plays at 6 but we’ll see.

With Underhill and Vunipola to come back along with this Shields guy you’ve certainly got the talent. Shields is only 25 as well I think and Underhill is still a baby. The only thing I’d worry about if I was an England fan would be the amount of Rugby Billy V has played in the last 2 years and whether he’ll come back the same player but with Hughes and Simmonds, again, you’ve got talent but you can’t really replace Vunipola.

 

[Japhet]

I think that Shields Guy can play anywhere in the back row but typically plays at 6 but we’ll see.

With Underhill and Vunipola to come back along with this Shields guy you’ve certainly got the talent. Shields is only 25 as well I think and Underhill is still a baby. The only thing I’d worry about if I was an England fan would be the amount of Rugby Billy V has played in the last 2 years and whether he’ll come back the same player but with Hughes and Simmonds, again, you’ve got talent but you can’t really replace Vunipola.

Hoping Billy V makes a full recovery. Bloody unlucky to break his arm so soon after a long lay off. Without him and Hughes I thought our game plan went to pot. We rely heavily on a big ball carrier at 8 to get us on the front foot and we couldn't do it with Simmonds. The squad needs changing up now with a few too long in the tooth and there really isn't anything to lose in bringing in some new blood as things stand.

 

[E17yid]

Hoping Billy V makes a full recovery. Bloody unlucky to break his arm so soon after a long lay off. Without him and Hughes I thought our game plan went to pot. We rely heavily on a big ball carrier at 8 to get us on the front foot and we couldn't do it with Simmonds. The squad needs changing up now with a few too long in the tooth and there really isn't anything to lose in bringing in some new blood as things stand.

Yeah, the SA tour is the perfect opportunity to take some newbies and cut their teeth. After that you still have the autumn internationals and another 6 nations so plenty of time to experiment before the WC

Question to you and anyone else that knows but I’m assuming that there are no summer tours next year due to the WC starting in September (if indeed it is actually September)

 

[mpickard2087]

Sarries v Quins on Channel 5, just kicked off.

Spot the internationals. This just about says it all re. workload:

 

[teok]

Check out this try saving tackle from tait. Quality.



https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/977920613900693504

 

[E17yid]

Check out this try saving tackle from tait. Quality.



https://twitter.com/btsportrugby/status/977920613900693504

Not as good as Underhill’s on Scott Williams, imo.

 

[tototoner]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-43571066

Paddy Jackson and Stuart Olding not guilty of rape