The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

IGSpur

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on the plus side though at least it seems like he now recognises that they need to be playing football rather than just being full-time trainers until their early-mid twenties.
Good point. At least if they go on loan, he will be more inclined to play them if they do well or we will start getting good fees for them
 

Anuth

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saw this earlier which could be nothing but thought i'd put it here anyway:

Harvey Specter‏@DontTarkk Jan 17
Strange news Hinds and Griffiths are both leaving this summer, their attitudes must be absolute trash

Harvey Specter‏@DontTarkk 40m
Replying to @lilywhite_rose
Griffiths and Hinds are leaving, save this interview


don't know who this guy is and hopefully he's wrong(it's a pretty random/specific thing to just come out with though?) but i'd also heard from someone reliable in the summer that reo wasn't happy and that he wanted out, i didn't really think much of it at the time but now i'm wondering if there really is something in it. not heard anything about hinds though.

I don't think we keep playing them, if they are leaving
 

SpursD22

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I don’t agree with Poch. Yes I get that we are a much better side now with good players in every position and wants to win titles but that shouldn’t stop Poch from giving academy players the chance. In a game that meant nothing (Apoel) KWP was the only one to start and Sterling only played like 2 minutes, against Wimbledon he had no academy players on the bench. We were 3-0 up, he could’ve played someone. And yes I’ve heard the argument that Poch doesn’t play a academy player just for the sake of it but surely there’s someone who he rates (Skipp, Edwards etc?) that he could’ve played. And the likes of Georgiou and Amos have been on the bench and played but I don’t think they will make it with us. It’s unfair to not play someone because he’s not physically strong, but play someone who isn’t better than that player just because he’s more physical.
And look at KWP, he’s been brilliant every time he’s played, he’s a good kid who apparently is one of the best in trainings but he get minimal play time but Trippier who is if we are being honest a decent player at best (average imo) plays ahead of him. He loaned out Onomah to a team that doesn’t even play football. He never even gave Onomah the chance on his preferred position, not even in training games, but Sissoko who keeps playing average gets minutes instead of him. We spend so much money on the training ground and on the academy, and yes I know that we make money from selling the players but surely the plan was to producing players to the first team, and Winks is the only player I can give 100% credit too.
And I find this part funny, Poch says that we don’t need fast wingers because our style of football is playing football not counter attack. He said that he wants/likes player that can dribble. And we had one in Marcud Edwards but he never got the chance, he didn’t even make the bench. Anyways enough of me ranting to something I already said and knew. Good night
 

Anuth

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I don’t agree with Poch. Yes I get that we are a much better side now with good players in every position and wants to win titles but that shouldn’t stop Poch from giving academy players the chance. In a game that meant nothing (Apoel) KWP was the only one to start and Sterling only played like 2 minutes, against Wimbledon he had no academy players on the bench. We were 3-0 up, he could’ve played someone. And yes I’ve heard the argument that Poch doesn’t play a academy player just for the sake of it but surely there’s someone who he rates (Skipp, Edwards etc?) that he could’ve played. And the likes of Georgiou and Amos have been on the bench and played but I don’t think they will make it with us. It’s unfair to not play someone because he’s not physically strong, but play someone who isn’t better than that player just because he’s more physical.
And look at KWP, he’s been brilliant every time he’s played, he’s a good kid who apparently is one of the best in trainings but he get minimal play time but Trippier who is if we are being honest a decent player at best (average imo) plays ahead of him. He loaned out Onomah to a team that doesn’t even play football. He never even gave Onomah the chance on his preferred position, not even in training games, but Sissoko who keeps playing average gets minutes instead of him. We spend so much money on the training ground and on the academy, and yes I know that we make money from selling the players but surely the plan was to producing players to the first team, and Winks is the only player I can give 100% credit too.
And I find this part funny, Poch says that we don’t need fast wingers because our style of football is playing football not counter attack. He said that he wants/likes player that can dribble. And we had one in Marcud Edwards but he never got the chance, he didn’t even make the bench. Anyways enough of me ranting to something I already said and knew. Good night

It was worse than that KWP didn't even start that game. He played 20 minutes and it's because Rose was injured
 
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Just watching the Dortmund game. Emphasises that he made the right decision to leave England. What we'd be hearing on MC Community or from punters on here is Guadiola or Poch say he's not ready to play first team football and "they know best" they see them every day, but clearly he is, as are/have been a couple of ours, when the truth is really, those managers are not ready to give them first team football. Now they may feel they have justification - that's a whole other debate - but I think it's time we stopped just accepting the notion that because Poch (or even Guardiola) refuse to play kids, that that automatically means "they aren't ready" to be played.
 

ljinko888

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Just watching the Dortmund game. Emphasises that he made the right decision to leave England. What we'd be hearing on MC Community or from punters on here is Guadiola or Poch say he's not ready to play first team football and "they know best" they see them every day, but clearly he is, as are/have been a couple of ours, when the truth is really, those managers are not ready to give them first team football. Now they may feel they have justification - that's a whole other debate - but I think it's time we stopped just accepting the notion that because Poch (or even Guardiola) refuse to play kids, that that automatically means "they aren't ready" to be played.
With City so far ahead they have room for error to play a kid or two now. A kid making a mistake isn't going to collapse their likely title win - £50m Stones and £30m Ederson made mistakes at the weekend. Mistakes happen but it's about being given the chance to learn from them.

Therefore I am surprised they are looking at Jonny Evans. He's 29, got no significant improvement in him, no resale value, will be on a hefty wage to warm the bench for a year or two and he played for their rival. What would he offer as a 4th choice or 5th when Kompany is fit that a kid can't?
 

mill

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With us being linked to Andre green for £10m and sessegnon being talked about at £50m chucking youth players on for 30 minutes in a game we’ve already could actually reap quite good financial benefits
 

Spurzinho

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Hinds leaving wouldn't be half as disappointing as Griffiths leaving, although Hinds is very decent as well. I've heard no hint of this. It does seem a tad strange that we'd be giving Griffiths so many minutes if he had told us he wasn't staying. We don't tend to reward disloyalty.

From their personal point of view I can understand why any of our kids might think they'd be better off playing first team football now for a League One or Two club but there are costs. The coaching is sub standard, the football is far less attractive, progressive and technical, the pitches aren't as good, the facilities aren't much cop and the money certainly isn't anything to write home about.

Both will also have to be careful where they choose to go. We're not going to allow them to just swan off to Liverpool or Everton or West Ham. We'd insist on compo. Maybe less so if they end up at Southend or Barnet but do you really want to play for Southend or Barnet?
 

Hengy1

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Disagree with poch here tbh. It’s unrealistic for a player to come out of the academy and hit a 8/10. Personally wouldn’t even say Winks is that atm yet poch plays him.

At least they have the opportunity now to go out on loan early to get a taster of ‘men’s’ football.

Im a big backer of Poch but that’s disappointing.
 
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Disagree with poch here tbh. It’s unrealistic for a player to come out of the academy and hit a 8/10. Personally wouldn’t even say Winks is that atm yet poch plays him.

At least they have the opportunity now to go out on loan early to get a taster of ‘men’s’ football.

Im a big backer of Poch but that’s disappointing.
What’s even more wrong is applying those standards to youth players so rigorously but not to his first team purchases quite so ruthlessly.

Even in his book he talks about several first team players he has to lecture about working harder, being distracted by their entourages, losing “fuckuss”, not grasping the philosophy properly etc

"You need to show quality, mental strength, physical condition and everything

KWP has shown all those things, has Sissoko?
 

IGSpur

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With City so far ahead they have room for error to play a kid or two now. A kid making a mistake isn't going to collapse their likely title win - £50m Stones and £30m Ederson made mistakes at the weekend. Mistakes happen but it's about being given the chance to learn from them.

Therefore I am surprised they are looking at Jonny Evans. He's 29, got no significant improvement in him, no resale value, will be on a hefty wage to warm the bench for a year or two and he played for their rival. What would he offer as a 4th choice or 5th when Kompany is fit that a kid can't?
Every club will have their own personal reasons, as to why they don't want to give a kid a chance. You see City however many points ahead and think they can. A City fan may ask why risk it, 12point gaps have closed before or we've got to give players we've bought games

A City fan may watch us in a dead rubber, and ask why we can't play an academy player, and we tell them it's not meaningful minutes or because all squad players need to get fit. Each club will have their own excuse to keep academy players on the bench.

We can't get high and mighty, when the reason ours can't get a place is now because we're too good and challenging for the title, but expect City to when they are actually going to win the league. I don't really see what is wrong with that argument as I know many people disliked my post, but it makes sense to me
 

IGSpur

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Hinds leaving wouldn't be half as disappointing as Griffiths leaving, although Hinds is very decent as well. I've heard no hint of this. It does seem a tad strange that we'd be giving Griffiths so many minutes if he had told us he wasn't staying. We don't tend to reward disloyalty.
As you say, and someone above it is weird that we'd keep playing him so maybe more is being made of it.

From their personal point of view I can understand why any of our kids might think they'd be better off playing first team football now for a League One or Two club but there are costs. The coaching is sub standard, the football is far less attractive, progressive and technical, the pitches aren't as good, the facilities aren't much cop and the money certainly isn't anything to write home about.

Both will also have to be careful where they choose to go. We're not going to allow them to just swan off to Liverpool or Everton or West Ham. We'd insist on compo. Maybe less so if they end up at Southend or Barnet but do you really want to play for Southend or Barnet?
I'd have thought that they could run down their contracts and then wouldn't need compo right? Anyway I agree with a lot of what you say, but they choose the right club and it could work.

Charlton had Palmer, Colkett and Gomez in the same age group. he first 2 left to get the quality coaching and facilities at Chelsea, became quality players but have never seen the light of the first team. Gomez stayed and got lesser coaching but the chance when he turned 18. The things is it appears that no matter how talented you actually are, the most important thing is who is playing league football at 17/18. That seems to trump everything. I don't think it means you have the highest potential, but talented players in EFL, who get that chance at 17/18 end up developing a lot quicker rate and progressing their career, than players who were/are more talented than them but stuck at the big PL clubs.

It's weird that England scouts can go all over the country watching football they choose the best players at certain age groups no matter what clubs. The fact that had a player from Fleetwood at the WC and we won so many competitions show they are not bias or making right decisions. You get the top teams hoovering up any talent they find, unless parents stand firm like Gomez's, and coach them to such a high standard, that the international teams are filled with them and they can beat anyone. Yet when they turn 17/18/19 they are replaced or overlooked for any half decent talent that has managed to sneak into an EFL first team.

That is why if I was Hinds, I wouldn't worry about moving to a QPR or Charlton. He is a quality RB in my opinion and one we'd hold onto if we could. But you look at Oteh and players like Gomez, getting out at 17/18 having had all of that quality training may be the best move for his career. Even move abroad. He could well struggle, and not 'make it' but it's better to get out and do that at 17/18 when your still in the upward stage of development and clubs are committed to developing you, than hang around til your 20/21 knowing it's very very very unlikely you'll get a chance.
 

IGSpur

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Disagree with poch here tbh. It’s unrealistic for a player to come out of the academy and hit a 8/10. Personally wouldn’t even say Winks is that atm yet poch plays him.
I have said the same thing. They are probably 7 or 6/10s now, but we buy 7/10s anyway. Difference is after a year or so they will be 8/10s minimum. We might be buying Malcom which is cool. Never watched him other than youtube videos, but reading the comments from some who've seen him. It's he's talented player, but don't expect him to come in now and tear up the league, he's going to need time to settle. Poch said he can make him into the best in 3 years. He's a bit older than Onomah. Why can't we show that same thinking to the best academy players' we'd make so much money and have a lot more quality in the team eventually
 
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