The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[IGSpur]

Yes, Kane scored 3 league goals under Sherwood at the end of the 2013/14 season. However he looked nothing like the player that flourished under Poch. The one that bullies defenders with his strength.

Also he didn't start the 14/15 season on fire. He scored his first league goal in November after coming on as a sub against Villa. After that game, his fortunes, Poch's fortunes and the clubs changed completely.

Kane has of course continued to develop his game there is absolutely no doubt about that. But as I say, at the start of the 14/15 season he scored 7/8 goals in EL including a hattrick. IIRC it took the fans to start chanting his name before he got his first start in the PL. He then ended up scoring 20 PL goals. Like I say I don't know what impact Poch would have had on Kane up until that point. Poch admitted it was Kane that saved him in that first season at Villa and all of what Kane had displayed up until that point and would have been what he had learned pre-Poch and from the academy. Kane had of course continued to develop at the hands of Poch who is an excellent coach, but let's not rewrite what happened beforehand.

The original post was about this season so that's what I was replying to, there's no point making it about recent seasons because that's not what a was talking about. Also Bellerin came through Barca's academy unless you are going to praise us for bringing through dele and Foyth?

I wasn't defending our youth policy this season, just saying was that I don't think any team deserves any real credit for youth academy intergration this season except for Klopp with TAA. If you can refute any of the points then be my guest but don't just misquote what I said to fit in with your opinion.

Fair enough. Either way Bellerin joined Arsenal when he was 15/16. He is as much of a product of their academy as Rose, Bentaleb or Veljkovic are ours.

You also caveated Mourinho's use of McTominay who also started today in a big match against Chelsea. Yet Mourinho is constantly slagged off. Winger has also given quite a few chances and starts to AMN. You might not be defending our use of the academy this season, but I assume they means your are defending it's use over the last 4 years, as Winks has come through, but again that is no better than any other clubs. How can you criticise other clubs but not us. Youth integration is generally poor which I've been saying fit ages, and that goes for us too.

 

[Streetspur77]

out of interest, if jonathan de bie comes through and becomes spurs' #1 at some point, will he not count as an academy product? i'm just wondering where we draw the line here. i think j'neil bennett joined from qpr at 15, would he count? griffiths from orient at 14?

The dele comparison but was a bit over the top, he's obviously not in the same league but I'd say repution matters. IIRC Bellerin was still highly rated then and in Barca's academy, it's easy to give a player a chance when they've had that football education and you've just picked them up through a loophole at the end of the conveyor belt whereas De Bie and Grittiths haven't exactly been through La Masia and require a lot more work from us, it's not a clear line and is open to interpretation though I'll concede

 

[WindyCOYS]

out of interest, if jonathan de bie comes through and becomes spurs' #1 at some point, will he not count as an academy product? i'm just wondering where we draw the line here. i think j'neil bennett joined from qpr at 15, would he count? griffiths from orient at 14?

Pritchard...

 

[Hengy1]

For me personally I go with if you’ve played a senior game for another team prior to joining us then you can’t be a academy product.

That’s for me means the hard work would’ve been done by the previous club and we are getting a player ready for senior football.

 

[Streetspur77]

For me personally I go with if you’ve played a senior game for another team prior to joining us then you can’t be a academy product.

That’s for me means the hard work would’ve been done by the previous club and we are getting a player ready for senior football.

I agree with that general principle but also some common sense needs to be applied.

When we signed Tracey he had a senior appearence for Ebbsfleet but we still had a lot more to do then Arsenal did with Bellerin who's just come out of the best football education in the world but had no appearences.

 

[Hengy1]

I agree with that general principle but also some common sense needs to be applied.

When we signed Tracey he had a senior appearence for Ebbsfleet but we still had a lot more to do then Arsenal did with Bellerin who's just come out of the best football education in the world but had no appearences.

Nope no exceptions

 

[spurs9]

IIRC it took the fans to start chanting his name before he got his first start in the PL.

Poch doesn't strike me as the sort of coach who would be swayed by fans chanting.

 

[Spurzinho]

Kane has of course continued to develop his game there is absolutely no doubt about that. But as I say, at the start of the 14/15 season he scored 7/8 goals in EL including a hattrick. IIRC it took the fans to start chanting his name before he got his first start in the PL. He then ended up scoring 20 PL goals. Like I say I don't know what impact Poch would have had on Kane up until that point. Poch admitted it was Kane that saved him in that first season at Villa and all of what Kane had displayed up until that point and would have been what he had learned pre-Poch and from the academy. Kane had of course continued to develop at the hands of Poch who is an excellent coach, but let's not rewrite what happened beforehand.



Fair enough. Either way Bellerin joined Arsenal when he was 15/16. He is as much of a product of their academy as Rose, Bentaleb or Veljkovic are ours.

You also caveated Mourinho's use of McTominay who also started today in a big match against Chelsea. Yet Mourinho is constantly slagged off. Winger has also given quite a few chances and starts to AMN. You might not be defending our use of the academy this season, but I assume they means your are defending it's use over the last 4 years, as Winks has come through, but again that is no better than any other clubs. How can you criticise other clubs but not us. Youth integration is generally poor which I've been saying fit ages, and that goes for us too.

I'd be reluctant to use Bellerin or Iwobi as examples of youth getting their well deserved chance for the simple reason that both are pretty crap.

 

[Spurzinho]

On a more serious note remember the kid Finn Lawless we signed. Well he's gone to Watford

Name doesn't ring a bell, can you refresh my memory.

 

[IGSpur]

Name doesn't ring a bell, can you refresh my memory.

From this old post

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...outh-news-thread.110644/page-414#post-4565144

 

[Lemon]

Per Hinds and Griffiths: We've offered pro-terms to far worse players than those two so if its true, and its a big if, then there must be something more going on because they're certainly deserving of professional contracts on performances alone. if they've refused to sign pro contracts then that's a different matter and they won't as much be released as free to negotiate with other clubs (with compensation complicating a domestic move). IF they were going down the free agent route then I find it very difficult to believe that the club would just blithely carry on playing them for the U18s and U23s. Its just not our style. We've not done that before.

I'm inclined to believe that someone has got their wires crossed and that both will be here next season.

Or, that they've (or Griffiths anyway) been offered higher contracts from Germany? Making our position difficult (if they value him nearer the first team than we do)...

 

[IGSpur]

Poch doesn't strike me as the sort of coach who would be swayed by fans chanting.

Why not? He was getting the JO treatment the previous 9 games before the Villa match. Before his pile of goals in EL he got on for 20mins once when we were 4-0 up, if only Poch did more of that.

We were 1-0 down at Villa and the fans were literally singing his name most of the game IIRC before he eventually brought him on and scored the winner. I don't think it was because he was 'working harder' than Soldado and Adebayor in training that he decided to bring him on, as he would have used him a lot more beforehand. Unless Kane only started working harder than them before the Villa game, which I highly doubt, I think there may have been other influences that brought him on. That then led him to getting a start the next game and the rest is history.

 

[spurs9]

Why not? He was getting the JO treatment the previous 9 games before the Villa match. Before his pile of goals in EL he got on for 20mins once when we were 4-0 up, if only Poch did more of that.

We were 1-0 down at Villa and the fans were literally singing his name most of the game IIRC before he eventually brought him on and scored the winner. I don't think it was because he was 'working harder' than Soldado and Adebayor in training that he decided to bring him on, as he would have used him a lot more beforehand. Unless Kane only started working harder than them before the Villa game, which I highly doubt, I think there may have been other influences that brought him on. That then led him to getting a start the next game and the rest is history.

What you said isn't true though, Kane came off the bench in 5 of those 9 games and in the game the week before the Villa game, he came on with 25 mins to go.

In comparison, our 26.5m striker did start 1 game but only came off the bench 3 times in that time. In the same period, Kane started every EL game, Soldado only started 2 out of the 5 EL games prior to the Villa game.

 

[therhinospeaks]

I understand an u23 player has been on trial to a 2nd division Polish side but they've turned him down. Seems a bit odd and struggling to think who it might be.

 

[Westmorland]

UEFA YL game at home to Porto. OS says this will be 13 March KO 3pm. Thats 2 weeks today . Location for the game TBC.

 

[IGSpur]

What you said isn't true though, Kane came off the bench in 5 of those 9 games and in the game the week before the Villa game, he came on with 25 mins to go.

In comparison, our 26.5m striker did start 1 game but only came off the bench 3 times in that time. In the same period, Kane started every EL game, Soldado only started 2 out of the 5 EL games prior to the Villa game.

Yes for 5 or so minutes. He came on for 20 odd minutes when we were 4-0 up right near the start then got sporadic minutes or wasn't even included in the squad. The game against Newcastle he came on when we were 1 nil up then we lost. No doubt his form had given Poch more encouragement to play him, but against Villa we were 1 nil down early, and after what Kane had been doing, the crowd were chanting his name for a large period of the game. Re: EL Kane was always going to play EL, Poch has implied or shown he doesn't really care about the competition, he wasn't going to risk his main strikers in it.

Either way I believe something like the whole crowd chanting for a player would have affected the manager, but then I also believe that the manager isn't making completely objective decisions and there are other variables that come into play such as price tag, and it isn't as simple as who is the better player. You and others obviously belief that Poch thinks only objectively and doesn't care about other things though he is human.

 

[IGSpur]

UEFA YL game at home to Porto. OS says this will be 13 March KO 3pm. Thats 2 weeks today . Location for the game TBC.

Hopefully they put it back at the training ground. Shame we're not at the Lane. I was wondering what stadium we'd use if we went far in any cup. Wembley would be excessive

 

[spurs9]

Yes for 5 or so minutes. He came on for 20 odd minutes when we were 4-0 up right near the start then got sporadic minutes or wasn't even included in the squad. The game against Newcastle he came on when we were 1 nil up then we lost. No doubt his form had given Poch more encouragement to play him, but against Villa we were 1 nil down early, and after what Kane had been doing, the crowd were chanting his name for a large period of the game. Re: EL Kane was always going to play EL, Poch has implied or shown he doesn't really care about the competition, he wasn't going to risk his main strikers in it.

Either way I believe something like the whole crowd chanting for a player would have affected the manager, but then I also believe that the manager isn't making completely objective decisions and there are other variables that come into play such as price tag, and it isn't as simple as who is the better player. You and others obviously belief that Poch thinks only objectively and doesn't care about other things though he is human.

Only 2 sub apps in the league were under 10 mins, Newcastle were 2-1 up when Kane came on with 25 mins to go and if price tag played such a big factor as you believe, Soldado would have played more mins prior to Kane's hattrick than Kane in all comps, which isn't the case.

Your one of my favorite posters on SC and I appreciate the insight you give us but I feel like your disappointment with the chances youth players haven't been getting recently is clouding you memory a bit.

 

[kmk]

Either way I believe something like the whole crowd chanting for a player would have affected the manager, but then I also believe that the manager isn't making completely objective decisions and there are other variables that come into play such as price tag, and it isn't as simple as who is the better player. You and others obviously belief that Poch thinks only objectively and doesn't care about other things though he is human.

Just reading this interview http://www.espn.co.uk/football/tott...ham-future-down-to-balance-at-club-pochettino with Poch on ESPN about Toby Alderweireld's contract situation and this quote stood out.

"But we don't take our decisions based on public opinion. We are professional and when we take a decision, it's because we have assessed and analysed, we have thought 100 times to try to take the best decision for the team and for the player."

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Yes for 5 or so minutes. He came on for 20 odd minutes when we were 4-0 up right near the start then got sporadic minutes or wasn't even included in the squad. The game against Newcastle he came on when we were 1 nil up then we lost. No doubt his form had given Poch more encouragement to play him, but against Villa we were 1 nil down early, and after what Kane had been doing, the crowd were chanting his name for a large period of the game. Re: EL Kane was always going to play EL, Poch has implied or shown he doesn't really care about the competition, he wasn't going to risk his main strikers in it.

Either way I believe something like the whole crowd chanting for a player would have affected the manager, but then I also believe that the manager isn't making completely objective decisions and there are other variables that come into play such as price tag, and it isn't as simple as who is the better player. You and others obviously belief that Poch thinks only objectively and doesn't care about other things though he is human.

Genuinely cannot get on board with that, in the slightest.