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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Heard Sancho had a great game yesterday and was searching for info on twitter and saw this tweet

@[B]FTalentScout[/B]
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Jadon has incredible, Ronaldinho-esque first touch. Lovely player. England have so many fantastic young wingers such as Sancho, Hudson-Odoi, Nelson, Sessegnon, Lookman, Willock, Edwards... Wow!

This account knows so much about youth football, and despite the fact Edwards has barely played this season, and is the 3rd oldest here yet has considerably less first team minutes than everyone else on the list, shows just how highly Edwards is rated but everyone that knows him, in comparison to other players.

It's such a shame we have one of the most talented players about, even in World football when he was younger, I'm sure many his age have now moved on having got chances, yet we can't be more flexible with the way we develop him. We've signed first teamers in the past with negative attitudes, and made allowances yet appear so stubborn with him. Him turning up to training isn't great, but giving him a sniff of first team football might be what he needs to incentivise (is that a word?) him. If you have a talent surely it's about bringing them through creatively.

Anyway the tweet this was attached too, was one about Sancho


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Jadon Sancho vs Bayer Leverkusen 1 goal 2 assists 29 passes 86% pass accuracy 7 key passes 3 dribbles won 1 tackle won 2 interceptions Absolutely amazing performance! What a player! #BVB

His touch to bring the ball down, in his path when he set u the 3rd goal was incredible. And I see Foden looked good coming on when City were 4-0 up, crazy decision, I don't think Pep has got the memo that it's not beneficial to them. Let's hope Pep continues to use Foden and all of the above continue to develop and come through. I have always said if England bring through just half of the players that regularly play for the England age groups side, so 5 of the u17s, 5 of the u18s, etc then we would win a World Cup. Let's jsut hope we do.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Sorry mate but Onomah has one good game in a blue moon. After today it’s clear CM is our main issue. Dembele had a few good games but he is on decline. We need a world class proven CM if we want to compete with very best and I’m sorry Onomah is just not good enough. Harsh but just the way it is. We’ve got a big boys new stadium we need to sign big boy players.

Except he hasn't. His last 2 games were good and his first 4/5 games he was their best player, while the others struggled around him. This is his first season playing any time of league football, in a team that does not suit his style. I don't know why you make such definitive statements on a game by game basis. How can you say 'it's just the way it is', when you have no idea of the future.

If Dembele leaves I'm all for signing some sort of World Class midfielder, though I doubt that would happen, but if we're going to sign our plan C, D, E, I'd rather we just get creative and starting utilising him more
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
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Onomah vs Ipswich:


Thank you for this. Looks a lot more confident, even if he's being played out of position. He should have had three assists as the pass @3:52 was perfect. Hopefully this performance get him another start for Villa.
 

guru

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2018
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Except he hasn't. His last 2 games were good and his first 4/5 games he was their best player, while the others struggled around him. This is his first season playing any time of league football, in a team that does not suit his style. I don't know why you make such definitive statements on a game by game basis. How can you say 'it's just the way it is', when you have no idea of the future.

If Dembele leaves I'm all for signing some sort of World Class midfielder, though I doubt that would happen, but if we're going to sign our plan C, D, E, I'd rather we just get creative and starting utilising him more
Most of our boys just need to be given a chance , the more they play in proper men’s football, the more confident they get then sky’s the limit . Unfortunately not all boys will be given the chance , so my hang up is , if you are given the chance like your onomah Edwards ect don’t mess it up by not giving 100 percent , turning up late , having attitude . This is definitely why pochettino does not want them in his team , they were given a bite of the cherry and didn’t take it , so he just gets rid of them .
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Most of our boys just need to be given a chance , the more they play in proper men’s football, the more confident they get then sky’s the limit . Unfortunately not all boys will be given the chance , so my hang up is , if you are given the chance like your onomah Edwards ect don’t mess it up by not giving 100 percent , turning up late , having attitude . This is definitely why pochettino does not want them in his team , they were given a bite of the cherry and didn’t take it , so he just gets rid of them .

What chance? How do you know someone's not giving a 100% it's all relative.

And he offered them both contracts so not sure he wants to get rid, despite 'offering a bite of the cherry'.

In any respect o hope he has the same energy for first readers who don't always give 100%
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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Most of our boys just need to be given a chance , the more they play in proper men’s football, the more confident they get then sky’s the limit . Unfortunately not all boys will be given the chance , so my hang up is , if you are given the chance like your onomah Edwards ect don’t mess it up by not giving 100 percent , turning up late , having attitude . This is definitely why pochettino does not want them in his team , they were given a bite of the cherry and didn’t take it , so he just gets rid of them .

In Edwards case it was more a case of being allowed a sniff of the cherry stalk.
 

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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What chance? How do you know someone's not giving a 100% it's all relative.

And he offered them both contracts so not sure he wants to get rid, despite 'offering a bite of the cherry'.

In any respect o hope he has the same energy for first readers who don't always give 100%
We only see them in games , which obviously everyone tries hard , the coaches see them in training .Basically Us as youth watchers only see them in games . I think you get to the stage where too many managers , coaches are saying the same thing , that it becomes believable . We can only defend certain boys for so long . They need to either shape up or move on . Hopefully it will be the latter
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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We only see them in games , which obviously everyone tries hard , the coaches see them in training .Basically Us as youth watchers only see them in games . I think you get to the stage where too many managers , coaches are saying the same thing , that it becomes believable . We can only defend certain boys for so long . They need to either shape up or move on . Hopefully it will be the latter

I agree with one thing here, I hope a lot of them move on, to clubs abroad and fulfill their potential.

Anyway I saw an interesting articel about George Green. He was a much hyped youth player, I remember him being on the bench for Everton u21s at 15. I don't remember him playing much, but he had a massive reputation. Well his career took a tumble, and it was eventually found out he suffered from Mental Health issues and was diagnosed with ADHD.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...n-prodigy-George-Green-new-life-football.html

I wonder how aware or considerate our club is to issues of these nature. The obvious player that comes to mind that fits Green's profile is Edwards. I actually think it was @coys200 that said something like this ie.e that Edwards may have ADHD or MH issues but I wouldn't want to say either way. I just read this article, realised the similarities with Edwards, the criticism he received then what coys200 said and thought I'd post the article. I wouldn't want to claim that Edwards is suffering from the same thing as Green as I don't know him at all, but I wonder, if he was or other academy players were, how would the club react. This is kind of what I mean but treating players differently, and not just having one expectation for all and expecting them to match it. They have been raised differently, have different background, skills, strengths, surely you make adjustments to how you deal with players, especially academy players to get the best out of them. I have known of other academy players to have confidence issues, and get criticised or for people to go on and point out they were never good enough. Caulker was also a player that was criticised, a player who came from the academy, and despite suffering from Mental Health issues, that appeared to develop due to us or Bristol City stupidly placing him around negative influences with no additional support and he ended up having a decent season for us in the PL.

In this day and age, with MH awareness increasing I wonder where the club are placed on this. I wonder if/when a young talented player acts up now or in the future, do they just consider them a pain in the arse, or maybe try to discover if there are any underlying issues, hidden up until as their talent has always been an overriding factor. As the article says, if a player said that had a foot injury everyone would understand, however if a player didn't turn up because there was something going on in their head, would people have the same understanding?
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Nile John is in the England u15 squad to play in the Torneo Nazionale, that begins next month, and Binks is training with England u17s atm, suggesting he is likely to be in the squad for the Euros next month
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Onomah vs Ipswich:


Great video mate. I just looked at Whoscored, and unless misread, it appears as though, for players that have made at least 20 appearances, the lazy Onomah has made the 3rd most tackles per 90mins, and the 5th most attempted tackles per 90mins. 3RD and 5TH of all players, in a league which is known for players busting a gut and getting about the pitch. That either indicates he is getting about the pitch and putting in a lot of effort, or if isn't he is incredibly efficient with his play. I said after the u20 World CUp his tackling as really improved and that stat and this video shows it

I wish they had a stat for distance covered. I definitely feel that he is misjudged due to his demeanour, and a lot of fans and Villa fans are a few years behind realising what he is like and about. I went through the whole, he needs to do more when he was 15/16 and after watching him repeated times, soon realised it was his demeanour and he is actually doing a lot, in terms of tackling and getting involved. It's like when fans of other clubs only rated Bale in the 12/13 season and we had known he was quality since the 09/10 season. He hasn't changed, he is still getting the same criticism and yet he has made the 3rd most tackles in the Championship.

Once you make peace with the fact he won't run around like a headless chicken, and ask why so many England youth coaches, are happy to play him CM, despite him being such a liability, you may come to realise he isn't a liability. I think people think Onomah and other academy players, will be a complete liability, and yet not one academy has ever cost us like Aurier has. Even now I still occasionally would like Onomah to 'do more' as I know it would help his case, but he isn't that type of player. Other strengths Onomah has, he is rapid, he is strong, he doesn't generally shy from a 50/50 I have seen him get into challenges that have made me wince, I don't know if that has changed since being in the Championship, and of course he is excellent on the ball. In the clip above he made some excellent passers, plus there was that tweet that showed he was in the top 10 I think progressive passers in the league.

I don't know how to read that tackling stat above, but if there still is a load of defensive work he needs to do, he surely suggests he is working from a great base if he was to improve on that. Luongo is top and he used to get around the pitch like an animal, if that was Mason people would be saying, that's his game he's a hard worker, and still be impressed he is third but this is a player who has constantly been described as lazy and a defensive liability, working hard in midfield and attacking areas.

Also, if there is one benefit of the loan, it appears that the last game he played well on the RW. Though he kept coming inside a lot, he seemed to be getting used to the idea, though it was against 10 men. I hope if that is the case, if Poch still plays him there, he might be able to show a bit more than he has in the past.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Great video mate. I just looked at Whoscored, and unless misread, it appears as though, for players that have made at least 20 appearances, the lazy Onomah has made the 3rd most tackles per 90mins, and the 5th most attempted tackles per 90mins. 3RD and 5TH of all players, in a league which is known for players busting a gut and getting about the pitch. That either indicates he is getting about the pitch and putting in a lot of effort, or if isn't he is incredibly efficient with his play. I said after the u20 World CUp his tackling as really improved and that stat and this video shows it

I wish they had a stat for distance covered. I definitely feel that he is misjudged due to his demeanour, and a lot of fans and Villa fans are a few years behind realising what he is like and about. I went through the whole, he needs to do more when he was 15/16 and after watching him repeated times, soon realised it was his demeanour and he is actually doing a lot, in terms of tackling and getting involved. It's like when fans of other clubs only rated Bale in the 12/13 season and we had known he was quality since the 09/10 season. He hasn't changed, he is still getting the same criticism and yet he has made the 3rd most tackles in the Championship.

Once you make peace with the fact he won't run around like a headless chicken, and ask why so many England youth coaches, are happy to play him CM, despite him being such a liability, you may come to realise he isn't a liability. I think people think Onomah and other academy players, will be a complete liability, and yet not one academy has ever cost us like Aurier has. Even now I still occasionally would like Onomah to 'do more' as I know it would help his case, but he isn't that type of player. Other strengths Onomah has, he is rapid, he is strong, he doesn't generally shy from a 50/50 I have seen him get into challenges that have made me wince, I don't know if that has changed since being in the Championship, and of course he is excellent on the ball. In the clip above he made some excellent passers, plus there was that tweet that showed he was in the top 10 I think progressive passers in the league.

I don't know how to read that tackling stat above, but if there still is a load of defensive work he needs to do, he surely suggests he is working from a great base if he was to improve on that. Luongo is top and he used to get around the pitch like an animal, if that was Mason people would be saying, that's his game he's a hard worker, and still be impressed he is third but this is a player who has constantly been described as lazy and a defensive liability, working hard in midfield and attacking areas.

Also, if there is one benefit of the loan, it appears that the last game he played well on the RW. Though he kept coming inside a lot, he seemed to be getting used to the idea, though it was against 10 men. I hope if that is the case, if Poch still plays him there, he might be able to show a bit more than he has in the past.

he presses well and tackles effectively when the ball is in his zone but where he probably lacks is once it's gone past him he doesn't react quickly enough to it. this isn't really an issue in his natural deep midfield role as he's not going to end up being ahead of the ball a great deal but when he's playing in a more advanced position he often seems to think that once he's pressed his job is done. i completely get why someone can look at his defensive work as an AM and be scared at the thought of him playing deeper but i've never come away from a game where he's playing cm and thought that he was anywhere close to being a liability.

i just want to see poch stick him in alongside dier or wanyama for a few games in pre season and see how he does, i don't think that's too much to ask for and who knows, maybe he'll put himself forward as a genuine option in the same way that winks and mason did previously.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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he presses well and tackles effectively when the ball is in his zone but where he probably lacks is once it's gone past him he doesn't react quickly enough to it. this isn't really an issue in his natural deep midfield role as he's not going to end up being ahead of the ball a great deal but when he's playing in a more advanced position he often seems to think that once he's pressed his job is done. i completely get why someone can look at his defensive work as an AM and be scared at the thought of him playing deeper but i've never come away from a game where he's playing cm and thought that he was anywhere close to being a liability.

i just want to see poch stick him in alongside dier or wanyama for a few games in pre season and see how he does, i don't think that's too much to ask for and who knows, maybe he'll put himself forward as a genuine option in the same way that winks and mason did previously.

And the reacting part is something that can be worked on, just as any player gets worked on. Like you say it won't be as obvious if he was in CM but it is all very promising atm
 

thefierycamel

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Dec 31, 2014
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Not sure why it got taken down tbh. It's footage of one single player with music masking the commentary and other sounds. That's a load of rubbish
 
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