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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

mark87

Well-Known Member
Nov 29, 2004
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I think we should be all over poaching them. Trouble is, aren't their youth players paid the same as some members of our first team squad. Thats going to cause problems currently, well, at least until we are in the new stadium.

I would imagine it'll be an issue, but this is where they find out what's more important, money or playing football? If they choose the former then they need to quit their whining.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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It's funny isn't it. You can watch a player however many times, watch him standout consistently for 3 years, but he gets shown on TV not running through everyone, and all of a sudden he is now no longer good enough for the first team. I think people build up an unrealistic expectation of someone and then get let down when they don't match it.

People have seen Bennetts play well for 3 games, and want him to get a chance, but he didn't play well yesterday does that now mean he doesn't deserve a chance. Fans are so fickle. Players have off games, it happens. Falcao played poorly against CCV at u23s so that means CCV is a better defender than Falcao a striker


What's also annoying is the double standard. There are players playing regularly for our first team that continually don't get facets of the game right, they don't always press well, don't always hold the ball well, they aren't always intelligent, sometimes don't want to receive the ball under pressure, don't pass it very well, poor technique under pressure, don't always play well, make poor decisions etc, but no matter how good an academy player's game is, if he doesn't seem to do everything brilliantly, he's "clearly not ready".
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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Sorry to say Edwards is nowhere near sancho.Yesterday showed how much England missed Sancho.Even a player like Hudson odoi had nowhere near the impact of sancho.
Can’t imagine what Kirby is now thinking seeing the progress of winks and someone like Georgiou in the bench in the bernabeu.
I can understand someone leaving for game time at say 20 but to do it at 17 is baffling.Could be a decision he will regret for a long time.


I don't necessarily agree with this. Sancho is a talent for sure, and I confess I have not seen anywhere near as much of him as Edwards, but in terms of their footballing brains I think Edwards does have slightly better footballing brain. Edwards decision making and awareness of whats around him is superb. The deft little back heel through ball he played in the first half yesterday was as good as anything you will see at any level by a creative player in that type of situation, he played it virtually blind facing the other way, it wrong footed everyone but was perfectly into the path of our player (Roles maybe ?).

I actually think if Edwards was a foot taller he'd be higher up in Poch's thinking now, and that is Sancho's biggest advantage, he's got a better physique. But I think this is misguided, as I actually think Edwards could be even better if moved up to senior level where protection is far greater, we dominate most games and play a lot of teams that park a bus and desperately need a player whose strengths aren't physique but are technique in tight spaces, ability to commit defenders and go past them and see what's around them and make good choices. I think Edwards would be seen to even better effect with better players around him, running at bigger but less mobile humans than sprightly little fuckers he's running at now.

I'm not saying Edwards is ready to start senior games regularly, but I do believe he could offer something, off the bench for example, that no other player we have does, and he really isn't phased by the thought of senior football. The rest he needs to work on, what he does off the ball etc, but it's not like all our first team are perfect in every aspect either is it ?
 

Breezer

Position??? Magician!!!!
Aug 27, 2004
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I don't necessarily agree with this. Sancho is a talent for sure, and I confess I have not seen anywhere near as much of him as Edwards, but in terms of their footballing brains I think Edwards does have slightly better footballing brain. Edwards decision making and awareness of whats around him is superb. The deft little back heel through ball he played in the first half yesterday was as good as anything you will see at any level by a creative player in that type of situation, he played it virtually blind facing the other way, it wrong footed everyone but was perfectly into the path of our player (Roles maybe ?).

I actually think if Edwards was a foot taller he'd be higher up in Poch's thinking now, and that is Sancho's biggest advantage, he's got a better physique. But I think this is misguided, as I actually think Edwards could be even better if moved up to senior level where protection is far greater, we dominate most games and play a lot of teams that park a bus and desperately need a player whose strengths aren't physique but are technique in tight spaces, ability to commit defenders and go past them and see what's around them and make good choices. I think Edwards would be seen to even better effect with better players around him, running at bigger but less mobile humans than sprightly little fuckers he's running at now.

I'm not saying Edwards is ready to start senior games regularly, but I do believe he could offer something, off the bench for example, that no other player we have does, and he really isn't phased by the thought of senior football. The rest he needs to work on, what he does off the ball etc, but it's not like all our first team are perfect in every aspect either is it ?
Edwards isn’t fit to lace Sancho’s boots imho.

He just hasn’t progressed over the last 2 years and is far too lazy for Poch.
Edwards has been very good in 1st team training recently. Doesn’t look out of place at all. He belongs there but it will take time. Some more sessions in the gym and some tactical work off the ball and we have a real star in the making.

Just to let you know, Ajax offered £7.5m for Marcus in the summer. They done it to prove a point to English clubs that we have home grown players yet we buy youngsters from abroad. The offer was really considered but Spurs then acted quickly and put a substantial offer together for Marcus.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
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Edwards isn’t fit to lace Sancho’s boots imho.

He just hasn’t progressed over the last 2 years and is far too lazy for Poch.

no offence but less than a year ago you posted this:

Not watched the youth games before but Duncan and shashoua stand out.


so i don't know how you can then claim with any authority as to how edwards has or hasn't progressed over the past two years.
 

Bus-Conductor

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Oct 19, 2004
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Edwards has been very good in 1st team training recently. Doesn’t look out of place at all. He belongs there but it will take time. Some more sessions in the gym and some tactical work off the ball and we have a real star in the making.

Just to let you know, Ajax offered £7.5m for Marcus in the summer. They done it to prove a point to English clubs that we have home grown players yet we buy youngsters from abroad. The offer was really considered but Spurs then acted quickly and put a substantial offer together for Marcus.


I can't remember what I was listening to (maybe a podcast this last week) but apparently more German clubs are regularly starting to look at taking young English players too.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
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I can't remember what I was listening to (maybe a podcast this last week) but apparently more German clubs are regularly starting to look at taking young English players too.

Also read some Director of Football (at a foreign club) saying that England have the best players in the world born between 1998 and 2001 or something - and they know all of them.
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
8,274
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I would imagine it'll be an issue, but this is where they find out what's more important, money or playing football? If they choose the former then they need to quit their whining.

Thing is, it's not as simple as it may look like for a 13-14-15 years old to take a decision solely on footballing terms - and it's not his decision alone. You have over-ambitious parents who may have little perspective of what is best for their son in footballing terms and who rather take a instant hefty pay-check than wait and see; and then you have their greedy, seedy and persuasive agents who care only about money.
Besides, no matter how talented a player is, there is no guarantee he'll "make it", so some rather prefer the guaranteed money. At Chelski and ManC (ironically owned by Abu Dhabi United group) some of the top talents earn more than some 1st team players at Spurs.
 

Chris Flynn

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2012
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Thing is, it's not as simple as it may look like for a 13-14-15 years old to take a decision solely on footballing terms - and it's not his decision alone. You have over-ambitious parents who may have little perspective of what is best for their son in footballing terms and who rather take a instant hefty pay-check than wait and see; and then you have their greedy, seedy and persuasive agents who care only about money.
Besides, no matter how talented a player is, there is no guarantee he'll "make it", so some rather prefer the guaranteed money. At Chelski and ManC (ironically owned by Abu Dhabi United group) some of the top talents earn more than some 1st team players at Spurs.
Kind of the point money people dont get. Ive rarely seen a kid who grew up wanting of nothing becoming anything special in the real world beyond what their parants sorted them with (old tie club etc) but ive seen more people who grew up with nothing have the hunger to make something of themselves. A bit of advesory and drive is a fundimental part of driving people on. Paying kids 25k a year is basically going to destroy them as footballers and its irresponsible. How will they cope with life after that runs out and they cant get a club at 24?
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Also read some Director of Football (at a foreign club) saying that England have the best players in the world born between 1998 and 2001 or something - and they know all of them.

This was from October 2015



To carry on from these 2 posts, about these two age groups, here is a view from someone who's opinion will no doubt hold more weight than a fan on a forum. This is from an article I'll post in the next post

Borussia Mönchengladbach, sporting director Max Eberl said “We follow every English national game — under-16, under-17 and so on — and we know every top player in England,” he says. “They develop great players. That age group [born in] 2000 in England, you could take every player. It’s unbelievable. They will perhaps win the Under-17 World Cup in India this month. That age group of 1999-2000-2001, there are a lot of top English players. For me, they’re the best in the world in that age group.

There is a lot to look forward to, it will be a crime if none come through. Really hope we win the World Cup

I was going to post this in the General Youth Football thread as it isn't specific to Spurs but I think more people will read it here, and it actually does apply to us. The bit I bolded below, is what applies to us. It is what I discussed in the Marcus Edwards thread. There is a talent drain, and someone who has no agenda no bias, to any club or any managers can even see, we have more talent here than elsewhere but will choose to buy a player with 2 years of experience in Ligue 1 over giving their own players a chance. It is risk averse and then we hear the baloney of, the cream will always rise to the top. It is such baloney. Or why would managers shoot themselves in the foot by choosing lesser players if academy players are good enough? It's because managers are risk averse, regardless of who good they looked they are still an unknown quantity. Young players like senior players will still make mistakes and have to learn, and managers are fearful of that, and so go for lesser players. I was mocked on this forum for suggesting Veljkovic would be a better option or player than buying James McCarthy. This is the mentality and state of English football fans. Going for average players rather than looking within and not only that but actually mocking or ridiculing someone for thinking our talent is better. I watch so many games, as do other, but it is deemed meaningless and worthless if you can't compare them to fully grown adults.

Well the Sporting Director of Borussia Monchengladbach disagrees, numerous quality coaches disagree, we can see that these academy players are better than average players getting chances in other leagues, why can't the English mentality change. Money has ruined English football or the England team. Soo many players lost out as we can buy average elsewhere, and there is no loss to that team. City don't care if they lose Sancho as they can buy hime back for 60m if he does well, same as United with Pogba, There is no incentive to try them out

The amount of times I've heard someone say, well, so and so is now playing at this level clearly they weren't good enough is so ridiculous. As if the lack of chances, lack of progression, constant unsettling can't have a detriment on confidence, and ability. It's so narrow minded it's unreal and just is used to serve and reinforce the notion that they shouldn't be given a chance. At least Germany and other countries (the ones we aspire to be like) have seen what we have and sadly are taking it upon themselves to improve English football. Not out of the kindness of their heart but because they see that what we have is better than what they have and can offer better opportunities. Let's hope our players are bold enough to take it the opportunities and we might start seeing England improve, though not necessarily the PL.

Why German clubs are desperate for English talent
Oliver Kay speaks to players who have moved and those being the Bundesliga’s recruitment drive

Oliver Kay, Chief Football Correspondent
October 14 2017, 12:01am, The Times

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Sancho became the latest English youngster to join a Bundesliga clubTF-IMAGES/GETTY IMAGES
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They do a lot of number-crunching at Borussia Mönchengladbach. According to their sporting director Max Eberl, they use every available metric and statistic as they scout and scour Europe for the best young talent in Europe. “A lot of numbers,” he says in his office at Borussia-Park. “All the numbers that are possible today.”

Those numbers have led Eberl and his colleagues to conclusions that are backed up every time they watch the England youth teams or indeed the Premier League’s competitions at under-23 and under-18 level. “We follow every English national game — under-16, under-17 and so on — and we know every top player in England,” he says. “They develop great players. That age group [born in] 2000 in England, you could take every player. It’s unbelievable. They will perhaps win the Under-17 World Cup in India this month. That age group of 1999-2000-2001, there are a lot of top English players. For me, they’re the best in the world in that age group.”

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Several English players have settled in well to life in the BundesligaTIMES COMPOSITE
When Jadon Sancho, one of the stars of that England Under-17 team, left Manchester City for Borussia Dortmund this summer, it was the most eyecatching in a series of moves that have taken English youngsters to Bundesliga clubs. It began with Danny Collinge, formerly of Milton Keynes Dons, joining Stuttgart in 2014 and continued with Mandela Egbo’s move from Crystal Palace to Mönchengladbach a year later. This summer two England Under-20 players, Kaylen Hinds, 19, and Ryan Kent, 20, left Arsenal for Wolfsburg (permanently) and Liverpool for Freiburg (on loan) and a third, Reece Oxford, 18, joined Mönchengladbach on loan from West Ham United; Sancho, 17, has since been joined at Dortmund by Denzeil Boadu, 20, who was also at City.

Some in positions of power at Premier League clubs may be inclined to call it a talent drain. If anything, it has been designed to end the drain that is already happening within English football, where the financial stakes are so high, the culture has become so risk-averse and there is so little patience to nurture young talent in the Premier League. Too many fine prospects have been lost in the system, their potential not just unfulfilled but forgotten entirely. In Germany, at least, there is a growing regard — and a growing appetite — for English talent. What is more, the attraction slowly appears to have become mutual.

They are developing great young players in England,” Eberl says, “but normally the player has no chance to be in the first XI or even the first 18 of a Premier League team. English clubs, they will buy another player. They have a top player in their academy, but they will buy another who is two years older and has played two years in the first team in France or somewhere else. Sometimes it looks like the transfer market is a competition in itself. They don’t look to their own academy.

“For example, Chelsea have Andreas Christensen. They got him back this summer after a two-year development — the best possible development, Champions League development — with us. He played for us against [Pierre-Emerick] Aubameyang, [Robert] Lewandowski, [Sergio] Agüero, [Álvaro] Morata, [Gonzalo] Higuaín, the best strikers in the world, and did a great job. They got him back for nothing, but also they buy [Antonio] Rüdiger for nearly €40 million [about £34 million] from Roma. Rüdiger is an excellent player, as we know in Germany, but so is Christensen, their own player, who joined them at the age of 15. I am not criticising Chelsea — they do a great job — but this is just the way of it in England.

“So what is the next step for these young players? We want to be able to say, ‘We can be the next step for you.’ Reece and Jadon could be the example for the next guys. And I am starting to feel it a lot because a lot of English agents called us and said, ‘Hey, our player wants to come and play in the Bundesliga.’ I feel that they begin to open their eyes away from the Premier League, yes, but to Europe and especially in Germany. This is what I feel from the conversations I have had with agents. They are open to bringing players to Germany.”

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One agent, involved in one of the above deals, describes it thus. “If you’re a first-year or second-year pro at a big Premier League club, are you even on the manager’s radar?” he says. “Depending on the club, they might have two or three senior internationals in your position in the first-team squad. They might have the same in the under-23s, the same in the under-18s, another two or three out on loan. When that manager needs a player for the first team, will he look to the under-23s or the under-18s or the guys who have been on loan? No. More often than not, he looks to the transfer market. In Germany the culture is different — there is a clear philosophy, a clear pathway, with every young player knowing he will get the best possible chance to develop. That’s why our young players are suddenly looking to Germany, whether it’s loans or permanent moves.”

The theory is beyond question – particularly at clubs such as RB Leipzig, Bayer Leverkusen, Freiburg, Wolfsburg, Mönchengladbach and Dortmund, where there is a strong emphasis on developing younger players.

So far, though, those English players have made just one Bundesliga start between them. That came when Hinds, who spent the second half of last season on loan to Stevenage, was unexpectedly selected for Wolfsburg’s opening league game against Dortmund in August. Collinge and Egbo are respectively in their fourth and third season in Germany and neither has appeared in the Bundesliga, though at 19 and 20 respectively they are young enough to feel they have time on their side. Theirs was more of a long-term mission, aimed at developing through Germany’s B-team structure. Both are regularly in the Regionalliga, Germany’s regionalised fourth tier. It sounds like a long way off the Bundesliga, though Eberl speaks positively of Egbo’s progression at Mönchengladbach, where he has recently started to train with the first team and impressed in a friendly match against Duisburg.

Encouragingly, Kent has made three Bundesliga appearances as a substitute for Freiburg, while Hinds was on the bench for Wolfsburg in their final match before the international break. So too was Sancho for Dortmund’s match away to Augsburg. He has since travelled to India for the Under-17 World Cup, where he has made a strong impression in England’s first two matches, and at 17 is regarded much as Christian Pulisic, the United States playmaker, was when he made his breakthrough at Dortmund two years ago. “Sancho is a huge talent,” Dortmund’s sporting director Michael Zorc said recently. “He’ll need time to settle in, but I’m convinced we’ll have a lot of fun with him in the next few years. We don’t only talk about developing talents. We give them playing time at a high level.”

That is what Oxford is expecting at Mönchengladbach too. He is yet to kick a ball in the Bundesliga and there have been reports that West Ham will activate a clause to recall him in December. Eberl does not deny that Oxford has been frustrated, but he believes the youngster and West Ham would be making a mistake if his German experience is cut short. “Reece wants to play,” Eberl says. “He doesn’t want to wait. I have spoken to him. I said, ‘Reece, it takes two or three months. You have to adapt to German culture, to the Bundesliga, a different style of football.’ Now he is adapting to our training, our approach. For me, he is making great development. We have been able to tell him, ‘You are one short step away from playing. You’re 18. Yes, you played in West Ham’s first team in the Premier League two years ago, but you had a big injury and in the last year you had only five games at Reading. You decided on the right step — here with us — and we will bring you to the level because you will play here.’

“To me, it would make no sense for Reece to go back in December. The example for him is Christensen — not an English player, but another top, talented defender from a Premier League club. Andreas played two years here at the top level, made a huge improvement and is now playing for Chelsea. Reece can do the same — or he could stay in Germany if he wanted to. Yes, there is a clause that they could take him back in December if he plays too few games, but we hope to be able to show Reece and West Ham very soon that he can have a perfect development here this season.”

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Oxford is on loan to Mönchengladbach from West HamGETTY IMAGES
For Egbo, as for Collinge at Stuttgart, it is a more gradual process, but the Mönchengladbach youngster has no regrets. “Absolutely not,” Egbo says. “I can say without any doubt at all it was the best move for me. It has been an experience I wouldn’t swap. It is taking a bit longer than I thought it would, I guess, but that’s not to say it’s not coming. The whole journey has been exactly that — a journey. It has been learning curve after learning curve after learning curve. It has been invaluable.”

Egbo talks positively about the B-team experience in Germany — playing competitive football while, unlike a loan, remaining under his club’s tutelage — but it is the broader aspects of his development that convince him he is in the right place. Collinge moved to Germany in part because it allowed him the opportunity to study for an international baccalaureate. Egbo, too, feels that the move has broadened his mind as well as helping his development as a footballer. “Living away from home, in another country, you have to be so much more mature,” he says. “It has been great for me.”

Where does he want to be in three years? Back in the Premier League? “My plan is to stay here for a long time and play as many Bundesliga games as possible,” Egbo says. “It has been two years and I know I haven’t got anything clear to show for it yet, but I’m more determined than ever. I came out here with a vision. I’ve started it and I’m determined to carry on with it.

“Reece has probably got the same vision for himself — the same with Jadon and the others. I hope it pays off for all of us — including, obviously, the players in the Prem. I would love to see a load of English youngsters get 150 games over the next three years. I’m not saying, ‘The Prem is rubbish. Move out here to get games.’ I want everybody to succeed wherever they are. What is clear is that it’s hard to do that wherever you are, in whichever league or country, but I believe Germany is the best place for me. It looks like others are starting to feel the same.”

These 2 posts reference that, I advise EVERYONE read the BM director's thoughts on English talent. Its what many have been saying. This comes from an unbias source who will have tabs on all top young players in England. When you bare in mind we are one of the top 3 academies in England and have contributed the 3rd most players across the 2 age groups he talks about 99/00s. You will understand why I have been saying for so long that this is England's and even more so our best year groups.

I have said that I believe there are loads of players in the current academy that could go onto play first team for us, moreso than any age group, but not as ready at the moment as Onomah, KPW and to a lesser extent Winks were at the same age.

Players we've contributed to the 99s/00s

99s - Bennetts, Brown, Dinzeyi, Shashoua, Tanganga
00s - TOB, Skipp, Eyoma, Griffiths, Lyons-Foster, Kirby*,Hinds* camp call ups include, Thorpe and Shashoua

Kirby no longer with us
Hinds missed out due to injury

He also mentions the 01s who I personally don't think are as good where we have contributed
Maghoma, Binks, Bowden, Oluwayemi, White

Strangely a coach on twitter believes the 98s are better than the 01s but the 3 we have contributed there who are part of the 2 year groups are Edwards, Whiteman and Sterling.

Finally all of the above doesn't even take into consideration

Roles (Cyprus), Austin (USA), Tsaroulla, Clarke, Patterson, Markanday.

If the Sporting director of Gladback believes that, and considering so many other German clubs are trying to take English players now, think about how good these 2/3 age groups are compared to other players in the world. I've posted various coaches opinions on the 00 age group who have faced them over last 2 years, but this guys comments state what most people can't see. These would be considered golden generations in any other club and country, let's just hope we use them correctly.

I'll also add I've seen some promising players from a few years below, but too early to say where they compare.

Finally Binks has been called up to the Algarve tournament for Eng u17s. He scored an excellent goal against West Ham a volley coming across his body where he opened up his foot
 

Lappi

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
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Even if Edwards is not "ready" for sustained first team action, he should be on the bench for some home league games. If we're 0-0 at 70 mins against a team defending their own box, he's definitely a better option that someone like Sissoko. Bad pressing is less of an issue, and his quick feet could get a crucial pen or free kick. One of the main issues at the moment for us is that our bench tends to have players who are similarish to players already on the pitch, just not as good.
 

Chris Flynn

Well-Known Member
Aug 3, 2012
1,459
3,988
These 2 posts reference that, I advise EVERYONE read the BM director's thoughts on English talent. Its what many have been saying. This comes from an unbias source who will have tabs on all top young players in England. When you bare in mind we are one of the top 3 academies in England and have contributed the 3rd most players across the 2 age groups he talks about 99/00s. You will understand why I have been saying for so long that this is England's and even more so our best year groups.

I have said that I believe there are loads of players in the current academy that could go onto play first team for us, moreso than any age group, but not as ready at the moment as Onomah, KPW and to a lesser extent Winks were at the same age.

Players we've contributed to the 99s/00s

99s - Bennetts, Brown, Dinzeyi, Shashoua, Tanganga
00s - TOB, Skipp, Eyoma, Griffiths, Lyons-Foster, Kirby*,Hinds* camp call ups include, Thorpe and Shashoua

Kirby no longer with us
Hinds missed out due to injury

He also mentions the 01s who I personally don't think are as good where we have contributed
Maghoma, Binks, Bowden, Oluwayemi, White

Strangely a coach on twitter believes the 98s are better than the 01s but the 3 we have contributed there who are part of the 2 year groups are Edwards, Whiteman and Sterling.

Finally all of the above doesn't even take into consideration

Roles (Cyprus), Austin (USA), Tsaroulla, Clarke, Patterson, Markanday.

If the Sporting director of Gladback believes that, and considering so many other German clubs are trying to take English players now, think about how good these 2/3 age groups are compared to other players in the world. I've posted various coaches opinions on the 00 age group who have faced them over last 2 years, but this guys comments state what most people can't see. These would be considered golden generations in any other club and country, let's just hope we use them correctly.

I'll also add I've seen some promising players from a few years below, but too early to say where they compare.

Finally Binks has been called up to the Algarve tournament for Eng u17s. He scored an excellent goal against West Ham a volley coming across his body where he opened up his foot
Ive always been a big proponent of bringing players through. Do you not think there is a glacially slow chanhe in attitude to this at Spurs? I feel it a bit but obviously there are many who are short sighted
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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Ive always been a big proponent of bringing players through. Do you not think there is a glacially slow chanhe in attitude to this at Spurs? I feel it a bit but obviously there are many who are short sighted

I assume you mean the fans. If so yes maybe glacial. The more coaches, and people like the guy from Gladbach speak up maybe the more fans will listen, but things haven't changed much.

I and many other youth watchers views on this forum have been mocked or we're called 'experts' or deluded or biased or arrogant, but you get used to it. I just tend to get less involved in and rather post more informative stuff as it gets tiring debating the same points, but credit where it's due some people will continue to argue the point.

An example somewhat related to the Gladbach story. A load of people rated Milos, I and others dared suggest he could be squad player, I might have even suggested we could have used him instead of buying McCarthy or Dier, or that he may one day be better, I can't remember the specifics.I remember people writing mocking comments that I didn't respond to 'can you believe the experts think Milos is good enough for so and so'. Dier is 2 year groups older than Milos, and I like him as a squad player don't get me wrong, but I think he has his flaws, and I've seen if you criticise Dier people aren't happy, but he serves a great purpose as a utility player.

Milos couldn't see he would get a chance here (surprise surprise). As we've read the German clubs keep an eye on top English talent and they picked up Milos. He had to adapt to a new club and country. For whatever reason some of the Spurs fans saw his initial struggle and quickly posted here to show they were right. I don't know what enjoyment Spurs fans get from seeing a Spurs product fail, but there you go. Anyway eventually and as expected Milos starting establishing himself. I was reading a Werder Bremen forum tonight and they love him, they keep wanting him to sign a contract, someone described him as a 'genius' another as their best player, but mostly very very positive reviews. They're also impressed with how he can play anywhere in a back 3. WB aren't doing great but their defense is one of the best.

Now they're actually talking about looking forward to an English club buying him so they can get a load of money especially as he is homegrown. The Germans are actually taking our players and wanting to sell them back for massive profit. Anyway, Milos now has got into Serbia's squad and could be going to the World Cup.

Funnily enough he is now in a similar position to Dier despite being 2 years younger. Dier isn't a guaranteed starter for us if everyone was fit, and all I ever suggested was Milos to get chances as a squad player. Could Milos do what Dier has been doing for us, I have no doubt in my mind he could. Dier is playing at a better club, because the English club, as the Germans say can't bring their own players through, and would rather look abroad, and buy. The Germans do what they've been talking about recently and snap up the the English academy player and do what the PL can't do. If we had shown patience with Milos and given him his chance with better players around him, and in a comfortable setting he may be even better than he is now. Ironically Milos counts as homegrown while Dier doesn't and so would have brought even more value. I can't predict how either of those 2 will go on to develop, but the attitude and stick given to people who dared to rate our homegrown player is quite sad. That aspect seems to have changed but maybe it was because Milos was a sore sport and people get defensive when you question the club or management.

Fortunately as we haven't had loans we haven't had to read this as much, but you still get the ill informed 'if so and so can't get into that Championship team then clearly they're not good enough' which is so depressing to read.

You still get the belief that any talented player will get a chance and the cream will always rise to the top. There is still the belief that mangers will always give chance if a young player is good enough and there is no reason he would not despite there being many reasons as to why PL managers don't give academy players. Even coaches from abroad see it, but PL fans are generally blind to it. Though I feel that is somewhat changing and people are beginning to see a problem, but realistically no one can change anything but the managers, so whether or not fans change their opinion won't affect who starts.

Anyway I think views are slow to change. A lot of people still believe young English players are brutes with no skill and the PL is footballing nirvana that can't be reached unless you are World Class forgetting that everyone started somewhere. The recent success of English youth football has helped but I think ultimately while most would love a World Class academy player like Kane to come through they are reluctant to see it happen at the risk of results and will happily go for the easier option of signing foreign players and justify the academy player not getting a chance with all kind of reasons
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
Even if Edwards is not "ready" for sustained first team action, he should be on the bench for some home league games. If we're 0-0 at 70 mins against a team defending their own box, he's definitely a better option that someone like Sissoko. Bad pressing is less of an issue, and his quick feet could get a crucial pen or free kick. One of the main issues at the moment for us is that our bench tends to have players who are similarish to players already on the pitch, just not as good.

Our managers main philosophy is that you earn your place in the team and match day squad through hard work on the training ground. We've never had a better, more hard working, harmonious squad as a result. He mustn't start cherry picking youngsters based on ability alone, they have to buy into the philosophy. I have no problem if Edwards doesn't make it but it would be a shame if he doesn't do everything he can to maximise his own talent.
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,873
15,942
Edwards has been very good in 1st team training recently. Doesn’t look out of place at all. He belongs there but it will take time. Some more sessions in the gym and some tactical work off the ball and we have a real star in the making.

Just to let you know, Ajax offered £7.5m for Marcus in the summer. They done it to prove a point to English clubs that we have home grown players yet we buy youngsters from abroad. The offer was really considered but Spurs then acted quickly and put a substantial offer together for Marcus.

That's really interesting. Thanks for the info.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,957
These 2 posts reference that, I advise EVERYONE read the BM director's thoughts on English talent. Its what many have been saying. This comes from an unbias source who will have tabs on all top young players in England. When you bare in mind we are one of the top 3 academies in England and have contributed the 3rd most players across the 2 age groups he talks about 99/00s. You will understand why I have been saying for so long that this is England's and even more so our best year groups.

I have said that I believe there are loads of players in the current academy that could go onto play first team for us, moreso than any age group, but not as ready at the moment as Onomah, KPW and to a lesser extent Winks were at the same age.

Players we've contributed to the 99s/00s

99s - Bennetts, Brown, Dinzeyi, Shashoua, Tanganga
00s - TOB, Skipp, Eyoma, Griffiths, Lyons-Foster, Kirby*,Hinds* camp call ups include, Thorpe and Shashoua

Kirby no longer with us
Hinds missed out due to injury

He also mentions the 01s who I personally don't think are as good where we have contributed
Maghoma, Binks, Bowden, Oluwayemi, White

Strangely a coach on twitter believes the 98s are better than the 01s but the 3 we have contributed there who are part of the 2 year groups are Edwards, Whiteman and Sterling.

Finally all of the above doesn't even take into consideration

Roles (Cyprus), Austin (USA), Tsaroulla, Clarke, Patterson, Markanday.

If the Sporting director of Gladback believes that, and considering so many other German clubs are trying to take English players now, think about how good these 2/3 age groups are compared to other players in the world. I've posted various coaches opinions on the 00 age group who have faced them over last 2 years, but this guys comments state what most people can't see. These would be considered golden generations in any other club and country, let's just hope we use them correctly.

I'll also add I've seen some promising players from a few years below, but too early to say where they compare.

Finally Binks has been called up to the Algarve tournament for Eng u17s. He scored an excellent goal against West Ham a volley coming across his body where he opened up his foot

It's good for the national team (as long as they don't get dual nationality) if they take the English players though because they'll get first team football. Let's be fair, the players at Chelsea and Man City aren't going to be given a chance in the first team and I expect the chances with us are going to be fairly slim too.
 

Lappi

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2006
209
436
Our managers main philosophy is that you earn your place in the team and match day squad through hard work on the training ground. We've never had a better, more hard working, harmonious squad as a result. He mustn't start cherry picking youngsters based on ability alone, they have to buy into the philosophy. I have no problem if Edwards doesn't make it but it would be a shame if he doesn't do everything he can to maximise his own talent.

Very fair point. Does depend a bit on circumstances though - we didn't really need 4 full backs on the bench on Tuesday!
 
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