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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Can’t even find a photo :eek: anyone give a brief rating on following,don’t know to much about them:
Bennett
Reynolds
Richards
Patterson

I wrote this earlier when I was guessing what the intake might be. A few people have been commenting on Bennett recently so I don't need to say anymore until I see him more. Though I remember reading the Cambridge live updates, and they said they couldn't handle the no.11 and it makes sense how Cambridge u16s couldn't deal with a player skinning 18 yearolds

Richards I have always got the feeling is a very good striker being hidden by better players. Kind of like when Harrison never played as we had Akindayini though Akindayini wasn't that good. He looks a natural forward and is very intelligent player. Pleased he has bagged 2 hattricks in one week

Reynolds is very industrious, and I think he has done well at LB so far. I think we should keep him there for now since BLF has now left that position.

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...read-–-2016-2017.125314/page-159#post-5371112

Is super hotspur.com someone on here? Very good match reviews. This is on Lloyd- bennet from 4-1 win over Villa. Think we might have found another one.

My man of the match: I feel really bad not giving it to the hat-trick hero Rodel Richards who was absolutely phenomenal out wide. But I’m going to award it to the school boy J’neil Lloyd-Bennett, the wide man who I first saw play at the under 16 game in Cambridge a couple of months back, appears to be making rapid progress since joining our Academy from QPR. This was his third consecutive under 18 game in a row, and I’m sure it will have been his best. This kids got incredible ability, he had Aston Villa defenders on the floor during todays game, they just couldn’t cope with his speed, power and decision making especially in the final third. He took his goal so well, but it was his eagerness to just run at defenders with sublime pieces of skill (think Zaha) he also delivers a mean cross. I know it’s only the second time that I’ve seen him live but I really like how he plays. Something I liked in particular was the way he played with a smile on his face, he appeared to be loving the game, buoyant and determined throughout the 90 minutes.

I may be wrong and at the risk of tarring the wrong person, I'm fairly sure this is the person that used to constantly message me on twitter asking me for my opinion on players and matches before writing about them in his reports. He would then post me the articles. He would constantly message me and I believe the academy account. I wasn't sure if he was an adult trying to ride off other poeple's info, or a kid who was interested and dint' have the means to get to games and was just trying to write articles. So I asked, before I gave him more info and he blocked me. Whoever it is at least they appear to now be making the effort to go and is writing some decent reports.

That also reminds me, I was on a Spurs forum and saw someone completely ripping my posts from here and passing it off as their own. Sharing opinions is fine and inevitable but that is just blatant copying
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
The thing is, why don't we put kwp on the bench anyway? If we're rotating the full backs then you can assume that neither are likely to come on at any point in the match and if there's an injury, kwp can play both positions fairly well? It means we give him more opportunities to make an appearance and we free up a spot on the bench for another youth player like edwards or sterling.

This is the best and most sensible post I've seen of KWP's situation outside of giving him actual games. I'm sure he's a better LB than Trippier and Aurier and he is a better RB than Rose and Davies. Chances are you're not ever going to replace both FB's and if they are being rotated to keep fresh why bring them on like you say. That would mean FB replacement only takes one place on the bench, he gets any game time if one needs to come off for any reason. And if there is an emergency and the other needs to go off then Dier can go RB and Vertonghen LB if necessary.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
do any of these young lads, eg Richards or JDL look like they can be fast tracked?
Presume you meant JLB, in a sense he already is by being in the U18s not sure if he’s 15 or 16. And there’s plenty in development that are at front of the line Edwards sterling tanganga etc
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
If Poche were to leave tomorrow, I'd be disappointed that he hadn't done more, but I do believe he's seeking to do more. It's yet to be seen if he will. And I'd rather have him in charge of this process and crop of youngsters than anybody else.
I think I should point out, as like @WindyCOYS I don't think this comes across to many people. I 100% agree with that last sentence, well I agree with the whole paragraphy but the last sentence in partcular.

There isn't a manager in the PL better at bringing through academy players than Poch, BUT, Poch also isn't any better at brining academy players than any other manager. My gripe is when people say he will do it, based off what I perceive to be a falsre reputation, at the moment. All the PL as we agree are really failing the academy system and that includes are manager and we both agree they should be utilising those that are good enough more.

HOOWWEEVER, while I believe he is no better, he is in my opinion the best developer of young players in the league. I have complete faith so far that when an academy player does manager to break through the near impossible wall, that Poch is the manager I want them playing under. I want to make it count when tey do come through. Look what Wenger has done with his crop. So, yes he can improve but I wouldn't want anyone else in charge of doing this as no one has proved they are any better. And more importantly, Poch is doing so well with the first etam it isn't worth the risk of replacing him with someone who may use the academy more but get poorer results with the first team. That is stupid.

I agree, if I were his boss, I'd also be pushing for him to be braver with the kids.

I think long term our right backs will be Aurier and KWP. I'd have been happy to not sign Aurier in the summer, but I also see it was an opportunity we couldn't really pass up. It's tough for Kyle, but I'm confident he'll make it with us. But it's definitely very difficult when you have three first team right backs.

This was a difficult situation I agree. I would have been happy with 2 RBs and KWP being one of them, but from everything I had heard about Aurier he was really good. So I would have preferred him come in and we sell Trippier, but that is also a risk as we'd have 2 relative unknowns but even if Aurier struggled initially I'd back Kyle. Now we are in a difficult position but I think @thefierycamel has the best solution to the situation we find ourselves in.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
Paid to train, not to play...

Poch is definitely sticking by that

So if Sterling trains better than Kane he’ll get picked to play Instead of Kane?

Yeah cos that's exactly what that phrase means! :asshat:

I know BC was exaggerating a point to make a point, but I think it is fair. When Poch says they are paid to train not play how far does that saying reach. For a less exaggerated point.

Son is on absolute fire right now, while some of our attackers are in a current dip in form. I believe Son should be starting, as he is doing it on the pitch right now. If Alli or Eriksen despite being in relative poor form but are 'training harder' than Son, which is subjective and we can't comment on, do you think it's fair that Son doesn't get a start despite actually doing it where ti mattes and performing the best on the pitch. There's no right or wrong answer obviously, but if I was Son I'd be massively annoyed.

And if he isn't training as hard, but is performing better on the pitch how good do pitch performances have to be before that rule is broken? Or is it never broken? I wouldn't doubt that Kane is the best trainer, but I wouldn't necessarily be surprised to find KWP being as a good a trainer as Aurier or Trippier for example.Would the rule be more enforced for academy players than established stars?is what I'm getting at or is it rigidly stuck too?
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I'm not really entitled to post on this thread on the basis of my lack of in-depth knowledge of the youth scene at Spurs, but a point I'd like to make in Poch's defence: he doesn't over-face young players.

In other words, he doesn't throw them in too young or too callow. He doesn't throw them in for the sake of it. He doesn't throw them in to bring up the numbers of academy graduates who've played for the first team (remember Van Gaal in his final season at Man U?) or to have another notch on the bedpost after his successes at Southampton. Winks has been quietly sensational because Poch waited until he was good and ready, mentally and physically and tactically. He waited until Winks was a man, and now he's an England international.

I take the point made about KWP in particular and I'd be horrified if this time next year he hasn't had a lot more experience under his belt. But this I do expect: if and when KWP does become a regular member of the match-day 14, it won't take him very long after that to win an England cap. Because a template has been created and Poch will not rush the process.

A potentially long and fruitful Spurs career starting at the age of 21 or 22, or a few appearances at 18/19 followed in due course by a move to Fulham? I know which I'd prefer for our youngsters.

We're all entitled to post mate.

I get your points and as BC said I don't want it to be quotas or for the sake of it, but I think he is maybe too reserved and I think he probably should use it to cover injuries like Van Gaal does. One point regularly forgotten about the academy is the financial benefits. Of course we'd all prefer a long and fruitful career starting late than a move to Fulham early. However, there is no guarantee of either from the approach is currently employs. Despite having an incredibly talented age group, and I believe most could play PL football I know only one or two will have long careers. Others may outgrow us and some may find out they;re not good enough, but if we use them more those who don't quite make it or outgrow us will bring us in massive fees, that we can then use to improve the squad with quality from the outside and put more money on wages.

Winks could be the only player we bring through and have a steady Spurs career and not leave, but before Poch players like Townsend, Caulker, Carroll, Mason and Bentaleb all came through contributed a bit, just as any squad player does but then left leaving us with massive profits. If we ended up bring through a player and selling them to Fulham that will still also be seen as a success on the outside to attract better players and earn us more money.

I understand that whole bring into the fold stuff which makes sense, but let's say we have a Carling Cup match, and he gave Georgiou a 90 to rest players. And Georgiou had a blinder, Poch may think let's use him to reinforce the squad, he makes a couple of more subs by the end of the season someone may be willing to pay 8m in this market for him. It all counts
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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The solace I am taking from the current situation is that I feel (no justification for this whatsoever) that Poch is doing with KWP (and TOB) what he did with Winks a couple of seasons ago. If you'll recall we all were saying Winks was stagnating as he was training with the first team, travelling to games but was playing little to no football in terms of matches. No U23 involvement and no appearances off the bench.

As it turns out the process has worked really well, as when Poch did send him on he had full confidence in him, and it didn't matter who we were playing, if Poch felt we needed his attributes he went on, it wasn't just against easy teams or coming on at 3-0. Last year he obviously had a lot of involvement off the bench, and this year it is clear that he is a key member of the first team squad.

I think (hope) that this is what is being done with KWP and TOB atm, heavy first team involvement in terms of training and travelling, with a view to sub appearances and a few starts next season. I actually think we would have seen a lot more of Onomah this season had he stayed, as he'd just come off the season of integration and this year was his time to get some more game time.

I don't know, am i just being naively hopeful?

Hope so. Though KWP is even further behind Winks at this moment in time, when you consider how concerned we were with Winks' time it is worrying but not the end. At KWP's age, last year for Winks, he eventually went on to make 4 starts before being injured. While I think Winks could have made more, at this point it is hard to see where KWP will add to the one start he made at the beginning of the season.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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This was a difficult situation I agree. I would have been happy with 2 RBs and KWP being one of them, but from everything I had heard about Aurier he was really good. So I would have preferred him come in and we sell Trippier, but that is also a risk as we'd have 2 relative unknowns but even if Aurier struggled initially I'd back Kyle. Now we are in a difficult position but I think @thefierycamel has the best solution to the situation we find ourselves in.

it's not a realistic suggestion though, even if it is one that makes sense.

it's hard to see what the plan for kwp is, everyone assumes there must be one but i'm yet to hear a convincing argument as to how they think poch is going to work this situation. a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that trippier will be moved on at some point but i'm not sure that will be the case, not for a while anyway and how long is kwp supposed to wait around for this to happen? i think poch really likes trippier and aurier will be given time to establish himself so i can't see where kwp fits in.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
it's not a realistic suggestion though, even if it is one that makes sense.

it's hard to see what the plan for kwp is, everyone assumes there must be one but i'm yet to hear a convincing argument as to how they think poch is going to work this situation. a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that trippier will be moved on at some point but i'm not sure that will be the case, not for a while anyway and how long is kwp supposed to wait around for this to happen? i think poch really likes trippier and aurier will be given time to establish himself so i can't see where kwp fits in.

What do you mean not realistice. as in Poch won't do it, or we wouldn't cover ourselves sufficiently?

Vorm, Aurier, Foyth, Rose, Sissoko, Lamela, Llorente, could become Vorm, KWP, Foyth, Sissoko, Lamela, Llorente, then an additional spot becomes available for an academy player. Thing is once, Wanyama comes back he will be included on the bench and take that potential academy spot, so we could use it while it is potentially available. That will then leave only one FB on the bench anyway so it might as well be the one that can play both sides.

Outside of that I agree with your second paragraph. I can't see where it happens at the moment. And it's also frustrating seeing him play LB, he plays it to a decent level but he is so much better and expansive at RB, and has only ever played their once. However, I'd be happy to see him play either side at the moment. Kenny's been doing OK
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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What do you mean not realistice. as in Poch won't do it, or we wouldn't cover ourselves sufficiently?

Vorm, Aurier, Foyth, Rose, Sissoko, Lamela, Llorente, could become Vorm, KWP, Foyth, Sissoko, Lamela, Llorente, then an additional spot becomes available for an academy player. Thing is once, Wanyama comes back he will be included on the bench and take that potential academy spot, so we could use it while it is potentially available. That will then leave only one FB on the bench anyway so it might as well be the one that can play both sides.

Outside of that I agree with your second paragraph. I can't see where it happens at the moment. And it's also frustrating seeing him play LB, he plays it to a decent level but he is so much better and expansive at RB, and has only ever played their once. However, I'd be happy to see him play either side at the moment. Kenny's been doing OK

poch won't do it, he's not going to tell aurier and rose(for example) to stay at home because kwp's taking their place.

if i were kwp and i was watching the merseyside derby this weekend just gone where six of my england u21 teammates started that game(and two more on the bench) i'd be straight onto my agent telling him to get me a loan in jan, but then maybe kwp's more level-headed and less impulsive than i am ...
 

kmk

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Oct 5, 2014
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Problem is I dont think the homegrown issue of it being anyone from abroad is an issue

I dont think foreign homegrown is an issue at all tbh,

Having a quick look at the premier league homegrown listed players, here are the amount of foreign homegrown players
Bournemouth - 1 (Ake
Arsenal - 3 (their GK, Bellerin Coquelin)
Brighton - 1 (Krul)
Burnley - 0
Chelsea - 1 (Fabregas)
Crystal Palace - 0
Everton - 2 (Schneiderlin & Siggy)
Huddersfield - 0
Leicester - 1 (Huth)
Liverpool - 0
Man City - 0
Man Utd - 2 (Lukaku & Pogba)
Newcastle - 0
Southampton - 0
Stoke - 0
Swansea - 1 (olsson)
Tottenham - 0
Watford - 1 (their GK)
West Brom - 0
West Ham - 0

So we are talking about 13 players in the whole league meanwhile there are a lot more players who are british but play for foreign nations after being in english youth teams that would no longer be british

See the problem is, instead of the clubs giving young players a chance and saying heres your shot or even importing young foreign talent, instead they are choosing to have less homegrown players and carry small squads as a result of the rules like Chelsea, Man City and etc.

In 2015, Greg Dyke proposed that we should increase the homegrown quota from 8 places to 12 and then lower the qualifying age(player must train in the UK for 3 years before they hit 21) from 21 to 18. Southampton reacted badly and most of the PL weren't going to let it happen.

The problem is the eu rules, its the fact the PL doesnt want to change

What about Kurt Zouma at Stoke (on loan from Chelscum) ?
 

beats1

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Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
What about Kurt Zouma at Stoke (on loan from Chelscum) ?
Hes not homegrown as he didnt spend 3 seasons in the uk before his 21st birthday, he's currently 23 years old and signed for chelsea in 2014
 

ripley

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Jan 7, 2005
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Last season he wasn't injured until Burnley in April. He was continually on the bench from Dec to April. I really don't think he is "on another planet" - he's just evolving with game time. I think he could and should have started more games than he did last year, especially as his skillset is a better balance and blend with Wanyama (who he could have been paired with most occasions) than Dembele or Dier, for many types of games where we dominate the ball and need to move it with some tempo, and that was still applicable last year. He made 4 league starts.

I seem to remember Poch saying something about Trippier last season...about how he had a newborn at home and hadn't been getting much sleep. He wasn't being picked to start because his mind was not 100% focused and he had irregular sleep, as he was getting up at all times during the night.
Or maybe i'm just mis-remembering...
 

ClonedFromSandrosBeard

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Jul 21, 2014
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417
Well that Windy article has definitely brought through some interesting discussion. Greatly affected my production at work reading it all!

I think Edwards is an interesting case but not being a youth watcher outside of highlights (which he does seem to feature in a lot, to be fair) I can't really say if I think he's ready or not.

Onomah is a more telling example of a mismanaged academy talent for me. There's still time of course but I think he should have been out on loan last year, looking at fighting for a place this year.

Maybe a loan for Edwards is needed to get a bit more exposure going?
 

Trix

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Jul 29, 2004
19,336
329,024
Well that Windy article has definitely brought through some interesting discussion. Greatly affected my production at work reading it all!

I think Edwards is an interesting case but not being a youth watcher outside of highlights (which he does seem to feature in a lot, to be fair) I can't really say if I think he's ready or not.

Onomah is a more telling example of a mismanaged academy talent for me. There's still time of course but I think he should have been out on loan last year, looking at fighting for a place this year.

Maybe a loan for Edwards is needed to get a bit more exposure going?

Thing is watching them at youth level is only one part of the pie. There are many other factors to be considered like knowing these players personally their mentalities and personalities etc. These kids are also gauged in training up against the senior players they are trying to replace. It is a huge step up to first team football, and while some players look exceptional against their age group many don't make the step up for various reasons, at all players. Equally there are others that don't look so good at youth level leave the top clubs and do brilliantly at lower levels and work their way back up to be top players. There have been countless posts on these forums in the past telling us how good player x is for example and how they should be getting first team Football, for them to drift into nothingness.

Watching them at youth level of course is a useful tool for judging the abilities of a player but there is so much more to consider than that.

I love reading some of the write ups in this thread, but for me the only people that can judge whether these kids are ready or not are the ones who get to see the whole picture, and just watching youth games is far from that.
 

WindyCOYS

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Feb 24, 2016
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Thing is watching them at youth level is only one part of the pie. There are many other factors to be considered like knowing these players personally their mentalities and personalities etc. These kids are also gauged in training up against the senior players they are trying to replace. It is a huge step up to first team football, and while some players look exceptional against their age group many don't make the step up for various reasons, at all players. Equally there are others that don't look so good at youth level leave the top clubs and do brilliantly at lower levels and work their way back up to be top players. There have been countless posts on these forums in the past telling us how good player x is for example and how they should be getting first team Football, for them to drift into nothingness.

Watching them at youth level of course is a useful tool for judging the abilities of a player but there is so much more to consider than that.

I love reading some of the write ups in this thread, but for me the only people that can judge whether these kids are ready or not are the ones who get to see the whole picture, and just watching youth games is far from that.
I think everyone in this thread is fully aware of all of those factors. It's just the value that we each put on each individual factor that changes amongst individuals.
 

Trix

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Jul 29, 2004
19,336
329,024
I think everyone in this thread is fully aware of all of those factors. It's just the value that we each put on each individual factor that changes amongst individuals.

Of course Windy, and I have said before I can understand those of you avid youth watchers having more desire than others to get these kids promoted to the first team quicker.

Let's just take Edwards as an example though. Clearly a talent at the level he is playing but if in first team training he is being easily and repeatedly pushed off the ball by the senior players, then is it not understandable that the coaching team think he is not physically ready for first team action?

As I say unless you see the whole picture it's all to easy to declare players ready, when in fact they very well might not be
 
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