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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Fowl!

Active Member
Oct 17, 2017
224
255
The acid test will England looking after and sticking with these kids irrespective of club form and opportunity.

If they do so then it may be a very clever far sighted policy.

If Southgate can foster a club mentality at England then he might just become the most important English manager since Clough.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
The acid test will England looking after and sticking with these kids irrespective of club form and opportunity.

If they do so then it may be a very clever far sighted policy.

If Southgate can foster a club mentality at England then he might just become the most important English manager since Clough.

I think that's his plan, keep the talented youngsters together. He knows they;re more than good enough for the PL, and they are a lot better than the other options available. So if he can bring through the u21 players and back up the first team then we'd have a very strong but inexperienced squad.

I have no problem in dropping the players if they are getting fair game time and not performing, but if they just aren't getting chances by virtue of being an academy player trying to establish himself in the PL then it's not a fair chance and he should try them out.
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
if trippier(or any first teamer) gets complacent and allows their level to drop or doesn't push as hard as they can to improve then maybe they don't have the right mentality to succeed here. harry kane hasn't had any real competition for his place in the last three years yet he's gotten better and better so there's no excuse for others not to do the same. as if we don't put enough hurdles in the way of young players now we're going to blame them if/when the seniors aren't playing to their maximum capacity as well?

Completely agree, comes down to whether some players have that winning mentality or not.

Something we have struggled with throughout the 90's in particular where we'd have players that could be outstanding on their day but then play way below their ability level on another.

An example of this being Lennon who went through a lull and then once we bought in Bentley he upped a level again and showed his true ability again before sadly dropping his standards again.

Walker also seemed to need Trippier to push him on further as did Rose when we purchased Davies.

During this particular time we were in desperate need of players that had 'balls' really.

We have a lot more in our first eleven that have that winning mentality and just need to top it up with some back up options that also have that so when they come in there isn't a drop in standards.
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
2,744
7,424
Three #YoungLions sides are in action today:

Bulgaria
#U19EURO qualifier
⏰ 12.30pm (GMT)
Stara Zagora, Bulgaria

Germany
U20 tournament
⏰ 5pm (GMT)
Zwickau, Germany

Germany
U17 tournament
⏰ 7pm
@OfficialRUFC

No sure if any are televised
 

mancman

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2006
363
688
Our u16s beat United 2-1 today -IGspur.

You really are a font of knowledge and information on Youth football. By any chance do you know who scored and indeed who played. If the game was played at Carrington I could have watched it. Also if possible could you enlighten me on the U14 squad. I know of Khalon Haysman and the surnames of three others - Scarlett, Forson and Casanova and that's it. My knowledge of the U15's is restricted to knowing of Dermi Lusala, the Craig twins, Tobi Oluwayemi and Nile John (all current Eng U15 trialists) so if you could possibly enlighten me I would be grateful.
Mancman
 

nightgoat

Well-Known Member
Sep 12, 2005
24,604
21,898
Given the last fifty years of abject failure, it might be time to rethink how we build an England squad, and allow the manager to choose a group of players who provide the right blend of attributes rather than questioning whether they have 'earned' the right to be in there in the first place. Winks hadn't earned his spot when he was called up if you asked anyone outside Tottenham, but everyone that had watched him knew he was worth a go and he quickly proved it. I wouldn't have said Ruben Loftus-Cheek deserved a call-up either, but he was superb on Friday night and has now created another option for a position (ball-playing midfielder) that we're not stacked with. There was criticism of Rashford's call-up when he first got the nod, he scored within about 0.6 of a second on his debut and is now a regular starter and one of our biggest attacking threats.

We have a real lack of striker options at the moment due to injuries and general shiteness, so why not give the likes of Abraham and Solanke a go? It's a friendly, they're designed for this sort of experimentation - I'd rather young kids like those two, who might potentially have a big future for England, get the call-up than the alternatives like Rodriguez or Deeney, who are unlikely to have any real impact in the short-term and almost definitely have no future in the squad long-term.

It's also worth bearing in mind that, unlike most England managers before him, Southgate has a detailed knowledge of all the u21 players, which will be influencing his decision-making. You might have seen 85 minutes of Solanke across 7 games and been unimpressed, but Southgate will have seen him regularly in training and spotted something that he thinks is worth a go. It might work, it might not, but at least he's trying something new.

Yeah, there's certainly more value in calling up a 20 year old, albeit one unproven at anything other than youth levels, than say turning to someone like Peter Crouch for a friendly. But Southgate has been rightly praised for not recalling the likes of Wilshere the second they become available again due to lack of game time so it is not unreasonable to question the validity of Solanke getting a cap just because of what he's done for the u20s.

The comparison with Winks and Rashford doesn't really stack up though. Rashford made his debut at the end of a season where he had unexpectedly broken through and scored regularly for the Utd first team in the PL and EL. Winks has been a regular in and around our first team since his PL debut last season and is trusted enough by Pochettino to start both home and away against Real Madrid. Maybe he'll come on and do great and put pressure on Klopp to play him more often, but it would put Southgate in a difficult position to be seen having one rule for some players and another for others.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Three #YoungLions sides are in action today:

Bulgaria
#U19EURO qualifier
⏰ 12.30pm (GMT)
Stara Zagora, Bulgaria

Germany
U20 tournament
⏰ 5pm (GMT)
Zwickau, Germany

Germany
U17 tournament
⏰ 7pm
@OfficialRUFC

No sure if any are televised

Fearing the 54 game undefeated run could be in jeopardy with x2 Germany games.
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
2,744
7,424
We’re through to the next stage of the #U19EURO qualifiers with a per cent record, after a 1-0 win over hosts Bulgaria.

Here’s our report: the-fa.com/KO8jOw
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
8,274
12,242
if trippier(or any first teamer) gets complacent and allows their level to drop or doesn't push as hard as they can to improve then maybe they don't have the right mentality to succeed here. harry kane hasn't had any real competition for his place in the last three years yet he's gotten better and better so there's no excuse for others not to do the same. as if we don't put enough hurdles in the way of young players now we're going to blame them if/when the seniors aren't playing to their maximum capacity as well?

Then you should explain that to top managers like, say, Guardiola, Conte, Jose, Fergie etc. They all make sure that every now and then they bring in a new player to increase the competition in the team/squad and keep certain players from getting complacent.
Sure, Kane is one of the exceptions but his path to the 1st team was anything but a stroll on the beach. He had to work very hard to just get into the 1st team (unlike with, say, Edwards or Onomah, I don't recall many - if any - demanding Kane to be played in the 1st team when he was 17-18 years). That may have helped him to keep working on his game.Yes, there are other exceptions, of course – Messi, Iniesta, Ronaldo I, Ronaldo II, to name a few in recent time – but some players get better by being pushed a little or a lot.
And that is not something I am saying for matter of sake but facts that are well known in team sport. And which is why so many teams use sports psychologists.
For example, why are player much fitter now than during Harry Redknapp's rule? Why didn't the players push themselves doing extra training rather having to have Pochettino & co. to push them? And why did it require a Pochettino to dispel the “it's Spurs” mentality?
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Then you should explain that to top managers like, say, Guardiola, Conte, Jose, Fergie etc. They all make sure that every now and then they bring in a new player to increase the competition in the team/squad and keep certain players from getting complacent.
Sure, Kane is one of the exceptions but his path to the 1st team was anything but a stroll on the beach. He had to work very hard to just get into the 1st team (unlike with, say, Edwards or Onomah, I don't recall many - if any - demanding Kane to be played in the 1st team when he was 17-18 years). That may have helped him to keep working on his game.Yes, there are other exceptions, of course – Messi, Iniesta, Ronaldo I, Ronaldo II, to name a few in recent time – but some players get better by being pushed a little or a lot.
And that is not something I am saying for matter of sake but facts that are well known in team sport. And which is why so many teams use sports psychologists.
For example, why are player much fitter now than during Harry Redknapp's rule? Why didn't the players push themselves doing extra training rather having to have Pochettino & co. to push them? And why did it require a Pochettino to dispel the “it's Spurs” mentality?

you've gone off on a bunch of different tangents here so i'm not really sure where to start but i especially don't get the point about onomah or edwards, how have they had it easy? we're at a time now where it's harder than ever for young players to make it, in this country at least anyway. yes they receive great coaching, get to use the best facilities and are mollycoddled to some/a large degree but the ultimate goal of playing in the first team is further away than it's ever been and your original point about not having kwp as back-up because trippier's level would drop is just one in a long line of examples of today's attitude towards youth players. not only can kwp not be 2nd choice because he's apparently not ready or omg he might make a mistake like putting in a dumb tackle and getting sent off ... or making a brainless challenge inside the box and giving away a penalty .. but he also can't be back-up because It might negatively affect the first teamers? sheesh.

as for the point about those managers wanting more good players to choose from, well that's hardly some genius ground-breaking formula they've devised between them, of course they want something that'll make their job easier. i just think it's convenient to say oh trippier's gotten better because of aurier, trippier was playing well at the back end of last season and now he's carrying that on now he's getting consistent game-time, if his level drops then that's on him, no one else.
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
8,274
12,242
you've gone off on a bunch of different tangents here so i'm not really sure where to start but i especially don't get the point about onomah or edwards, how have they had it easy? we're at a time now where it's harder than ever for young players to make it, in this country at least anyway. yes they receive great coaching, get to use the best facilities and are mollycoddled to some/a large degree but the ultimate goal of playing in the first team is further away than it's ever been and your original point about not having kwp as back-up because trippier's level would drop is just one in a long line of examples of today's attitude towards youth players. not only can kwp not be 2nd choice because he's apparently not ready or omg he might make a mistake like putting in a dumb tackle and getting sent off ... or making a brainless challenge inside the box and giving away a penalty .. but he also can't be back-up because It might negatively affect the first teamers? sheesh.

as for the point about those managers wanting more good players to choose from, well that's hardly some genius ground-breaking formula they've devised between them, of course they want something that'll make their job easier. i just think it's convenient to say oh trippier's gotten better because of aurier, trippier was playing well at the back end of last season and now he's carrying that on now he's getting consistent game-time, if his level drops then that's on him, no one else.

What you basically are saying is that you know better than Pochettino when it comes to playing KPW and buying players, in this case a new RB. Why don't you give Pochettino a call and explain to him that he was wrong in buying Aurier instead of giving KWP a chance as 2nd choice RB.
In case you did not know it, young players are easier affected negatively from mistakes than experienced players. Yes, I am aware of Aurier's rash and hash tackles but...can you guarantee that KWP would not have made any mistakes at all had he playes instead?
Again, it is not something I am claiming, but proven for decades in top sport: qualtiy players pushes each others to get the best out of each others and thus get better. And it helps motivation to be pushed.
Trippier has certainly upped his game this season. I am not claiming that is necessarily because of the arrival of Aurier but a fiercer competition for the RB cerataily won't harm him.
 
Last edited:

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
https://www.standard.co.uk/sport/fo...jose-mourinho-at-chelsea-claims-a3689451.html

However, Loftus-Cheek's father, Trevor, told the Daily Mail that he felt his son's development had been hampered while former Blues boss Mourinho was in the Stamford Bridge hotseat for a second spell between 2013 to 2015, during which time Chelsea sold Kevin De Bruyne and Romelu Lukaku.

"Jose Mourinho held him back," said Loftus-Cheek's father. "He should have been playing.

"Everyone behind the scenes was asking: 'why isn’t he playing?'"

"If Ruben was playing for Mauricio Pochettino, he’d have 70, 80, 90 first team appearances by now."

Didn't he recently sign a new contract with Chelsea?

Wasnt that bothered about first team football then was he, preferred the £35k a week wages instead!
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
8,274
12,242
Didn't he recently sign a new contract with Chelsea?

Wasnt that bothered about first team football then was he, preferred the £35k a week wages instead!

Yes, until 2021 but that was back in 2016.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/fo...Cheek-signs-five-year-contract-extension.html

His father did not mention Conte though - despite of him also not giving his son much playing time.
And, as you said, why didn't his father think of 1st team footy back then when Chelski waved lots of money in front of him...
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
What you basically are saying is that you know better than Pochettino when it comes to playing KPW and buying players, in this case a new RB. Why don't you give Pochettino a call and explain to him that he was wrong in buying Aurier instead of giving KWP a chance as 2nd choice RB.
In case you did not know it, young players are easier affacted negatively from mistakes than experienced players. Yes, I am aware of Aurier's rash and hash tackles but...can you guarantee that KWP would not have made any mistakes at all had he playes instead?
Again, it is not something I am claiming, but proven for decades in top sport: qualtiy players pushes each others to get the best out of each others and thus get better. And it helps motivation to be pushed.
Trippier has certainly upped his game this season. I am not claiming that is necessarily because of the arrival of Aurier but a fiercer competition for the RB cerataily won't harm him.

this old chestnut again. it's ok to question poch's team selections .. his tactics .. formations .. subs .. signings .... you name it, but his use of youth players, no way man, that's just too far. i can't really be bothered to go around in circles as these debates always go the same way, fact is we have a very talented young player not playing and with no pathway into first team football here and for me that's sad but whatever, it's not the first time it'll happen and it won't be the last.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
u20s 2-0 down at half time, edwards has been decent in spells but england not posing much of an attacking threat. keeper at fault for the 2nd.
 

Hoddle&Waddle

Well-Known Member
Nov 25, 2012
8,337
17,565
The acid test will England looking after and sticking with these kids irrespective of club form and opportunity.

If they do so then it may be a very clever far sighted policy.

If Southgate can foster a club mentality at England then he might just become the most important English manager since Clough.
Encouraging them to move to Clubs where they will play and develop is the key. Picking players that dont play just encourages them to sit in a big clubs reserves picking up a hefty pay cheque. And the cycle continues...
 

Dharmabum

Well-Known Member
Aug 16, 2003
8,274
12,242
this old chestnut again. it's ok to question poch's team selections .. his tactics .. formations .. subs .. signings .... you name it, but his use of youth players, no way man, that's just too far. i can't really be bothered to go around in circles as these debates always go the same way, fact is we have a very talented young player not playing and with no pathway into first team football here and for me that's sad but whatever, it's not the first time it'll happen and it won't be the last.

If he really is good enough KWP will indeed make it as a 1st team regular. And I am all for giving him the chances to prove himself.
 
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