The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[Blake Griffin]

I completely understand that the management don't give two hoots about the score, I've made that point myself many a time but as a fan it doesn't 'alf wind me up when we lose.

When we restructured the academy we chose to prioritise individuality, invention, technique and skills pretty much exclusively. I do wonder sometimes whether Poch would prefer Leicester's academy where if they can fit through the training ground door frame then they're not big enough and get released or If they don't eat raw liver straight out of the carcass for lunch then their attitude isn't right and they get released.

to be fair i can imagine the coaching staff are livid at us failing to see out a 4-2 lead late on, especially when we did exactly the same thing in our last game against chelsea.

 

[Blake Griffin]

in better news, it looks like onomah's starting at cm for villa today.

 

[EQP]

in better news, it looks like onomah's starting at cm for villa today.

This must be a mistake!

 

[coys200]

Amazing how many U18 games we seem to score 3 or 4 and not win. And always seem to be ahead and get pegged back.

 

[Spurrific]

Our youth must be littered with shit defenders. It is embarrassing (for them, not me) how many times they’ve cocked up and thrown away leads this year.

 

[Blake Griffin]

This must be a mistake!

haha, i think it actually might be. have seen someone say it's bjarnason and hourihane playing cm

 

[Hengy1]

haha, i think it actually might be. have seen someone say it's bjarnason and hourihane playing cm

Sky have him as a RM

 

[IGSpur]

Veljkovic v Stambouli I kind of agree with but, as we only signed the latter a couple of months after Poch joined and since we completely changed the scouting team 4 months after that, I do wonder if Poch had much of an input into that particular signing.

Don't know but he played Veljkovic in preseason and saw that he was more than a good enough defender to try out, and he would have seen his ability. He could have still kept him if he identified his ability and played him over the games Stambouli played, especially as he apparently he only judges on ability and doesn't take into account whether they were a signing or not. Stambouli would have been moved on regardless and we could have started to integrate Milos and made money off him.

Either way the very following season, Veljkovic won the u20 World Cup, was Serbia's best defender as one of their youngest player and then we chose to buy Wimmer, and Veljkvoic didn't get to train with the first team. If Poch suggested he would use him that season instead of Wimmer, we could have made money, again, but he rightly saw he wouldn't get a chance and we missed out making lots of money, and instead ended up spending money. I'm sure some will point to the fact we made a profit on Wimmer, but we would have made a bigger profit on Milos, if he was deemed not good enough, and used less money on wages. Milos could have ended up covering DM and CM like Dier instead of one or both of the signings mentioned.

Oduwa didn't have the mentality to play with the first team and I believe his loan spells and move have shown that. N'jie was a poor signing but not one that affected our youngsters IMO.

We know this now, but it came about after his loan spell to Rangers in the 15/16 season. He did well in that preseason before being sent out on loan. We instead brought N'Jie with the fee and wages involved. We know N'Jie wasn't good enough for us, but we don't know what would have happened if Oduwa got his chance. At worse he would probably have been sold on for the same amount of money we bought N'jie for and of course we would have saved a bit more money on wages.

GKN and Edwards are nothing a like IMO, GKN, I believe was brought in to be a Pacey dribbler that can run at defences to disrupt them, however it has turned out that he gets past players by knocking the ball past the defender rather than actual dribbling which is useless 90% of the time with how we play and how our opponents set up against us.

Interestingly Edwards' strength is dribbling which is what we wanted GKN to do. His other strength is decision making and passing. What is the point in pace if there is no decision making, which GKN doesn't show. Also it suggests the scouting wasn't very good as I don't believe he would change his dribbling style just because he has come to the PL. Also it's not like he was tearing up Ligue 1 and he wasn't even good enough for France youth matches, so what on earth did we see. I reckon the time we have wasted on him could have gone to Edwards. Either way, had Oduwa been given a chance the previous season, he may have done a decent enough job for us not to need N'Koudou anyway.

Redknapp wasn't that good at bringing youngsters through as he just gave chances to avoid 1st teamers getting injured and would throw a load in the EL. Livermore, Townsend, Kane, Fredericks, Carroll were all thrown in as after thoughts. And by chance they all showed they were good enough to play. 5 of these players have gone on to show they are good enough for the PL and one has shown he is good enough for the Championship. That gung-ho approach and loans earned us a lot of money. Sherwood also threw in Bentaleb who showed he was good enough for top level football. This would not have happened under AVB and Poch and people would be claiming that none of them could play at that standard. Not one player has shown they can't handle the Premier League, doesn't that suggest that there are so many more who can play Premier League or did we just stop producing then? Surely it isn't hard to give these guys half an hour in league cup or 15 mins at the end of matches or play in dead rubbers. Before Poch turned up no one used to complain about them being pointless minutes under 'no pressure'. Everyone would want us to get a lead and bring players on. In fact Kane and the above players came through under those pointless games and went on to turn around Poch's first season and save him, and now apparently they're no good, despite his method not showing much.

Do you not think our recent neglect of the academy is wrong, I'm jsut suggesting they should have been used more. If you think Poch is right not to use them I assume you don't think they are good enough. Do you believe that we are producing worse players now? I have asked a couple of times and no one has responded, do you believe the academy is not doing it's job? Are we wasting money? All seems to be going backwards

Also, and this isn't aimed at you, while I'm here, I don't understand why fans believe we overrate our academy when its fans overrating players from abroad. I keep saying how much better English academies are, and whenever one gets some sort of chance they always do well. I'm not going to ask who the World Class players we've had in the last 3 years are. But in the last 2/3 years what players have we had that most would consider to be in the top 3/5 best in their respective positions. Kane, Rose, Walker, Toby, Lloris? 2 from the academy, 1 from another English academy and the other 2 from the 100s of random purchases we believe are THE player to make us better. People need to start paying attention to percentages and stop overrating anyone that doesn't play for us or plays in a league abroad.

Liverpool have played Arnold less then we have played Winks and the only other youth player under 24 to play for them was Woodburn who has played less than KWP. Also Arnold is part of the worded defence in the top 10 IMO, so not the best example.

Liverpool are doing as badly as us then, with weaker academy. They have 2 really promising youth players come through, who are 2 years younger than our comparable players and are getting a similar amount of minutes and are still ahead of us. We have a load more and better players than they're academy so, I believe they are doing better than us.

Arsenal failed to achieve top 4 last season and are currently 6th, so also not the best example.

I was responding to the argument about teams around us don't also bring players through. Yet Arsenal who also have a weaker academy are giving chances to more players. Both Arsenal and Liverpool have good year groups at the moment so I hope they continue to give opportunities to these kids at the moment but trying to fill gaps in the squad with academy players then selling them on is what we should be doing

Are you implying that the Arsenal's poor form or Liverpool's poor defence is down to the academy player or a reason they shouldn't get a chance? They both have more signings than they do academy playesr maybe they should look that hem first

I think my biggest gripe with Poch is that, whilst I agree that work rate is important, too much emphasis is put on it over ability, which is why we have seen Sissoko play over Onomah, Pritchard moved on and Edwards struggle to get game time (though I believe strength has also been a factor here).

Agree, hence why Amos, Lesniak and Sterling get on the bench. None of those players are going to go on and improve us or haven't played that well. It seems you only get a chance in England if you're a work horse or have great physical attributes. Occasionally you'll get players with those attributes and some talent too, but that's why there are no no.10s or creatives or no top quality CMs as they're too risky.

I love that Winks has come through and always believed he had PL level ability but he isn't going to on to be Modric. I reckon at best he will become a Nicky Butt type of player for us. Where he maintains a level that will keep him a t the club for a long time and be important for us in different matches and have experience but he will not become elite level. Could be wrong, but that will be great for us. But the point is because we are so risk averse we miss out on the players that could be huge in favour of those with work rate.

 

[IGSpur]

Is it just me or have our youth teams been shite this year, YCL aside?

The u23's have been absolutely useless. Makes you wonder what's the benefit of keeping these players instead of getting them good loans. That said, CCV and Onomah haven't had the most successful of times.

No the u18s have been very good and impressive whenever I've seen them. There is a lot of talent, there but as Hengy said they only prioritse development. I don't know how much you pay attention to this thread but the coaches set them up to invite pressure on ourselves and then make them play tika taka around the back under pressure which results in half of the goals conceded. It will look bad from the outside but it's what the coaches ask of them. And it results in us providing quality players.

The u23s though look really bad, as the best don't play for them. They are training with Poch or now on loan. Then the next best are the 19 year olds who aren't playing as they give the older guys games who won't be good enough. Other clubs take it a lot more seriously playing their best players, plus the occasional first teamer and then promote their est youngsters.

Academy isn’t about winning it’s about developing. We can’t just shove everyone on loan or release them if not good enough as we need to fill teams.

As long as we carry on producing 2 or 3 per age group able to compete then we are doing fine imo

What do you mean by compete? Surely the aim is to produce players good enough for the first team?

 

[IGSpur]

Our youth must be littered with shit defenders. It is embarrassing (for them, not me) how many times they’ve cocked up and thrown away leads this year.

It will often be due to us playing tika take under severe pressure as advised by the coaches which result in half of the goals conceded. Someone will either get dispossessed near the box, misplace a pass when they're the last man or a few times slip on the ball.

The other thing that makes us look bad is one player having a shocker can really affect things. Example today Dinzeyi made 2 big mistakes that lead to goals and was taken off at half time.

Last game I went to Statham struggled and was constantly making mistakes, then the whole teams morale gets affected if the mistakes are costly. We actually have a load of good defenders.

 

[IGSpur]

Our u16s won 4-0 I think I saw edson post somewhere. Asante scored a hattrick. Apparently they've already handed out contracts to next years intake.

 

[Anuth]

Our match vs Lok Stendal (starts around 12.27 minute.)

 

[Hengy1]

No the u18s have been very good and impressive whenever I've seen them. There is a lot of talent, there but as Hengy said they only prioritse development. I don't know how much you pay attention to this thread but the coaches set them up to invite pressure on ourselves and then make them play tika taka around the back under pressure which results in half of the goals conceded. It will look bad from the outside but it's what the coaches ask of them. And it results in us providing quality players.

The u23s though look really bad, as the best don't play for them. They are training with Poch or now on loan. Then the next best are the 19 year olds who aren't playing as they give the older guys games who won't be good enough. Other clubs take it a lot more seriously playing their best players, plus the occasional first teamer and then promote their est youngsters.



What do you mean by compete? Surely the aim is to produce players good enough for the first team?

Yes 2 or 3 able to compete for the first team.

 

[Waxman]

I agree with @IGSpur from seeing the u18 match today.

We played lovely football and our players were technically so much better than theirs

They had three 6'+ players who were dreadful at football, honestly.


From our lot, I was impressed with almost all of them:


De Bie - decent, made some good saves and some of his distribution was great. He did play some shockers though, but I presume those will reduce as he gets older


Hinds (rb), very good player. Athletic, adventurous, strong

Dinzeyi and lyons-foster (centre backs), I thought they both played pretty well overall. Calm in possession and handled the oppos physicality well. The pen was correctly given but dinz was just done by good footwork imo

Reynolds (lb) - made some lovely runs, setting up the first.

Bowden and Patterson played through the middle, controlled the game really nicely. They were much smaller than the oppo and danced rings around them many times (getting wiped out a few times too). Patterson's goal was a lovely hit

Markanday- behind the striker. Really nice feet and committed their players a lot. Not hugely dissimilar to Edwards

Richards and Clarke played on the wings and both made lots of runs, setting up plenty of opportunities. Richards run for his goal was very good

Griffiths- striker, didn't get on the scoresheet, but really impressed me. We've had some pretty crappy youth strikers in the last couple of seasons (loft, coulibaly etc). Griffiths held the ball well, passed well, harried well and deserved a goal.

 

[IGSpur]

Yes 2 or 3 able to compete for the first team.

Agree, but doesn't seem like we're doing that at the moment

 

[IGSpur]

De Bie - decent, made some good saves and some of his distribution was great. He did play some shockers though, but I presume those will reduce as he gets older

Re: De Bie I didn't mention it but yes today 2 of his passes went straight to their AMs. I was talking to a grandad of one of their players and told him about hwo we play. On 2 occasions today I had to say 'I told you so' as he shouted 'make them pay'. Those were both De Bie. Their keeper pulled off 2 stunning saves btw.

Dinzeyi and lyons-foster (centre backs), I thought they both played pretty well overall. Calm in possession and handled the oppos physicality well. The pen was correctly given but dinz was just done by good footwork imo

You mad me think. I was harsh on Dinzeyi he had a generally good game and I did mention he started the move for our first goal, but his tackle for the pen was so rash, and he got twist up for the 2nd

Markanday- behind the striker. Really nice feet and committed their players a lot. Not hugely dissimilar to Edwards

To add about Markanday there was so much good about him. I at first thought you're comment was strange but you're right there are some similarities. He doesn't quite have the close control of Edwards but he makes a lot of good touches to keep the ball away from players, His turning on the ball is very sharp to avoid players, he picks out sensible and good passes. He is a great team player. There's a lot to like. He's seems like a good team player and a well-liked member of the squad and people trust him by giving him the ball a lot. He is also very calm on the ball and his finish was very composed. Another person he reminds me of IN STYLE is Silva (I think) Lastly, he made some great tackles today. I'm not talking throwing himself in, but sticking a foot in and just nicking the ball, he times it well. He also made on goal saving challenge. Leicester were on the counter, they had 2/3 big guys relatively speaking, running at him at speed, he was on the edge of the area alone, and he seems very small. I thought they were going to go right through him the guy tried to take the ball past him and pass the the man arriving on the right of the box and he stuck a solid leg out and completely halted the attack and carried on with the ball. I don't want to talk him up too much, (he says after the paragraph) but after his good start to season and today's game I'm definitely watching him. I liked him in the bits I saw of him at u16s an below and he is arguably doing even better than that. It doesn't feel like he has that star quality at the moment, he seems very humble and quiet almost as if he doesn't believe he should be there. That may just be him, but I feel if he starts to develop a bit or arrogance he could be a very good player.

Also a mention to Clarke who I think caused a lot of problems. very tricky feet and slick, I feel he could have had a coupe of penalties. I think he went to the by line too much and think he should mix it up a bit more but good game.

Also re the family I mentioned the Dad kept saying 'we need to get our striker and CB on', and I think it says a lot about our academy, that we don't have a best team. I feel we could just choose an 11 and it will be full of quality. I also heard the Dad say after they kept fouling us, and the ref giving it, that it's turning into a poof's game. And people wonder why some footballers may not want to come out

 

[Westmorland]

Tomorrow night on bt sport 6.30pm. No Hunger in Paradise...documentary on youth football in this country. Following on from Michael Calvin’s great book of the same name. Will be worth watching.
Frank Lampard on bt football tonight discussing this. Like him or not he talked a lot of sense. Basically blaming the parents for chasing the money with very young boys. Not the first time he has said this but I tend to agree with him. Clubs should not get these kids till they are 12 yrs old.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Tomorrow night on bt sport 6.30pm. No Hunger in Paradise...documentary on youth football in this country. Following on from Michael Calvin’s great book of the same name. Will be worth watching.
Frank Lampard on bt football tonight discussing this. Like him or not he talked a lot of sense. Basically blaming the parents for chasing the money with very young boys. Not the first time he has said this but I tend to agree with him. Clubs should not get these kids till they are 12 yrs old.

https://forensiconions.wordpress.com

 

[WindyCOYS]

I gather there will be youngsters involved tomorrow.

 

[Univarn]

I gather there will be youngsters involved tomorrow.

Seeing as there is no tv coverage and live Spurs TV exists only in my dreams I will use the power of my imagination to envision them doing well and all the players keeping them out of the first team being rubbish.