The Spurs Youth Thread – 2016/2017

[Blake Griffin]

not good.

 

[nicdic]

not good.

Why?

 

[Blake Griffin]

Why?

getting bumped down to an age group he hasn't played at in over a year whilst far inferior players have gone to hk with the first team. six weeks ago we deemed him to be above playing in an fa youth cup semi final but now he's playing in some pointless end of season tournament.

 

[nicdic]

getting bumped down to an age group he hasn't played at in over a year whilst far inferior players have gone to hk with the first team. six weeks ago we deemed him to be above playing in an fa youth cup semi final but now he's playing in some pointless end of season tournament.

U19 isn't FA Youth Cup or U18s football though is it?

Could be a whole number of issues. Rumours of injuries could mean it makes more sense to go to a tournament and play a few games. Could be that the others were more deserving of the chance to go with the First Team?

 

[spursfan77]

Maybe Poch doesn't think he's fit enough for first team action.

 

[Lilbaz]

Maybe Poch doesn't think he's fit enough for first team action.

But i won the treble with him on football manager. Does that mean nothing these days?

 

[Blake Griffin]

U19 isn't FA Youth Cup or U18s football though is it?

Could be a whole number of issues. Rumours of injuries could mean it makes more sense to go to a tournament and play a few games. Could be that the others were more deserving of the chance to go with the First Team?

ok it's an u19 tournament by name but the squad is u18s plus harrison and loft, marcus hasn't played with this group since march last year. for you everything is fine, for me i think something clearly isn't right so we may as well leave it there.

 

[Spurzinho]

ok it's an u19 tournament by name but the squad is u18s plus harrison and loft, marcus hasn't played with this group since march last year. for you everything is fine, for me i think something clearly isn't right so we may as well leave it there.

I'll be frank, I don't buy the narrative that the club is dictating which players, young or old, Poch can pick and which he can't. I just don't think he'd stand for that.
I don't believe that it was Veljkovic's contract situation that made Poch overlook him, I think its was purely that he didn't rate him. It may have played a role in the sense that Poch felt disinclined to take a chance on an unfancied player who also wasn't committing himself long term. However, had Poch rated Milos highly then I have no doubt that he would have been involved regularly in match day squads. For further evidence I would point to Lesniak getting actual game time despite being out of contract in the summer, Miller and Amos are both out of contract I believe and have spent a lot of time with the first team. I could be wrong, none of us are privy to the inner workings of the club but I just can't see Poch being the kind of guy who would accept that kind of dictation. What's he going to do drop a player every time they enter into the last 2 years of their contract?

 

[Blake Griffin]

I'll be frank, I don't buy the narrative that the club is dictating which players, young or old, Poch can pick and which he can't. I just don't think he'd stand for that.
I don't believe that it was Veljkovic's contract situation that made Poch overlook him, I think its was purely that he didn't rate him. It may have played a role in the sense that Poch felt disinclined to take a chance on an unfancied player who also wasn't committing himself long term. However, had Poch rated Milos highly then I have no doubt that he would have been involved regularly in match day squads. For further evidence I would point to Lesniak getting actual game time despite being out of contract in the summer, Miller and Amos are both out of contract I believe and have spent a lot of time with the first team. I could be wrong, none of us are privy to the inner workings of the club but I just can't see Poch being the kind of guy who would accept that kind of dictation. What's he going to do drop a player every time they enter into the last 2 years of their contract?

i don't think it's a club decision though, i think it's a poch one.

tbh you seem to be arguing a completely different point to anything i've said. what exactly do you think the situation with edwards is?

 

[kd2000]

I'll be frank, I don't buy the narrative that the club is dictating which players, young or old, Poch can pick and which he can't. I just don't think he'd stand for that.
I don't believe that it was Veljkovic's contract situation that made Poch overlook him, I think its was purely that he didn't rate him. It may have played a role in the sense that Poch felt disinclined to take a chance on an unfancied player who also wasn't committing himself long term. However, had Poch rated Milos highly then I have no doubt that he would have been involved regularly in match day squads. For further evidence I would point to Lesniak getting actual game time despite being out of contract in the summer, Miller and Amos are both out of contract I believe and have spent a lot of time with the first team. I could be wrong, none of us are privy to the inner workings of the club but I just can't see Poch being the kind of guy who would accept that kind of dictation. What's he going to do drop a player every time they enter into the last 2 years of their contract?

In my opinion very different reasons. For instance vjelkovic and edwards wouldnt sign new deals and werent played because of this. Lesniak etc havent signed new deals because we havent offered them. The club playing them could be their way of giving them game time to earn a new deal with us, or a better deal elsewhere.
In my opinion im happy for the club to reward less skilled players who show loyalty than those who have an eye elsewhere.

Disclaimer - obviously i dont know the circumstances behind velkovic and edwards but this is my take on it based on comments made in here

 

[Anuth]

1.05 min Troy Parrot's penalty

 

[Blake Griffin]

In my opinion very different reasons. For instance vjelkovic and edwards wouldnt sign new deals and werent played because of this. Lesniak etc havent signed new deals because we havent offered them. The club playing them could be their way of giving them game time to earn a new deal with us, or a better deal elsewhere.
In my opinion im happy for the club to reward less skilled players who show loyalty than those who have an eye elsewhere.

Disclaimer - obviously i dont know the circumstances behind velkovic and edwards but this is my take on it based on comments made in here

veljkovic not signing a new deal wouldn't have helped but i don't think poch was overly fussed about him anyway, edwards on the other hand i do believe poch rates very highly but he won't change his stance for anyone. i don't expect to see marcus involved with the first team in any shape or form until his future is resolved, either he signs a new deal over the summer or he'll see out the final 12 months on his contract and leave for nothing at the end of it. wherever he ends up though i think he's going to be an outstanding player.

 

[kd2000]

veljkovic not signing a new deal wouldn't have helped but i don't think poch was overly fussed about him anyway, edwards on the other hand i do believe poch rates very highly but he won't change his stance for anyone. i don't expect to see marcus involved with the first team in any shape or form until his future is resolved, either he signs a new deal over the summer or he'll see out the final 12 months on his contract and leave for nothing at the end of it. wherever he ends up though i think he's going to be an outstanding player.

I agree and just hope he becomes that player for us. Unfortunately looking at this with head rather than heart i think it will be elsewhere. We are seemingly at an impasse where we wont play him unless he signs, and he wont sign unless he plays (maybe he has people in his ear saying he could be first team elsewhere and on much more money also)

 

[IGSpur]

What happened to us not playing people who dont sign, yet we give a chance to Lesniak

So when we like the player we treat them differently by progressing them quickly and convince them to stay by no doubt giving them incentives. Said player doesn't get opportunities they want, and aren't so quick to commit their future, when they don't know what's going on. Player gets criticised as not believing in what we're doing and can do one if he doesn't blindly commit, and wonder why he thinks he should get special treatment after being given special treatment.

Also the hypocrisy of the situation is also mainly down to Levy I reckon and his harsh policies. If there is a good chance he won't end up with egg on his face or a player isn't massively sought after, he doesn't mind them playing. Whereas the players that are clearly quality and Poch rates and would like to play e.g. Edwards and Veljkovic, are the ones where if they got their chance and likely played well then went for free it would look embarrassing for the club. I think Levy is just trying to avoid mini Sol Campbell situations. If they play and do well, we lose a valuable asset for free.

Whereas someone like Lesniak isn't going to be considered a big loss if he was to be given a chance. Harsh policy we employ.

If Lesniak gets a contract after being selected by Poch, and we know he only chooses players if he believes they're good enough, then I wonder if BC will start receiving apologies on this forum, after being mocked for the year

 

[beats1]

So when we like the player we treat them differently by progressing them quickly and convince them to stay by no doubt giving them incentives. Said player doesn't get opportunities they want, and aren't so quick to commit their future, when they don't know what's going on. Player gets criticised as not believing in what we're doing and can do one if he doesn't blindly commit, and wonder why he thinks he should get special treatment after being given special treatment.

Also the hypocrisy of the situation is also mainly down to Levy I reckon and his harsh policies. If there is a good chance he won't end up with egg on his face or a player isn't massively sought after, he doesn't mind them playing. Whereas the players that are clearly quality and Poch rates and would like to play e.g. Edwards and Veljkovic, are the ones where if they got their chance and likely played well then went for free it would look embarrassing for the club. I think Levy is just trying to avoid mini Sol Campbell situations. If they play and do well, we lose a valuable asset for free.

Whereas someone like Lesniak isn't going to be considered a big loss if he was to be given a chance. Harsh policy we employ.

If Lesniak gets a contract after being selected by Poch, and we know he only chooses players if he believes they're good enough, then I wonder if BC will start receiving apologies on this forum, after being mocked for the year

I can understand the milos situation as there was a chance he could leave for free by going abroad

However Levy and Tim Sherwood are idiots for creating a ridiculous scenario for us with our english players leaving for free to a rival via a third party

By sending Fryers to Standard Liege so we can sign him without paying compensation puts us at risk for our best players and the worst thing is, we used this very good trick on a poor player.

If we did it on someone like Gomes, Sancho and etc. fair enough but we used on a player that had no future at his own club FFS

Losing Edwards to a premier league b team would be a shame

 

[IGSpur]

I'll be frank, I don't buy the narrative that the club is dictating which players, young or old, Poch can pick and which he can't. I just don't think he'd stand for that.
I don't believe that it was Veljkovic's contract situation that made Poch overlook him, I think its was purely that he didn't rate him. It may have played a role in the sense that Poch felt disinclined to take a chance on an unfancied player who also wasn't committing himself long term. However, had Poch rated Milos highly then I have no doubt that he would have been involved regularly in match day squads. For further evidence I would point to Lesniak getting actual game time despite being out of contract in the summer, Miller and Amos are both out of contract I believe and have spent a lot of time with the first team. I could be wrong, none of us are privy to the inner workings of the club but I just can't see Poch being the kind of guy who would accept that kind of dictation. What's he going to do drop a player every time they enter into the last 2 years of their contract?

I think you;d be surprised. It doesn't happen with 1st teamers. But I am aware of it happening at youth level. Veljkovic was a talented player and Trix admitted that Poch did want to use him, but couldn't because he wasn't signing a contract. The Lesniak, Miller and Amos situations are completely different as @kmk says as they aren't on the aforementioned players levels. They aren't being asked to sign relatively long contracts for inexperienced players. They are trying to play for 1 year extensions to eventually get a chance. Milos and Edwards know how good they are and they could go anywhere for more football.

At first team we wouldn't let this situation happen unless we didn't rate the player. And with a first teamer if it was to happen you know what they offer. Whereas if neither have 1st team football as you say I don't think Poch really cares that much if they don't get a chance as he can just buy another cheap alternative anyway, which is more likely to happen anyway. Levy narrating to Poch what happens with academy players isn't the same as first teamers. I know this was happening a year ago, and I am very confident that a similar situation is happening with Edwards. I have seen Edwards go from coasting in matches to tracking back and putting in effort. Poch has compared him to Messi, anyone who has seen Edwards knows he is class. Edwards wants to play first team football and will know what Poch is like so knows he has to put in the work. So I don;t think after all that Poch now thinks he is worse than Lesniak, Shashoua, Sterling and Harrison. All signs point to issues for me, and I think it is due to Levy's rules sadly. Hope it gets sorted, and Breezer believes it will be, but we'll have to wait and see

 

[IGSpur]

I can understand the milos situation as there was a chance he could leave for free

However Levy and Tim Sherwood are idiots for creating a ridiculous scenario for us with our english players leaving for free.

By sending Fryers to Standard Liege so we can sign him without paying compensation puts us at risk for our best players and the worst thing is, we used this very good trick on a poor player.

If we did it on someone like Gomes, Sancho and etc. fair enough but we used on a player that had no future at his own club FFS

Losing Edwards to a premier league b team would be a shame

Not sure what you mean mate, sorry.

But either way, we wouldn't be able to do a Fryers situation to those types of players

 

[Lilbaz]

I think you;d be surprised. It doesn't happen with 1st teamers. But I am aware of it happening at youth level. Veljkovic was a talented player and Trix admitted that Poch did want to use him, but couldn't because he wasn't signing a contract. The Lesniak, Miller and Amos situations are completely different as @kmk says as they aren't on the aforementioned players levels. They aren't being asked to sign relatively long contracts for inexperienced players. They are trying to play for 1 year extensions to eventually get a chance. Milos and Edwards know how good they are and they could go anywhere for more football.

At first team we wouldn't let this situation happen unless we didn't rate the player. And with a first teamer if it was to happen you know what they offer. Whereas if neither have 1st team football as you say I don't think Poch really cares that much if they don't get a chance as he can just buy another cheap alternative anyway, which is more likely to happen anyway. Levy narrating to Poch what happens with academy players isn't the same as first teamers. I know this was happening a year ago, and I am very confident that a similar situation is happening with Edwards. I have seen Edwards go from coasting in matches to tracking back and putting in effort. Poch has compared him to Messi, anyone who has seen Edwards knows he is class. Edwards wants to play first team football and will know what Poch is like so knows he has to put in the work. So I don;t think after all that Poch now thinks he is worse than Lesniak, Shashoua, Sterling and Harrison. All signs point to issues for me, and I think it is due to Levy's rules sadly. Hope it gets sorted, and Breezer believes it will be, but we'll have to wait and see

What do you mean levy's rules?
Why would poch take time to bring through a player if he was refusing to sign a contract? We have players that can do the job far better at the moment so what would be the point of grooming him only for another team to benefit.
If by levy's rules you mean how much we are willing to offer in his contract. Then yes that is down to levy and the finacial restraints of the club.

As far as we know though he has been injured and poch decided to take lasniak as he's impressed him in training and wants to give him a chance to show he's worth an extension.

 

[IGSpur]

What do you mean levy's rules?
Why would poch take time to bring through a player if he was refusing to sign a contract? We have players that can do the job far better at the moment so what would be the point of grooming him only for another team to benefit.
If by levy's rules you mean how much we are willing to offer in his contract. Then yes that is down to levy and the finacial restraints of the club.

As far as we know though he has been injured and poch decided to take lasniak as he's impressed him in training and wants to give him a chance to show he's worth an extension.

Because he is our player.

Noone knows when an extension was offered. If it was offered towards the end of the season, then why would Poch and Levy not carry on business as usual up until then, they can't predict what would happen.

And I don't get what you mean we have players who can do a far better job. They are already playing ahead of Edwards. Noone has been dropped or had to make way for him so noone has missed out. He hasn't been given a chance (granted he's been injured) so its not like he was actually going to be in the first team this year. Poch hasn't given any young player major minutes after only one year of training in the first team so I can't imagine Edwards would have been any different. He's only invested a years work of him just training with the first team as he is our player, that's why he would train him.

If come March/April I don't know the details, when he was apparently injured again, he had been offered a new contract to extend the deal and not initially signing it, then Levy's rules of not allowing a player to play would come into affect. Hence him being dropped to the u23s and not going on tour with the first team

 

[Lilbaz]

Because he is our player.

Noone knows when an extension was offered. If it was offered towards the end of the season, then why would Poch and Levy not carry on business as usual up until then, they can't predict what would happen.

And I don't get what you mean we have players who can do a far better job. They are already playing ahead of Edwards. Noone has been dropped or had to make way for him so noone has missed out. He hasn't been given a chance (granted he's been injured) so its not like he was actually going to be in the first team this year. Poch hasn't given any young player major minutes after only one year of training in the first team so I can't imagine Edwards would have been any different. He's only invested a years work of him just training with the first team as he is our player, that's why he would train him.

If come March/April I don't know the details, when he was apparently injured again, he had been offered a new contract to extend the deal and not initially signing it, then Levy's rules of not allowing a player to play would come into affect. Hence him being dropped to the u23s and not going on tour with the first team

How do you know it's levy's rules and not poch's? How do you know poch hasn't said to levy i'm not going to waste time giving him minutes if he's going to leave? It might well be levy but as far as i can tell that is only assumption and speculation.