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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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So they leave after years of service and fetch you a profit. Ferguson spent a lot of money on first team stars. He broke the transfer record seven times. But when it came to squad players, he knew homegrown players can fill the gaps, and probably better than paying for a guy to warm the bench for a year or two who doesn't get the club, who doesn't acclimatize with the surroundings and who might not be better than the player he's blocking the path of.

Suppose John O'Shea came through at Bolton. Would he have looked good enough at that standard of team (lower half) for Ferguson to want to sign him? Probably not. But he came through at Utd, and was good enough to do a job at that standard (top) to make almost 400 games.

That sounds contradictory but it's actually quite simple. You can put Onomah in central midfield for Spurs and I believe he'll do better than at Villa. Better players, better football style. To use a past example, Ryan Mason wasn't really pulling up trees at his many loan moves, but he was given a chance by this manager, and actually for a while in 2014-15, he looked a class act.

Exactly. Granted Man Utd are in a better financial state to break records, but when we are hamstrung financially compared to our rivals, taking a page out of Fergie's book potentially saves us millions in transfer fees and wages, while making us millions when they decide to move on. You put average players with quality and they look decent, they leave and they might not. At worse that is what will happen to the best of our youth players, with the money saved/earned we can then put even more world class players around them. I will never understand the academy player has to be better than an international player to get a chance. As BG said would a 20year old Aurier have come through here, of course not and yet we're still working and having tos how patience with him. Look at TAA, look at Walker when he first started and then the patience we showed for next 8 years why not just give KWP the chance, no academy player has ever effed anyhting up for us.

You're other point is excellent too, and I think gets misconstrued here. I don't rate all of these academy players as top class or better than our first teamers. Even looking at Oduwa when he was at Rangers, if he wasn't our player I wouldn't advocate buying him, but while he is with us and showing promise where is the harm in trying them out in a better system, with better players. They do a job then move em on. Best case scenario they relaly learn, it does wonders for their confidence and they become WC. There isn't a standard path academy products follow but give the best a chance, and at worse they will fulfill a role in the squad then make money. The other benefits are that if they are squad players, rather than buying squad players from elsewhere, you will have a homegrown club conneciton in the squad, that might put in that little bit more effort or show that little bit more commitment repaying the club, that helped them rather than if they're not playing just looking to move on.

So many clubs/fans are gripped by the fear of failure, and the belief that inexperience means someone is a liabilty and will be detrimental. But when implemented successfully the academy can be a core reason for a clubs success
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Our u16s drew 3-3 with Arsenal yesterday

I don't think Llorente is injured

Heard it was personal reasons. Makes sense, as while not only is it unlikely for Poch to consider using an academy player in a game of that magnitude but even more weird considering Sterling played 90mins the day before.
 

coys200

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May 22, 2017
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Our u16s drew 3-3 with Arsenal yesterday



Heard it was personal reasons. Makes sense, as while not only is it unlikely for Poch to consider using an academy player in a game of that magnitude but even more weird considering Sterling played 90mins the day before.

Yup was just a body. But strange wasn’t foyth.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Yup was just a body. But strange wasn’t foyth.

What do you mean just a body?

And I guess he just wanted another attacking option or just a chance to give someone a spot on the bench. Aurier was there and Wanyama plus Dier could drop back in if needs be.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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If there were 5 players from each age group, U15 and U16 and U17 (first year scholars), that you could describe as real standouts, who would they be? And also, could you give me an insight on Elliot Thorpe’s playing style, Phoenix Patterson’s playing style and Armando Shashoua’s playing style and the impact all 3 of them have had this season, thanks.

Forgot to reply to this, but also hard to answer. There aren't always real standout, sometimes there's one among a load of good players, sometimes there's 4 or 5 among 4 terrible (relatively speaking) players, depending on the strength of the age group. Generally the best way to tell is to check the England players as from my experience in the last 3/4 years the England scouts especially wrt have been doing a good job in picking out the best players

u15s - NIle John, Tobi Oluwaemi, the Craig's and Lusala are the best u15s. They're all very good players, especially John who catches the eye.

u16s - Most have seen these now, and the group has experience some injuries so some have dropped down the pecking order. Binks, Walcott, Bennett, Cirkin (imo) and Madueke. Madueke and I guess Bennett would be the standout. Another good measure is how the England players compare to the other England players, and I think most England youth watchers would agree Madueke is a starter in England u16s strongest team though of course at that age a lot a can change in a years development. Bennett is probably the biggest winner in that regards in the last year

I haven't seen Thrope play now for over a year, and in that time he has grown a load, so I'm not sure how it might have affected his playing style. He was striker/attacker before but I believe he has become more of an AM but not 100% sure. He's one of the players I was really looking forward to seeing this year, but he has missed a whole season due to injuries unfortunately.

Patterson and Shashoua are very similar players. Very industrious, technically good, and versatile. I would say Patterson is more physically developed than Shashoua and a lot stronger, which is their main difference and more of a goal threat
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Forgot to reply to this, but also hard to answer. There aren't always real standout, sometimes there's one among a load of good players, sometimes there's 4 or 5 among 4 terrible (relatively speaking) players, depending on the strength of the age group. Generally the best way to tell is to check the England players as from my experience in the last 3/4 years the England scouts especially wrt have been doing a good job in picking out the best players

u15s - NIle John, Tobi Oluwaemi, the Craig's and Lusala are the best u15s. They're all very good players, especially John who catches the eye.

u16s - Most have seen these now, and the group has experience some injuries so some have dropped down the pecking order. Binks, Walcott, Bennett, Cirkin (imo) and Madueke. Madueke and I guess Bennett would be the standout. Another good measure is how the England players compare to the other England players, and I think most England youth watchers would agree Madueke is a starter in England u16s strongest team though of course at that age a lot a can change in a years development. Bennett is probably the biggest winner in that regards in the last year

I haven't seen Thrope play now for over a year, and in that time he has grown a load, so I'm not sure how it might have affected his playing style. He was striker/attacker before but I believe he has become more of an AM but not 100% sure. He's one of the players I was really looking forward to seeing this year, but he has missed a whole season due to injuries unfortunately.

Patterson and Shashoua are very similar players. Very industrious, technically good, and versatile. I would say Patterson is more physically developed than Shashoua and a lot stronger, which is their main difference and more of a goal threat

was going to say that the other day actually, he was warming up in front of me and i wasn't sure who it was - i know he was on the bench so would've been an easy deduction but okedina was there too and he wasn't amongst the subs so thought it might be someone else but yeah, he's about 5ft 7 now, last time i saw him he was probably 5ft flat. still looked very slight though, came on at rw and had a few nice touches.

my u16 top five for what it's worth would be parrott(assume you forgot him?), bennett, white, cirkin and probably binks - i thought he looked good in the qatar tour but less so in the recent italy games. i'll leave madueke out for now as i assume he's gone, but hopefully he ends up staying.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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was going to say that the other day actually, he was warming up in front of me and i wasn't sure who it was - i know he was on the bench so would've been an easy deduction but okedina was there too and he wasn't amongst the subs so thought it might be someone else but yeah, he's about 5ft 7 now, last time i saw him he was probably 5ft flat. still looked very slight though, came on at rw and had a few nice touches.

my u16 top five for what it's worth would be parrott(assume you forgot him?), bennett, white, cirkin and probably binks - i thought he looked good in the qatar tour but less so in the recent italy games. i'll leave madueke out for now as i assume he's gone, but hopefully he ends up staying.

Would be best easy to not recognise him and make that mistake if you hadn't seen him in a year. Very slight still as you say. So frustrating re his injuries as I really wanted to see him. Frustratingly he has been playing some u17 matches and obviously with Wales don't know why we've avoided using him.

And I definitely forgot about Parrot. White is also very good but I don't know if I'd describe him as real standout ATM. But I missed a couple of the recent games
 

coys200

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May 22, 2017
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What do you mean just a body?

And I guess he just wanted another attacking option or just a chance to give someone a spot on the bench. Aurier was there and Wanyama plus Dier could drop back in if needs be.

I mean he wanted 7 subs they normally have a back up player. Foyth was the only other available player from squad so weird they didn’t just use him. I don’t think there was anything tactical about it as he already had Son and moura. And when we needed 2 goals in last 10 mins he brought on sissoko for dele. If there was anything tactical in the choice he would have brought sterling on.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Would be best easy to not recognise him and make that mistake if you hadn't seen him in a year. Very slight still as you say. So frustrating re his injuries as I really wanted to see him. Frustratingly he has been playing some u17 matches and obviously with Wales don't know why we've avoided using him.

And I definitely forgot about Parrot. White is also very good but I don't know if I'd describe him as real standout ATM. But I missed a couple of the recent games

oh yeah, i didn't mean to imply that i see them as standouts, just that if i were to pick the five i've been most impressed by then it would be those i listed. i mean the intake is only going to be about 9 or 10 so the odds of five of them being what i consider standout is pretty slim. the current 1st years for example i have skipp and blf in that bracket, then probably half a dozen in the tier below. there always ends up being one that goes under the radar a bit though, this season it was markanday who i hadn't previously seen and he hadn't really been talked up much prior, the year before that it was hinds(when the likes of eyoma, tob and kirby were getting most of the attention) etc.
 
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IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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oh yeah, i didn't mean to imply that i see them as standouts, just that if i were to pick the five i've been most impressed by then it would be those i listed. i mean the intake is only going to be about 9 or 10 so the odds of five of them being what i consider standout is pretty slim. the current 1st years for example i have skipp and blf in that bracket, then probably half a dozen in the tier below. there always ends up being one that goes under the radar a bit though, this season it was markanday who i hadn't previously seen and he hadn't really been talked up much prior, the year before that it was hinds(when the likes of eyoma, tob and kirby were getting most of the attention) etc.

As you mentioned Markanday it reminded me of the discussion last year when I believe he was the last to be offered his place. I said at the time what ate the chances the last player I'd the best and he was that player, and other than the 2 Eng u18 players I'd say he has been the best player from that age group this season.
 

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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Would be best easy to not recognise him and make that mistake if you hadn't seen him in a year. Very slight still as you say. So frustrating re his injuries as I really wanted to see him. Frustratingly he has been playing some u17 matches and obviously with Wales don't know why we've avoided using him.

And I definitely forgot about Parrot. White is also very good but I don't know if I'd describe him as real standout ATM. But I missed a couple of the recent games
I don’t think Thorpe has been injured most of the season , yes some of it . But he has played with the younger age group more often then not , spurs do tend to do this with the smaller less stronger boys . I think he played a similar position to Patterson at one stage , probably focusing more on Patterson this year as they don’t want to loose him like they lost his brother kane therefore giving him more game time
Over Thorpe .
 

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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I am also hearing rumours that we will not be having a large intake of scholars this year , unlike last year . Similar intake to the year before TOB , Griffith’s , year
 

neilp

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Jul 9, 2007
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I mean he wanted 7 subs they normally have a back up player. Foyth was the only other available player from squad so weird they didn’t just use him. I don’t think there was anything tactical about it as he already had Son and moura. And when we needed 2 goals in last 10 mins he brought on sissoko for dele. If there was anything tactical in the choice he would have brought sterling on.
Sterling being on the bench may just have been a way of rewarding him financially for his good work this season. I don’t how our club works but I do know other clubs pay a bonus to youngsters who make the bench.
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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I am also hearing rumours that we will not be having a large intake of scholars this year , unlike last year . Similar intake to the year before TOB , Griffith’s , year

The general consensus is that there are nine definites: Kurylowicz, Walcott, Binks, Cirkin, White, Bennett, Cooper, Asante, Parrott with Glean, D'arcy, Pedder and Madueke all possibles.

Nine would be a small intake. 13 still wouldn't be all that big so it could go either way.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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The general consensus is that there are nine definites: Kurylowicz, Walcott, Binks, Cirkin, White, Bennett, Cooper, Asante, Parrott with Glean, D'arcy, Pedder and Madueke all possibles.

Nine would be a small intake. 13 still wouldn't be all that big so it could go either way.

i imagine we'll have a small intake(9 or 10) this year to balance out the massive intake(16) from last year. can take skipp out as he won't be playing at this level next season(or perhaps any level if history is anything to go by), de bie and freeman(if he's still here) would also still be eligible so you'd be looking at a squad of 24-27 which is more than enough. one or two may get released along the way and some will move up to the u23s but then you'd expect a couple of the current u15s to play up as well at some point.
 

mancman

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Aug 24, 2006
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With regards to this years intake of first year scholars there is no mention of any players from abroad (discounting Troy Parrott). I wonder if any are in the pipeline. It seems it is a rare event when we do not get another player from abroad. In recent years we have signed Tainio, De Bie, Glover(Australia), Azzaoui, Veljkovic, Lesniak, Lameiras, Zapata- Caicedo, Bentalab, Gallifuoco, Coulibaly & Luongo in the last 8 years or so.
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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With regards to this years intake of first year scholars there is no mention of any players from abroad (discounting Troy Parrott). I wonder if any are in the pipeline. It seems it is a rare event when we do not get another player from abroad. In recent years we have signed Tainio, De Bie, Glover(Australia), Azzaoui, Veljkovic, Lesniak, Lameiras, Zapata- Caicedo, Bentalab, Gallifuoco, Coulibaly & Luongo in the last 8 years or so.

Zapata-Caicedo was raised in Enfield, I think he joined us as a 9 year old.
 
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