The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by IGSpur, Jul 16, 2017.

  1. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    I think the whole ethos of poch philosophy is pretty much anyone can play anywhere.Someone like Sanchez could prob play striker and do a job.Most of our players are comfortable in 2 or 3 positions at least.
     
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  2. Cornpattbuck

    Cornpattbuck Well-Known Member

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    Not really the point, surely? They're a great club for young talent and he was told he couldn't move to another PL club...
     
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  3. Tyler24durden

    Tyler24durden Active Member

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    Would love us to sign Sancho, going to be a star so if we do have any secret deal with Dortmund then happy days, however I doubt it.

    I think due to the financial doping of Chelsea and the Manchester clubs we need to be smart and sign up these type of players by highlighting how Poch improves them, gives them playing time etc.

    Aurier and foyth came to us this yer for these reasons.

    Still hope that we can produce a top quality cb (king), Eriksen type and striker (Kane) from the academy in the next couple of years.
     
  4. Blake Griffin

    Blake Griffin Well-Known Member

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    u23s vs leicester

    whiteman; marsh, maghoma, tanganga, bennetts; skipp, amos; edwards, pritchard, shashoua; sterling

    subs: austin, roles, tracey, harrison, loft

    edit: finished 1-1, shashoua got the goal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2017
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  5. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    Being shown anywhere?
     
  6. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    Isn’t lyons foster a full back ?
     
  7. IfiHadTheWings

    IfiHadTheWings Active Member

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    Another Levy masterstroke...he's only signing lads with double barrelled surnames, with the brexit implications on raw materials we are going to make an absolute killing on printed letters in the future.
     
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  8. Lemon

    Lemon End World Debt

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    Agree, but would be good to build a positive relationship with Dortmund, maybe he will be homesick next summer in which case I recon £15-20m would be needed (based on last summers lunacy).

    Think he might have to fragile mentality for Germany, unless he did German at school, we'll see.
     
  9. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

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    He was meant to be homesick for london and his mum this summer. He moved to germany. Why? I'm guessing it might be something to do with the fact that fa new rules mean that agents don't get paid for players under the age of 18.
     
  10. Romulus

    Romulus Well-Known Member

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    @IGSpur do you know the current situation with England u15? who do we have in the squad
     
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  11. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    He's a right footed LB or LCB though can play RB. As @edson says looks very comfortable despite his size. We're going througha very blessed stage in our academy producing lots of very good CBs and FBs atm
     
  12. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    Ccv getting rave reviews from Sheffield United fans.Desperate to buy him.
     
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  13. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    Heard nothign mate. Think there is a camp coming up though.

    At the last one we had John, Craigs, Oluwayemi and Lusala and imagine they will be looked at again at some point

    Also our u16s beat West Ham 5-0, Binks got a goal and assist from CB
     
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  14. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    England beat Iraq 4-0 yesterday after making 8 changes. Steven Sessegnon unsurprising looked very good at RB and got two assists for Loader who I prefer to Brewster. I doubt Eyoma will get his place back, but as a few of us have said we always preferred actual FBs at FB rather CBs there.

    Another convincing win, hopefully Sancho stays but if he doesn't it's OK as we have other equally talented players in the 3 behind if needed. A 3 of Foden, CHO and Gomes is just as good, but having him there is better than not.

    England face Japan next
     
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  15. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    This was from October 2015

    To carry on from these 2 posts, about these two age groups, here is a view from someone who's opinion will no doubt hold more weight than a fan on a forum. This is from an article I'll post in the next post

    Borussia Mönchengladbach, sporting director Max Eberl said “We follow every English national game — under-16, under-17 and so on — and we know every top player in England,” he says. “They develop great players. That age group [born in] 2000 in England, you could take every player. It’s unbelievable. They will perhaps win the Under-17 World Cup in India this month. That age group of 1999-2000-2001, there are a lot of top English players. For me, they’re the best in the world in that age group.

    There is a lot to look forward to, it will be a crime if none come through. Really hope we win the World Cup
     
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  16. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    I was going to post this in the General Youth Football thread as it isn't specific to Spurs but I think more people will read it here, and it actually does apply to us. The bit I bolded below, is what applies to us. It is what I discussed in the Marcus Edwards thread. There is a talent drain, and someone who has no agenda no bias, to any club or any managers can even see, we have more talent here than elsewhere but will choose to buy a player with 2 years of experience in Ligue 1 over giving their own players a chance. It is risk averse and then we hear the baloney of, the cream will always rise to the top. It is such baloney. Or why would managers shoot themselves in the foot by choosing lesser players if academy players are good enough? It's because managers are risk averse, regardless of who good they looked they are still an unknown quantity. Young players like senior players will still make mistakes and have to learn, and managers are fearful of that, and so go for lesser players. I was mocked on this forum for suggesting Veljkovic would be a better option or player than buying James McCarthy. This is the mentality and state of English football fans. Going for average players rather than looking within and not only that but actually mocking or ridiculing someone for thinking our talent is better. I watch so many games, as do other, but it is deemed meaningless and worthless if you can't compare them to fully grown adults.

    Well the Sporting Director of Borussia Monchengladbach disagrees, numerous quality coaches disagree, we can see that these academy players are better than average players getting chances in other leagues, why can't the English mentality change. Money has ruined English football or the England team. Soo many players lost out as we can buy average elsewhere, and there is no loss to that team. City don't care if they lose Sancho as they can buy hime back for 60m if he does well, same as United with Pogba, There is no incentive to try them out

    The amount of times I've heard someone say, well, so and so is now playing at this level clearly they weren't good enough is so ridiculous. As if the lack of chances, lack of progression, constant unsettling can't have a detriment on confidence, and ability. It's so narrow minded it's unreal and just is used to serve and reinforce the notion that they shouldn't be given a chance. At least Germany and other countries (the ones we aspire to be like) have seen what we have and sadly are taking it upon themselves to improve English football. Not out of the kindness of their heart but because they see that what we have is better than what they have and can offer better opportunities. Let's hope our players are bold enough to take it the opportunities and we might start seeing England improve, though not necessarily the PL.

    Why German clubs are desperate for English talent
    Oliver Kay speaks to players who have moved and those being the Bundesliga’s recruitment drive

    Oliver Kay, Chief Football Correspondent
    October 14 2017, 12:01am, The Times

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    Sancho became the latest English youngster to join a Bundesliga clubTF-IMAGES/GETTY IMAGES
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    They do a lot of number-crunching at Borussia Mönchengladbach. According to their sporting director Max Eberl, they use every available metric and statistic as they scout and scour Europe for the best young talent in Europe. “A lot of numbers,” he says in his office at Borussia-Park. “All the numbers that are possible today.”

    Those numbers have led Eberl and his colleagues to conclusions that are backed up every time they watch the England youth teams or indeed the Premier League’s competitions at under-23 and under-18 level. “We follow every English national game — under-16, under-17 and so on — and we know every top player in England,” he says. “They develop great players. That age group [born in] 2000 in England, you could take every player. It’s unbelievable. They will perhaps win the Under-17 World Cup in India this month. That age group of 1999-2000-2001, there are a lot of top English players. For me, they’re the best in the world in that age group.”

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    Several English players have settled in well to life in the BundesligaTIMES COMPOSITE
    When Jadon Sancho, one of the stars of that England Under-17 team, left Manchester City for Borussia Dortmund this summer, it was the most eyecatching in a series of moves that have taken English youngsters to Bundesliga clubs. It began with Danny Collinge, formerly of Milton Keynes Dons, joining Stuttgart in 2014 and continued with Mandela Egbo’s move from Crystal Palace to Mönchengladbach a year later. This summer two England Under-20 players, Kaylen Hinds, 19, and Ryan Kent, 20, left Arsenal for Wolfsburg (permanently) and Liverpool for Freiburg (on loan) and a third, Reece Oxford, 18, joined Mönchengladbach on loan from West Ham United; Sancho, 17, has since been joined at Dortmund by Denzeil Boadu, 20, who was also at City.

    Some in positions of power at Premier League clubs may be inclined to call it a talent drain. If anything, it has been designed to end the drain that is already happening within English football, where the financial stakes are so high, the culture has become so risk-averse and there is so little patience to nurture young talent in the Premier League. Too many fine prospects have been lost in the system, their potential not just unfulfilled but forgotten entirely. In Germany, at least, there is a growing regard — and a growing appetite — for English talent. What is more, the attraction slowly appears to have become mutual.

    They are developing great young players in England,” Eberl says, “but normally the player has no chance to be in the first XI or even the first 18 of a Premier League team. English clubs, they will buy another player. They have a top player in their academy, but they will buy another who is two years older and has played two years in the first team in France or somewhere else. Sometimes it looks like the transfer market is a competition in itself. They don’t look to their own academy.

    “For example, Chelsea have Andreas Christensen. They got him back this summer after a two-year development — the best possible development, Champions League development — with us. He played for us against [Pierre-Emerick] Aubameyang, [Robert] Lewandowski, [Sergio] Agüero, [Álvaro] Morata, [Gonzalo] Higuaín, the best strikers in the world, and did a great job. They got him back for nothing, but also they buy [Antonio] Rüdiger for nearly €40 million [about £34 million] from Roma. Rüdiger is an excellent player, as we know in Germany, but so is Christensen, their own player, who joined them at the age of 15. I am not criticising Chelsea — they do a great job — but this is just the way of it in England.

    “So what is the next step for these young players? We want to be able to say, ‘We can be the next step for you.’ Reece and Jadon could be the example for the next guys. And I am starting to feel it a lot because a lot of English agents called us and said, ‘Hey, our player wants to come and play in the Bundesliga.’ I feel that they begin to open their eyes away from the Premier League, yes, but to Europe and especially in Germany. This is what I feel from the conversations I have had with agents. They are open to bringing players to Germany.”

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    One agent, involved in one of the above deals, describes it thus. “If you’re a first-year or second-year pro at a big Premier League club, are you even on the manager’s radar?” he says. “Depending on the club, they might have two or three senior internationals in your position in the first-team squad. They might have the same in the under-23s, the same in the under-18s, another two or three out on loan. When that manager needs a player for the first team, will he look to the under-23s or the under-18s or the guys who have been on loan? No. More often than not, he looks to the transfer market. In Germany the culture is different — there is a clear philosophy, a clear pathway, with every young player knowing he will get the best possible chance to develop. That’s why our young players are suddenly looking to Germany, whether it’s loans or permanent moves.”

    The theory is beyond question – particularly at clubs such as RB Leipzig, Bayer Leverkusen, Freiburg, Wolfsburg, Mönchengladbach and Dortmund, where there is a strong emphasis on developing younger players.

    So far, though, those English players have made just one Bundesliga start between them. That came when Hinds, who spent the second half of last season on loan to Stevenage, was unexpectedly selected for Wolfsburg’s opening league game against Dortmund in August. Collinge and Egbo are respectively in their fourth and third season in Germany and neither has appeared in the Bundesliga, though at 19 and 20 respectively they are young enough to feel they have time on their side. Theirs was more of a long-term mission, aimed at developing through Germany’s B-team structure. Both are regularly in the Regionalliga, Germany’s regionalised fourth tier. It sounds like a long way off the Bundesliga, though Eberl speaks positively of Egbo’s progression at Mönchengladbach, where he has recently started to train with the first team and impressed in a friendly match against Duisburg.

    Encouragingly, Kent has made three Bundesliga appearances as a substitute for Freiburg, while Hinds was on the bench for Wolfsburg in their final match before the international break. So too was Sancho for Dortmund’s match away to Augsburg. He has since travelled to India for the Under-17 World Cup, where he has made a strong impression in England’s first two matches, and at 17 is regarded much as Christian Pulisic, the United States playmaker, was when he made his breakthrough at Dortmund two years ago. “Sancho is a huge talent,” Dortmund’s sporting director Michael Zorc said recently. “He’ll need time to settle in, but I’m convinced we’ll have a lot of fun with him in the next few years. We don’t only talk about developing talents. We give them playing time at a high level.”

    That is what Oxford is expecting at Mönchengladbach too. He is yet to kick a ball in the Bundesliga and there have been reports that West Ham will activate a clause to recall him in December. Eberl does not deny that Oxford has been frustrated, but he believes the youngster and West Ham would be making a mistake if his German experience is cut short. “Reece wants to play,” Eberl says. “He doesn’t want to wait. I have spoken to him. I said, ‘Reece, it takes two or three months. You have to adapt to German culture, to the Bundesliga, a different style of football.’ Now he is adapting to our training, our approach. For me, he is making great development. We have been able to tell him, ‘You are one short step away from playing. You’re 18. Yes, you played in West Ham’s first team in the Premier League two years ago, but you had a big injury and in the last year you had only five games at Reading. You decided on the right step — here with us — and we will bring you to the level because you will play here.’

    “To me, it would make no sense for Reece to go back in December. The example for him is Christensen — not an English player, but another top, talented defender from a Premier League club. Andreas played two years here at the top level, made a huge improvement and is now playing for Chelsea. Reece can do the same — or he could stay in Germany if he wanted to. Yes, there is a clause that they could take him back in December if he plays too few games, but we hope to be able to show Reece and West Ham very soon that he can have a perfect development here this season.”

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    Oxford is on loan to Mönchengladbach from West HamGETTY IMAGES
    For Egbo, as for Collinge at Stuttgart, it is a more gradual process, but the Mönchengladbach youngster has no regrets. “Absolutely not,” Egbo says. “I can say without any doubt at all it was the best move for me. It has been an experience I wouldn’t swap. It is taking a bit longer than I thought it would, I guess, but that’s not to say it’s not coming. The whole journey has been exactly that — a journey. It has been learning curve after learning curve after learning curve. It has been invaluable.”

    Egbo talks positively about the B-team experience in Germany — playing competitive football while, unlike a loan, remaining under his club’s tutelage — but it is the broader aspects of his development that convince him he is in the right place. Collinge moved to Germany in part because it allowed him the opportunity to study for an international baccalaureate. Egbo, too, feels that the move has broadened his mind as well as helping his development as a footballer. “Living away from home, in another country, you have to be so much more mature,” he says. “It has been great for me.”

    Where does he want to be in three years? Back in the Premier League? “My plan is to stay here for a long time and play as many Bundesliga games as possible,” Egbo says. “It has been two years and I know I haven’t got anything clear to show for it yet, but I’m more determined than ever. I came out here with a vision. I’ve started it and I’m determined to carry on with it.

    “Reece has probably got the same vision for himself — the same with Jadon and the others. I hope it pays off for all of us — including, obviously, the players in the Prem. I would love to see a load of English youngsters get 150 games over the next three years. I’m not saying, ‘The Prem is rubbish. Move out here to get games.’ I want everybody to succeed wherever they are. What is clear is that it’s hard to do that wherever you are, in whichever league or country, but I believe Germany is the best place for me. It looks like others are starting to feel the same.”
     
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  17. Lilbaz

    Lilbaz Just call me Baz

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    Agents will be pushing young players to move abroad. Partly though because agents no longer receive a fee for transfers of players u18.
     
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  18. IGSpur

    IGSpur Well-Known Member

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    Now they have an incentive of helping their career. Stay with them they'll get a big cut when they make the bug move
     
  19. Blake Griffin

    Blake Griffin Well-Known Member

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    glad ccv's loan is going well, just a shame we can't say the same for onomah.

    for the 5th game in a row he came on for 20 minutes in an advanced position, i couldn't even work out where he was supposed to be playing or even what formation they were using and his teammates looked equally confused. he gave the ball away a couple of times but generally made a positive impact and at least brought some urgency to the side but the game was already gone by then.

    the problem is that not only is josh not playing a great deal, or playing in his actual position but villa just play an utterly dirge brand of football constantly on the back-foot and with little to no coherency to anything they do. a stark contrast to chris wilder's sheffield utd side who, on the occasions i've watched them at least, are well drilled, always looking to play out from the back and look to impose their game on the opposition. in hindsight - though i, as well as many others in here, were sceptical(at best) of josh going to villa, he'd have been far better suited to joining ccv in sheffield.

    the other main root of frustration for me is that when onomah's playing for england's u21s, there's no doubt that he's one of the better performers on a consistent basis and yet at club level he's in a worse position than about 90% of them:

    gunn - starts for norwich

    alexander-arnold - starts semi-regularly for liverpool
    gomez - starts regularly for liverpool
    fry - starts for boro
    chilwell - starts semi-regularly for leicester
    kwp - ..........

    cook - hadn't been playing much for bournemouth but has now started their last two games, including yesterday against us
    onomah - sub for villa
    davies - starts fairly regularly for everton
    loftus-cheek - starts regularly for palace

    gray - sub for leicester
    lookman - occasional sub for everton
    calvert-lewin - starts fairly regularly for everton
    solanke - occasional sub appearances for liverpool
    abraham - starts for swansea


    i'm not at all saying that he should just have it handed to him on a plate but it's just annoying to see the position he finds himself in. villa fans regularly lay into whelan saying he's slow, can't run, offers nothing on the ball etc but he's one of bruce's top old boys who'll never let him down so he's always going to start. houlahan i've watched at least half a dozen times now and i'm still not really sure what kind of player he's meant to be. it's still relatively early days but i have little faith that things will turnaround for josh under bruce and i still can't understand why we sent him there in the first place, especially when it was widely reported that the likes of brighton, huddersfield and swansea were all interested in taking him earlier on in the summer.
     
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  20. Lemon

    Lemon End World Debt

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    Just came to post this about Eberl. Good stuff and backs up what you and a few other youth watchers have been saying.

    Great skills IG, ever thought of scouting? You articulate well and seem to have a good eye...
     
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