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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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You're being unfair on Alli here. He's a risk taker, whereas we've not seen that in Winks yet. Different positions, and requirements from the coach, yeah. But Alli thinks and sees pretty well in finding and using space in the last third, where options are much more limited than in the midfield mix.

I don't get why you think I'm not acknowledging that, as that's what I'm saying. I don't think Winks would produce anything like Alli does in the final third, and I don't think Alli would produce the metronomic qualities that a team needs that Winks does in the middle third.

Alli is more about explosive moments, but will contribute much less in terms of volume, build up and game play, Winks will see miuch moe of the ball and contribute much more to the structural game play but just wouldn't be able to produce what Alli does as an auxiliary forward.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
People need to remember in regard to KWP this was possibly the best quality opposition he has ever faced.He was having to deal with cavane and pastore this wasn't our old style orient away pre season.It was top quality opponents,and on the whole I thought he did very well.If he does become back up it's unlikely he will feature in the bigger games Unless trip gets injured.So we are talkin cat C league games and cup games.Fir me he looks ready for that,also will have Toby next to him not Ccv.
Special mention as well for TOB .At 17 was on pitch with top quality world class players and didn't look out of place at all.Also noticed he seems to have real pace more so than winks and onomah will be very interesting how it plays out with those 3 all fighting g for same position.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
People need to remember in regard to KWP this was possibly the best quality opposition he has ever faced.He was having to deal with cavane and pastore this wasn't our old style orient away pre season.It was top quality opponents,and on the whole I thought he did very well.If he does become back up it's unlikely he will feature in the bigger games Unless trip gets injured.So we are talkin cat C league games and cup games.Fir me he looks ready for that,also will have Toby next to him not Ccv.
Special mention as well for TOB .At 17 was on pitch with top quality world class players and didn't look out of place at all.Also noticed he seems to have real pace more so than winks and onomah will be very interesting how it plays out with those 3 all fighting g for same position.


Indeed, and if he does feature in PL games it will be with a first choice pair or trio of CB's, better protection from midfield or AM around him and a team in that is "at it" organisationally and cohesively, as opposed to an ad hoc side playing it's first pre season friendly in a strange environment.
 

Westmorland

Active Member
May 21, 2014
290
449
So from last night:

Felt Onomah was competent on the ball and grew into the half that he played. Wasn't the most diligent with his tracking back on the right, kept getting drawn into the centre and was often doing KWP no favours.

KWP was fine in both attack and defence. Little conservative and playing it safe on the ball, but was adventurous in his positioning and put in one beauty of a cross. I'd like to see the second goal conceded again, he probably did dawdle back a bit but he would have been high and wide for the goal kick, and we lost the ball immediately from it in our third...

CCV wasn't all bad, but he a) looked a bit panicky when defending and his positioning was a bit haywire, which wasn't helped by our pressing/compactness not always being the best and allowing them occasions to have the ball and go at our back four, and b) he's going to be in trouble if he cant get lighter and more nimble on his feet. You cant afford to be clunky.

Winks was steady enough and just seemed to be easing himself back into it. Not always convinced him and Wanyama is the best partnership, but that's for another discussion.

TOB slotted in fairly well. Didn't see a huge amount of ball, but he was pretty disciplined in his role on the right and in tracking back and helping Trippier.
In last seasons friendlies Winks showed that he was ready for the first team. I think that KWP will show the same. Trippier is a good but not outstanding full back. It would not surprise me if KWP is first choice by the end of the season, especially if we play a back three most of the time. Reminds me of Steven Carr in that he has had to wait for a chance but once he is in the team it will be hard to shift him
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Our u18s lost to Millwall yetserday 3-1 with Parrot scoring and another u18s drew 4-4, don't know who against, and apparently Pochettino scored a couple
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Our u18s lost to Millwall yetserday 3-1 with Parrot scoring and another u18s drew 4-4, don't know who against, and apparently Pochettino scored a couple

arsenal i think. would assume that was our 'a' team and the team that played millwall was a mix of u16s and leftover u18s.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
6,516
CCV is 5th choice centre back. I wouldn't be against replacing Wimmer with another ball player at left-sided centre back, but if we keep things as they are we are hardly facing a crisis in that position.

Hes not fifth choice. I wish he was but hes not. He wouldnt be starting v PSG if he was. I'd far rather play Davies (assuming Rose is fit) then Wimmer but can see Poch again selecting CCV, particularly in the early rounds of the cups next season, to the point where there won't be any later rounds.

We need to buy a right sider, because Toby and Dier won't be able to play every game- and/or the latter will also be required in midfield if anything happens to Big Vic.
 
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Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
Been reviewing the 2nd PSG goal from last night. First of all Onomah gets in Nkoudou's way. I'm not sure why Onomah is even over there. Nkoudou takes in the ball tries to turn and run with it and Onomah is literally a yard away. The PSG player ploughs in and Onomah backs off, presumably to be a simple option for Nkoudou, although given Nkoudou is now facing his own goal its not an easy pass. So first mystery is solved: Why wasn't Onomah over on the other flank supporting KWP? Because he was over the other side of the pitch. Maybe this was what they were instructed to do, overload PSG's right side, who knows but it backfired because KWP is holding down the entire right hand side of the pitch. The nearest player to KWP is Dembele who is on the far side of the D from KWPs perspective.

KWP is watching this transpire from some 40 yards out. From the moment he sees Nkoudou's momentum come to a grinding halt to the point that he, KWP, reacts and starts jogging back is 3 seconds. Now that doesn't sound a lot but watching it in real time its frustrating. He must see the goalscorer standing completely free. He doesn't break into a sprint until the pass is practically being played to the scorer. By then its too late. As for the rest of the defence...they've been pulled right over to that right side. Its suicide in the circumstances because KWP hasn't been ordered back and no one has noticed that there is a PSG player in acres.

We'll put it down to pre-season rustiness but it was mental, not physical sloppiness. Poor on so many levels.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
Hes not fifth choice. I wish he was but hes not. He wouldnt be starting v PSG if he was. I'd far rather play Davies (assuming Rose is fit) then Wimmer but can see Poch again selecting CCV, particularly in the early rounds of the cups next season, to the point where there won't be any later rounds.

We need to buy a right sider, because Toby and Dier won't be able to play every game- and/or the latter will also be required in midfield if anything happens to Big Vic.

Of course he is 5th choice currently. He is behind Toby, Jan, Dier, and Wimmer. Pre-season is rarely a great indicator, with teams using 22 players and two different line-ups each half and giving everyone a game.

Dier doesn't even necessarily have to play in midfield, especially if we're short at centre backs as we've a number of midfield possible combinations.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
This Edwards situation feels like it's being over complicated. No one knows him but a lot of judgement are being made on his character. To me it seems like a very simple situation which has been repeated a lot and I mentioned it a while ago.

He had an unfortunate first year and is now in final year. He wants to play (nothing wrong with that) we want him to sign (understandable). We've been here before. We know the ball is in 'his court', it always has been. He decides if he wants to sign. He either signs away 2/3years of his career for no guarantee of game time, or we don't play him until he leaves. We won't change our stance. It's his choice, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to sign. So he will not play.

Now until he does sign (I hope he does) where people are getting he isn't willing to work hard or has an attitude from I don't know, as even if he did have a good attitude, he still wouldn't be playing. The mere fact he has started tracking back and running around more shows he is willing to work hard.

If by some chance he does sign and shows faith he'll get a chance. Then we can start questioning and speculating why he might not be getting a chance. But i suspect all the excuses are already written out for that situation. As far as I'm concerned if he has this big attitude problem or isn't willing to work, we woulnd't be offering him a contract in the first place.. We know Poch doesn't like that stuff, and values hard-work over talent, so he can't be bothered by Edwards' 'attitude problem' that much otherwise he wouldn't go through the bother.

I can't remember if I have written on here before but I don't see him ever playing for us.The person I spoke to btw, reckons he's off this summer and he only signed a year contract. I'm pretty sure he signed 2 myself so not sure on that,but wouldn't surprise me.

Its a massive shame but if anyone saw Foden play the other night, who I have mentioned a lot, you can imagine what Edwards might be able to do for us.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Been reviewing the 2nd PSG goal from last night. First of all Onomah gets in Nkoudou's way. I'm not sure why Onomah is even over there. Nkoudou takes in the ball tries to turn and run with it and Onomah is literally a yard away. The PSG player ploughs in and Onomah backs off, presumably to be a simple option for Nkoudou, although given Nkoudou is now facing his own goal its not an easy pass. So first mystery is solved: Why wasn't Onomah over on the other flank supporting KWP? Because he was over the other side of the pitch. Maybe this was what they were instructed to do, overload PSG's right side, who knows but it backfired because KWP is holding down the entire right hand side of the pitch. The nearest player to KWP is Dembele who is on the far side of the D from KWPs perspective.

KWP is watching this transpire from some 40 yards out. From the moment he sees Nkoudou's momentum come to a grinding halt to the point that he, KWP, reacts and starts jogging back is 3 seconds. Now that doesn't sound a lot but watching it in real time its frustrating. He must see the goalscorer standing completely free. He doesn't break into a sprint until the pass is practically being played to the scorer. By then its too late. As for the rest of the defence...they've been pulled right over to that right side. Its suicide in the circumstances because KWP hasn't been ordered back and no one has noticed that there is a PSG player in acres.

We'll put it down to pre-season rustiness but it was mental, not physical sloppiness. Poor on so many levels.

This is being really over analysed no? KWP#s first game for us at RB. 2nd or 3rd ever appearance. He made an error, no completely his fault. Walker made many mistakes over his 9 years. Davies was crucified against Liverpool and Trippier has made many defensive errors. It happens as an experienced pro, why would it be any different for KWP. I saw someone tweet this was evidence he isn't ready and we need to buy another back up. Now while I disagree, I understand why some may want another RB (though they won't be as good as Walker/Trippeir anyway) but to see a borderline mistake in his first game, a preseason no less, as confirmation he isn't ready at all this season is ridiculous
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
This Edwards situation feels like it's being over complicated. No one knows him but a lot of judgement are being made on his character. To me it seems like a very simple situation which has been repeated a lot and I mentioned it a while ago.

He had an unfortunate first year and is now in final year. He wants to play (nothing wrong with that) we want him to sign (understandable). We've been here before. We know the ball is in 'his court', it always has been. He decides if he wants to sign. He either signs away 2/3years of his career for no guarantee of game time, or we don't play him until he leaves. We won't change our stance. It's his choice, but I can understand why he wouldn't want to sign. So he will not play.

Now until he does sign (I hope he does) where people are getting he isn't willing to work hard or has an attitude from I don't know, as even if he did have a good attitude, he still wouldn't be playing. The mere fact he has started tracking back and running around more shows he is willing to work hard.

If by some chance he does sign and shows faith he'll get a chance. Then we can start questioning and speculating why he might not be getting a chance. But i suspect all the excuses are already written out for that situation. As far as I'm concerned if he has this big attitude problem or isn't willing to work, we woulnd't be offering him a contract in the first place.. We know Poch doesn't like that stuff, and values hard-work over talent, so he can't be bothered by Edwards' 'attitude problem' that much otherwise he wouldn't go through the bother.

I can't remember if I have written on here before but I don't see him ever playing for us.The person I spoke to btw, reckons he's off this summer and he only signed a year contract. I'm pretty sure he signed 2 myself so not sure on that,but wouldn't surprise me.

Its a massive shame but if anyone saw Foden play the other night, who I have mentioned a lot, you can imagine what Edwards might be able to do for us.

i think his contract was a 1+1, that's why on the premier league retained list it says extended next to his name so that's probably where your mate is getting the one year bit from.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,023
Been reviewing the 2nd PSG goal from last night. First of all Onomah gets in Nkoudou's way. I'm not sure why Onomah is even over there. Nkoudou takes in the ball tries to turn and run with it and Onomah is literally a yard away. The PSG player ploughs in and Onomah backs off, presumably to be a simple option for Nkoudou, although given Nkoudou is now facing his own goal its not an easy pass. So first mystery is solved: Why wasn't Onomah over on the other flank supporting KWP? Because he was over the other side of the pitch. Maybe this was what they were instructed to do, overload PSG's right side, who knows but it backfired because KWP is holding down the entire right hand side of the pitch. The nearest player to KWP is Dembele who is on the far side of the D from KWPs perspective.

KWP is watching this transpire from some 40 yards out. From the moment he sees Nkoudou's momentum come to a grinding halt to the point that he, KWP, reacts and starts jogging back is 3 seconds. Now that doesn't sound a lot but watching it in real time its frustrating. He must see the goalscorer standing completely free. He doesn't break into a sprint until the pass is practically being played to the scorer. By then its too late. As for the rest of the defence...they've been pulled right over to that right side. Its suicide in the circumstances because KWP hasn't been ordered back and no one has noticed that there is a PSG player in acres.

We'll put it down to pre-season rustiness but it was mental, not physical sloppiness. Poor on so many levels.
The screen shot below is from the moment KWP changes from a jog to sprint, as you can see, we have a player challenging the PSG player with the ball and wins the ball, the loose ball will either go to our player, to which KWP is going to be the outlet, so can't be too far back, or it will go to the PSG player closest to the ref, in which case KWP needs to close down the PSG player on the edge of the center circle. The biggest issue here is CCV, as not only has he left a man unmarked but he is playing 2 players onside.

upload_2017-7-24_9-20-58.png



This screenshot is from when the PSG beats his man and as you can see CCV is now playing 3 players onside, if he is where he should be, the PSG player with the ball has to go back, in which case, KWP needs to be closer to the center circle, due to Onomah being out of position. CCV screws up our entire high line/press.

upload_2017-7-24_9-31-31.png


Even if KWP started sprinting earlier, he is always going to be behind Pastore and the wrong side to be effective.

upload_2017-7-24_9-39-39.png

upload_2017-7-24_9-41-40.png
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
11,845
34,023
This is being really over analysed no? KWP#s first game for us at RB. 2nd or 3rd ever appearance. He made an error, no completely his fault. Walker made many mistakes over his 9 years. Davies was crucified against Liverpool and Trippier has made many defensive errors. It happens as an experienced pro, why would it be any different for KWP. I saw someone tweet this was evidence he isn't ready and we need to buy another back up. Now while I disagree, I understand why some may want another RB (though they won't be as good as Walker/Trippeir anyway) but to see a borderline mistake in his first game, a preseason no less, as confirmation he isn't ready at all this season is ridiculous
I don't even think KWP made and error and I remember Walker scoring an Own goal vs Man Utd the first game of the season before last and people said he was out of position but a few of us disagreed and defended him (even @Bus-Conductor did too). Walker just got back in time to tackle Rooney into his own net, but even he had a couple of seconds more to get back than KWP did and also took Rooney hesitating to even be able to reach the ball in time and he is quicker than KWP.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
KWP's role in the 2nd goal is being examined way too forensically. He's 20. He perhaps made a mistake and he will make more.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I don't even think KWP made and error and I remember Walker scoring an Own goal vs Man Utd the first game of the season before last and people said he was out of position but a few of us disagreed and defended him (even @Bus-Conductor did too). Walker just got back in time to tackle Rooney into his own net, but even he had a couple of seconds more to get back than KWP did and also took Rooney hesitating to even be able to reach the ball in time and he is quicker than KWP.

I'm not going to lie I've only seen it once (live), and I don't remember thinking he was massively at fault. I just put it down to the difficulty of being a FB. Like you say he isn't at fault and looking at the stills mad how badly position CCV is, hopefully he'll learn from that.

I remember the Walker OG and even if he was out of position Davies was roasted by Mane and managed to come through so its not all bad.
 

cliff jones

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
4,059
6,516
Of course he is 5th choice currently. He is behind Toby, Jan, Dier, and Wimmer. Pre-season is rarely a great indicator, with teams using 22 players and two different line-ups each half and giving everyone a game.

Dier doesn't even necessarily have to play in midfield, especially if we're short at centre backs as we've a number of midfield possible combinations.

too simple. We have a first choice three. Wimmer has got the nod as first reserve, but might not even stay. CCV is next in line, as proven by Poch continuing to give him exposure to challenges like the last friendly.

If he was a goalie and had four in front of him then I could accept what you're saying. He wouldn't feature.

But he's not. And he will. And, at this rate, he's a disaster waiting to happen.

And I can see Dier having also to fill in at RB, as well as having to play CM if Wanyama is not around (we need one or the other in there).

This weakness, and Janssen, will be our undoing. So close to having a truly competitive squad, but with no sign of anyone doing anything about it- in fact most, like you, remain in de nile.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Great to see TOB come on yesterday. Also watched Kirby for Palace and I must say it was incredibly weird seeing both of them on TV playing with first teamers, when we've essentially been watching them since they were 12/13, and it does not feel long ago at all.

Literally watched them grow up into footballers

I was lurking a lot more at this time, and I don't think I learned their names until the following year but you could tell they were both class.

Link to when it was first posted is here.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...18-leagues-and-other-youth-news.88939/page-63

Time goes fast

 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
too simple. We have a first choice three. Wimmer has got the nod as first reserve, but might not even stay. CCV is next in line, as proven by Poch continuing to give him exposure to challenges like the last friendly.

If he was a goalie and had four in front of him then I could accept what you're saying. He wouldn't feature.

But he's not. And he will. And, at this rate, he's a disaster waiting to happen.

And I can see Dier having also to fill in at RB, as well as having to play CM if Wanyama is not around (we need one or the other in there).

This weakness, and Janssen, will be our undoing. So close to having a truly competitive squad, but with no sign of anyone doing anything about it- in fact most, like you, remain in de nile.

Ok so basically you wanted to be able to say 'Levy is a ****, spend some fucking money', weren't there enough other threads for that?
 
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