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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

George94

George
Feb 1, 2015
3,661
19,454
You simply cannot ignore the numbers - I think we should reward Griffiths with a place with the first team squad for the pre-season tours etc and see how he performs.
 

Goldman

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2004
7,087
2,141
If you look at the amount of game time Llorente has had, often overlooked with Son coming in as the preferred option, it’s not hard to see why young strikers would want to leave. First team opportunities are very low and often non-existent.

Even in games we have dominated or cup games against low league opposition at home, youth players barely get any minutes.

The problem seems to be we want two first team standard players for each position, and therefore to keep them all match fit and happy, squad players get games where youth players should be given opportunities.

I’m not a coach, but you’d think are talented youth players like KWP, Onomah etc. should be getting more than 5 mins or less at the end of a handful of games. Personally I think we should be braver to include these players in our rotation of squad players. It’s surely they only way they will develop. Can we say KWP has really developed much this season?

Without these opportunities it won’t be a surprise to see talented youth players look elsewhere.
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
It’s definitely harder to get these kids first team chances when every game matters so much. As I see it there’s 2 things we could do, 1 is in our hands and the other isn’t. Firstly we could be better at loaning our players out. Secondly we could be lobbying the premier league to allow larger subsistute benches. If there were 11 subs for example we could easily put a few on the bench. (I’m sure this is planned somewhere, not sure it’s the premier league though, might be the champions league).

Levy was one of the chairman who lobbied to get it put up to 7 for exactly that reason but it changed nothing. Managers aren’t interested
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
If you look at the amount of game time Llorente has had, often overlooked with Son coming in as the preferred option, it’s not hard to see why young strikers would want to leave. First team opportunities are very low and often non-existent.

Even in games we have dominated or cup games against low league opposition at home, youth players barely get any minutes.

The problem seems to be we want two first team standard players for each position, and therefore to keep them all match fit and happy, squad players get games where youth players should be given opportunities.

I’m not a coach, but you’d think are talented youth players like KWP, Onomah etc. should be getting more than 5 mins or less at the end of a handful of games. Personally I think we should be braver to include these players in our rotation of squad players. It’s surely they only way they will develop. Can we say KWP has really developed much this season?

Without these opportunities it won’t be a surprise to see talented youth players look elsewhere.

For a coach who often talks about players needing to be brave it’s quite ironic he himself shows very little bravery in terms of team selections and substitutions
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
You could see how it would be easy to think that Griffiths numbers were mainly due to his physical dominance. Possibly the way Chelsea thought about Lukaku. But he can only beat what’s put in front of him and he’s certainly done that. I’d honestly be amazed if Levy let him go. It goes against everything he has has built the squad on. Finding a gem and hoping he turns out to be a worldy. No idea if it’s about pathway or money. If it’s pathway then he will be 22 when Kane is 30 which is almost perfect as a successor. If it’s money can it really be that much. Maybe he wants 30k and we’ve offered 15k. Whatever the numbers there can’t be a huge difference. Must surely be worth taking the gamble on him. De Bruyne Salah Lukaku have shown when you have a promising young player at your club you need to be 1000% sure before letting him go.
 

mill

Well-Known Member
May 21, 2007
10,385
37,100
You could see how it would be easy to think that Griffiths numbers were mainly due to his physical dominance. Possibly the way Chelsea thought about Lukaku. But he can only beat what’s put in front of him and he’s certainly done that. I’d honestly be amazed if Levy let him go. It goes against everything he has has built the squad on. Finding a gem and hoping he turns out to be a worldy. No idea if it’s about pathway or money. If it’s pathway then he will be 22 when Kane is 30 which is almost perfect as a successor. If it’s money can it really be that much. Maybe he wants 30k and we’ve offered 15k. Whatever the numbers there can’t be a huge difference. Must surely be worth taking the gamble on him. De Bruyne Salah Lukaku have shown when you have a promising young player at your club you need to be 1000% sure before letting him go.

If he refuses to sign a contract there’s nothing the club can do
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
You could see how it would be easy to think that Griffiths numbers were mainly due to his physical dominance. Possibly the way Chelsea thought about Lukaku. But he can only beat what’s put in front of him and he’s certainly done that. I’d honestly be amazed if Levy let him go. It goes against everything he has has built the squad on. Finding a gem and hoping he turns out to be a worldy. No idea if it’s about pathway or money. If it’s pathway then he will be 22 when Kane is 30 which is almost perfect as a successor. If it’s money can it really be that much. Maybe he wants 30k and we’ve offered 15k. Whatever the numbers there can’t be a huge difference. Must surely be worth taking the gamble on him. De Bruyne Salah Lukaku have shown when you have a promising young player at your club you need to be 1000% sure before letting him go.

the figures(wages) you're talking about wouldn't be anywhere near that much, even edwards i'm pretty sure is "only" on 10k and that's a figure the club considers to really be pushing the limit. i'm not going to say money doesn't come into it whatsoever but the overriding factor in griffiths' decision is whether he feels that he's likely to break through any time soon, no doubt he looks at those he's played with like kwp/edwards and where they find themselves currently and thinks that he'd probably be better served going elsewhere.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
If it’s pathway it will be no easier at any other top 6 club. If it was me I’d give it till 19. Chances at top 6 clubs don’t grow on trees. He’s seen what’s happened to young English players that have broken through here. You never know what may happen, injury crisis etc. Surely has to be worth giving it 2 more years. Nobody has a right at 17 to expect 1st team football.
 

therhinospeaks

Well-Known Member
Dec 18, 2014
667
818
If it’s pathway it will be no easier at any other top 6 club. If it was me I’d give it till 19. Chances at top 6 clubs don’t grow on trees. He’s seen what’s happened to young English players that have broken through here. You never know what may happen, injury crisis etc. Surely has to be worth giving it 2 more years. Nobody has a right at 17 to expect 1st team football.

might be simply £££££££ rather than pathway
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
might be simply £££££££ rather than pathway

But that just goes back to original argument. If it is £££££ it can’t be that much and surely worth the gamble on our side. Saying that if a player at 17 is more worried about £ than his career path would set off alarm bells for me.
 

guru

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2018
233
413
Only 2 schoolboys. When we played them earlier in the season we played 2 schoolboys too. I reckon it was a similar strength team. Okoflex and McEneff are both talented players, I don't know much about the rest, but we had Walcott and Statham at CB last time making a few errors. So not really an excuse to lose by THAT

Agree. Still don't know where I stand with him, which is interesting considering his goals. Seen him play more than enough, and even still I have seen him develop quite a bit in his awareness and finishing, but as you say still something missing. Only his 2nd/3rd year as a striker so still a lot of learning/developing and these numbers which are better than any u18 striker I can remember for a while, show he has a lot to build on.


As Waxman said he is nothing like Kane. You could tell from watching Kane, and I don't remember how many goals he scored, that Kane looked a better striker or footballer, and it is n't the same at all watching them. I could give an opinion on Kane at the time, but I am still unsure what I think about Griffiths and he's finished his 2nd year.


He played a couple of games a striker at u16 level I think in a tournament at SGP, when they faced US. I believe it's the tournament Hinds pulled out of. I actually don't remember him going to the Euros, but that could be because he never got on. He definitely deserves another call-up especially as Brewster is still injured. Not sure were Soule and Samuels are at with their development but you can't argue with Griffiths goals, though Loader is probably next in line. As I said in a previous post him, Hinds and BLF deserve call-ups, even Richards if the 00s attack wasn't so strong, but it appears there are no more u18s games this year.

Also found out from Lilywhiterose that Thorpe was being looked at by Sporting Lisbon before we signed him
I think since Scott Parker has taken over the u18 it’s becoming more about winning then development , not moaning about it just saying . As normally at this stage of the season we bring in a lot more of the year below in to play the final games eg new scholars . But Parker seems to be fielding his strongest side all the time , just to get results . We probably had your strongest side out v arsenal , knowing that they would have had a much weaker side out , due to FA youth cup . So would have been a good chance to play a few youngsters , but looks like development went out the window as wanted to pay them back for smashing us earlier in the season
 
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WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
If it’s pathway it will be no easier at any other top 6 club. If it was me I’d give it till 19. Chances at top 6 clubs don’t grow on trees. He’s seen what’s happened to young English players that have broken through here. You never know what may happen, injury crisis etc. Surely has to be worth giving it 2 more years. Nobody has a right at 17 to expect 1st team football.

Maitland-Niles, Nketiah, Willock, Nelson have all had involvement for Arsenal this season.
Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Solanke at Liverpool.
Foden, Diaz at City.
Hudson-Odoi, Ampadu, Musonda, Boga at Chelsea
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
I think since Scott Parker has taken over the u18 it’s becoming more about winning then development , not moaning about it just saying . As normally at this stage of the season we bring in a lot more of the year below in to play the final games eg new scholars . But Parker seems to be fielding his strongest side all the time , just to get results . We probably had your strongest side out v arsenal , knowing that they would have had a much weaker side out , due to FA youth cup . So would have been a good chance to play a few youngsters , but looks like development went out the window as wanted to pay them back for smashing us earlier in the season

it was a school day to be fair, might've been a different story had it been a saturday. i think another factor is that with the 1st year intake being so big you need to give them all a fair chance so it makes it harder to bring up some of the u16s.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
It's very strange and yet understandable that he hasn't appear much for England, and I'd still argue that as a player Harrison was probably a better striker/player.

I've always liked Griffiths, as you know, but there's no doubt that Harrison was a far better footballer at the same age. Harrison always had a great touch, good balance, good eye for a pass, decent movement dropping deep, good composure, clinical finisher and excellent goals to games ratio. Harrison looked like a million dollars when we were the better side, when we were pushed up nice and high so he had eager runners off of him and wide players delivering balls into the box. Where he struggled was in games where the opposition put us under pressure because he would get dragged so deep and he didn't have the pace and power to threaten from there. In games like that he could look like a total passenger. He has to be played high and with support around him. Unlike Kane he can't wrestle himself free and make chances for himself, he just lacks that natural physicality. Griffiths on the other hand seems to have that power but just lacks the finesse that made Harrison so enjoyable to watch at times.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
I think since Scott Parker has taken over the u18 it’s becoming more about winning then development , not moaning about it just saying . As normally at this stage of the season we bring in a lot more of the year below in to play the final games eg new scholars . But Parker seems to be fielding his strongest side all the time , just to get results . We probably had your strongest side out v arsenal , knowing that they would have had a much weaker side out , due to FA youth cup . So would have been a good chance to play a few youngsters , but looks like development went out the window as wanted to pay them back for smashing us earlier in the season

Don't think that's the case at all. He gave an interview only this morning talking about personal development being the key and he added that they'll be reviewing everyone's progress in the coming days. I think what you're seeing is just individual improvement manifesting itself in team improvement. Scotty is probably more of a winner than those we've had in the past and demands more intensity and drive from the lads. With his previous he can probably speak to the lads with genuine authority and clout. He can tell them home truths in a way that gets the best out of them as individuals. If you can't hear advice from Scotty P as a young footballer then you probably don't have the right attitude to make it in the professional game anyway.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
Maitland-Niles, Nketiah, Willock, Nelson have all had involvement for Arsenal this season.
Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Solanke at Liverpool.
Foden, Diaz at City.
Hudson-Odoi, Ampadu, Musonda, Boga at Chelsea

Gomez had already played at least 20 odd games for Charlton in the Championship, so I'm not sure he counts as a youth being given a chance, not unless Alli does with us, which he doesn't. Also Solanke had spent a season playing in the Eredivisie so he wasn't an untested youth either.
 

JRSG

Active Member
Mar 25, 2015
70
117
Why would Griffiths wait till he's 19. He's probably using Kaz Sterling as a barometer and thinking he doesn't want to end up in that situation. Griffiths is a 2000 who has barely even had a sniff at U23 football this year, most of his peers were breaking into it in 16/17 and will be outgrowing it by next season.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Maitland-Niles, Nketiah, Willock, Nelson have all had involvement for Arsenal this season.
Alexander-Arnold, Gomez, Solanke at Liverpool.
Foden, Diaz at City.
Hudson-Odoi, Ampadu, Musonda, Boga at Chelsea

But that’s mainly because we actually have a deeper squad than all those teams including city. We can virtually put out x2 international xi teams. City squad is actually tiny. Liverpool squad also pretty light. Arsenal squad is now awful. And Chelsea were struggling for numbers pre January. We virtually have international cover in every position. And most likely squad will just get stronger this summer. I think a lot of the holes in other top 6 squads will filled this summer especially city and Chelsea. But there’s no doubt Poch could have at least found bench places this season.
 
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