The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[mugpunt]

I find it strange that when contemplating where to put Winks to give room to Onoma the thought is forwards rather than backward tbh. I see a lot of Carrick in him as a DM and Onoma as a Dembelle type

 

[coy-spurs1882]

from itk thread:

dragon1: We are well run we do not let contracts run out ,Edwards is a problem his heads not 100% right will see what season brings but poch is all about team ethos and work ethic , either he ships up or he will be on way
Those bitching about walker , was poch decision , Walker wanted to play more and they disagreed on a couple of other things and poch was done , levy did not push the sale

 

[GetSpurredOn]

Onomah definitely appears to have more confidence. Maybe that's what the U20 World Cup win has done. In previous appearances in AM he would disappear, today it appears he came looking for work, injected himself into the game. Good to see. Maybe that confidence was the missing ingredient, always had talent, but failed to replicate his youth football form, perhaps he struggled to feel he belonged in that company.

 

[yanno]

Onomah definitely appears to have more confidence. Maybe that's what the U20 World Cup win has done. In previous appearances in AM he would disappear, today it appears he came looking for work, infected himself into the game. Good to see. Maybe that confidence was the missing ingredient, always had talent, but failed to replicate his youth football form, perhaps he struggled to feel he belonged in that company.

Agreed.

I still hope Poch finally starts playing him in his natural position as a CM. But if he insists on playing him as an AM, I hope he has the license to rotate and move centrally on occasion where he's clearly more effective.

There was one lovely cross by KWP (better anything Walker delivered last year) which Josh volleyed over from close in. It looked like he was distracted by all the bodies in front of him as the ball came over. But he'd got deep into the box and,if Onomah had put that one away, the write-ups on KWP and Josh would have been ever better.

 

[Blake Griffin]

kwp did well for the most part, a little conservative which is understandable but played some intelligent passes and clipped in a great ball for nkoudou. only mark against him was the goal, it looked bad but when we're in possession like that then the fullbacks always push high, it wasn't derpy positioning but perhaps a tad naïve. not a great night for ccv and he's always vulnerable when the game opens up like that, only positive was his calmness in possession. onomah was better and i thought he worked diligently off the ball but still, all of his best moments came when he dropped in around the centre circle ... if we can't play him there in a friendly then when will he ever get a chance there? tob wasn't terribly involved, kept moving around to try and find pockets of space but just couldn't get on the ball, good experience for him though.

 

[ComfortablyNumb]

Agreed.

I still hope Poch finally starts playing him in his natural position as a CM. But if he insists on playing him as an AM, I hope he has the license to rotate and move centrally on occasion where he's clearly more effective.

There was one lovely cross by KWP (better anything Walker delivered last year) which Josh volleyed over from close in. It looked like he was distracted by all the bodies in front of him as the ball came over. But he'd got deep into the box and,if Onomah had put that one away, the write-ups on KWP and Josh would have been ever better.

Think that was GKN.

 

[mpickard2087]

So from last night:

Felt Onomah was competent on the ball and grew into the half that he played. Wasn't the most diligent with his tracking back on the right, kept getting drawn into the centre and was often doing KWP no favours.

KWP was fine in both attack and defence. Little conservative and playing it safe on the ball, but was adventurous in his positioning and put in one beauty of a cross. I'd like to see the second goal conceded again, he probably did dawdle back a bit but he would have been high and wide for the goal kick, and we lost the ball immediately from it in our third...

CCV wasn't all bad, but he a) looked a bit panicky when defending and his positioning was a bit haywire, which wasn't helped by our pressing/compactness not always being the best and allowing them occasions to have the ball and go at our back four, and b) he's going to be in trouble if he cant get lighter and more nimble on his feet. You cant afford to be clunky.

Winks was steady enough and just seemed to be easing himself back into it. Not always convinced him and Wanyama is the best partnership, but that's for another discussion.

TOB slotted in fairly well. Didn't see a huge amount of ball, but he was pretty disciplined in his role on the right and in tracking back and helping Trippier.

 

[yanno]

Think that was GKN.

My bad - watching a pixellated feed with no audio....

 

[Krafty]

Glad the youngsters were given good time in the friendly. I'm not too worried about our lack of transfer activity if it means Onomah, KWP, CCV et al get a little more game time and exposure. I'll be upset if we sign players a la Sissoko - regardless of the fee - who aren't going to compete properly with the core team, but get in the way of a good prospect getting half a dozen games.

On Edwards, as much as skill and ability is important, you have to have the mental skills to keep pushing yourself. An extreme example might be Taarabt, who arguably had the most 'talent' of anyone to come through recently but mentally was very weak. I don't think Edwards is anywhere that bad, but if he doesn't have the inner drive to push on, learn, improve, work, then he won't be good enough for Poch's team, so why bend over backwards for him?


I don't know what the real situation is, none of us do, but Poch is a well paid and reputed manager, who has excelled at improving our team and players. If in his judgement Edwards isn't doing enough, then I'll trust him. He does give people a chance if they work hard, and if Edwards works hard allied with his natural ability, he will do very well.

Perhaps, ultimately, that's not the type of environment Edwards thrives in, but given its worked for Kane, Alli, Rose etc, I think we should stick with it

 

[Spurzinho]

So from last night:

Felt Onomah was competent on the ball and grew into the half that he played. Wasn't the most diligent with his tracking back on the right, kept getting drawn into the centre and was often doing KWP no favours.

Fair. He's just not at his best that high up the pitch. I'm not getting into the whole reason behind that again.

KWP was fine in both attack and defence. Little conservative and playing it safe on the ball, but was adventurous in his positioning and put in one beauty of a cross. I'd like to see the second goal conceded again, he probably did dawdle back a bit but he would have been high and wide for the goal kick, and we lost the ball immediately from it in our third...

I thought he had a very patchy game tbh. Some of his defensive work was very suspect. His positioning for the second goal was partly a team f*ck up but also not being alive to what was going on around him. KWP being high and wide was just him following instructions, the lack of wide support for him was also due to the seeming lack of danger. Where the problems originated was (a) in sloppily giving up possession on the left and (b) CCV not alerting KWP that there were unmarked players behind KWP sooner. KWP, himself should have been sharper, he was slow to see the situation developing. There was clearly a major danger in their scorer standing in so much space, that close to goal.

In an ideal world, CCV is talking to KWP, telling him drop off a bit because of the free man, KWP should have been talking to Onomah telling him to drop off and fill on the right. Thats what experienced players would have done, but our entire right side from CB to RB to RW were young and inexperienced.

CCV wasn't all bad, but he a) looked a bit panicky when defending and his positioning was a bit haywire, which wasn't helped by our pressing/compactness not always being the best and allowing them occasions to have the ball and go at our back four, and b) he's going to be in trouble if he cant get lighter and more nimble on his feet. You cant afford to be clunky.

Have to agree. Its early in pre-season and everyone looked a bit heavy legged at times but CCV more than most. He looked very sharp and at it at the beginning of last season but since then he's really dropped off. He might need a load to freshen himself up because its clear that twiddling his thumbs on the bench, in the stands and going through the paces at U23 is not helping him.

 

[Flashspur]

Anyone thinking KWP and CCV are ready for the PL is deluded. They have a way to go. The PSG game is evidence of that. In fact KWP as back up for Tripps scares the shit out of me. As for Edwards the little fellow. He is good in small cameos at his age level but.has to show more potential. Long long way from the PL.

 

[cliff jones]

I think @Blake Griffin hit the nail on the head with Winks, it's not so much about the physical attributes with him (he's no less quick over 5-10 yards than Eriksen and he's a fuck site more dexterous and technically sharp than Alli is in tight spaces) it's about his mental skill set, the way he thinks and sees the game. Some players are just more productive in different ways and different areas due to the way they are mentally made up. Some players thrive on involvement (Winks) some thrive on moments (Alli), if you're lucky you very occasionally get both hybrid (Eriksen).

You're being unfair on Alli here. He's a risk taker, whereas we've not seen that in Winks yet. Different positions, and requirements from the coach, yeah. But Alli thinks and sees pretty well in finding and using space in the last third, where options are much more limited than in the midfield mix.

 

[cliff jones]

I'm disappointed we haven't replaced Walker, but think KWP could do OK if we play three at the back.

What then really worries me is how close CCV is to a starting place. Yeah, I know, Poch is a great coach, was a CB himself and he knows better than me. But I just don't see the strengths, the usp, nothing. We desperately need to sign someone in this position, if we are to stay competitive when Toby or Dier are not in the side.

 

[yanno]

I'm disappointed we haven't replaced Walker, but think KWP could do OK if we play three at the back.

I agree. I think in the 3 CB system, KWP's ability to beat a man and his intelligent passing will be a real strength.

In a back four, I can imagine managers like Mourinho and Pulis attempting to bully him with big tall players. Mourinho's idea of cutting edge tactical coaching would probably involve instructing both Fellaini & Lukaku to play on KWP's side of the pitch.

But KWP is very quick on the turn, which should be an asset defending against a small tricky player like Hazard. In American football, coaches and scouts talk about wanting cornerbacks with "fluid hips", meaning they can change direction quickly when a fast player runs at them. KWP is very agile and, with more experience, could be effective defensively against the Zahas, Sterlings and Hazards of this world.

 

[mpickard2087]

I'm disappointed we haven't replaced Walker, but think KWP could do OK if we play three at the back.

What then really worries me is how close CCV is to a starting place. Yeah, I know, Poch is a great coach, was a CB himself and he knows better than me. But I just don't see the strengths, the usp, nothing. We desperately need to sign someone in this position, if we are to stay competitive when Toby or Dier are not in the side.

CCV is 5th choice centre back. I wouldn't be against replacing Wimmer with another ball player at left-sided centre back, but if we keep things as they are we are hardly facing a crisis in that position.

 

[mpickard2087]

I thought he had a very patchy game tbh. Some of his defensive work was very suspect.

I think that's a bit harsh. I think there were times where the CCV-Dier-KWP 'triangle' wasn't very well organised/compact but individually I don't think KWP did a lot wrong defensively if you take the 2nd goal out of it. The worst moment arguably was when he got too tight and too eager to win the ball on the side of the penalty area, got rolled, but he still recovered to make the tackle.

Defensive side of the game is obviously his weaker aspect, and he isn't often perfect with his positioning, but I didn't see much that worried me in that 45 minutes.

 

[Bulletspur]

And if we play 4231 against Newcastle son and Lamela aren't fit.And who knows what will happen with Lamela.Nkoudou looked poor tonight.Sissoko is a right off.We really need another AM before season starts imo

Excuse me...... nkoudou looked poor? What were you watching

You beat me to it! He was constantly giving the very experienced Dani Alves problems. A clear example of someone with a certain mindset unwilling to change their views despite facts to the contrary imo

 

[thekneaf]

You beat me to it! He was constantly giving the very experienced Dani Alves problems. A clear example of someone with a certain mindset unwilling to change their views despite facts to the contrary imo

Not seen the game, but really glad that Nkoudou is getting good write ups. Some very positive stuff about applying himself more at the back end of last season. Who knows, he could yet turn into a real asset for us.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Glad the youngsters were given good time in the friendly. I'm not too worried about our lack of transfer activity if it means Onomah, KWP, CCV et al get a little more game time and exposure. I'll be upset if we sign players a la Sissoko - regardless of the fee - who aren't going to compete properly with the core team, but get in the way of a good prospect getting half a dozen games.

On Edwards, as much as skill and ability is important, you have to have the mental skills to keep pushing yourself. An extreme example might be Taarabt, who arguably had the most 'talent' of anyone to come through recently but mentally was very weak. I don't think Edwards is anywhere that bad, but if he doesn't have the inner drive to push on, learn, improve, work, then he won't be good enough for Poch's team, so why bend over backwards for him?


I don't know what the real situation is, none of us do, but Poch is a well paid and reputed manager, who has excelled at improving our team and players. If in his judgement Edwards isn't doing enough, then I'll trust him. He does give people a chance if they work hard, and if Edwards works hard allied with his natural ability, he will do very well.

Perhaps, ultimately, that's not the type of environment Edwards thrives in, but given its worked for Kane, Alli, Rose etc, I think we should stick with it

he may think he's pushing himself by looking at other clubs where he may get to play sooner. i think that's primarily what it boils down to, our timing isn't aligning with his so he's looking at other options. i don't think it's really a case of work ethic, more that poch wants total selflessness from all of his squad and in his eyes maybe edwards is too much "me" and not enough "team". honestly, i don't see this ending the way we hope, previously i thought there's no way we'd end up allowing such a talent to leave(i don't personally place the likes of veljkovic, albeit a good player, in the same category) but it's not looking good, even a seemingly innocuous point like dinzeyi taking his squad number(as @THFCSPURS19 pointed out) is yet another sign possibly pointing towards him no longer being part of first team considerations.

 

[mpickard2087]

You beat me to it! He was constantly giving the very experienced Dani Alves problems. A clear example of someone with a certain mindset unwilling to change their views despite facts to the contrary imo

Not seen the game, but really glad that Nkoudou is getting good write ups. Some very positive stuff about applying himself more at the back end of last season. Who knows, he could yet turn into a real asset for us.

Nkoudou was.... well, Nkoudou. Fuck all had changed. But his player thread is the discussion for that.