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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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Why would Griffiths wait till he's 19. He's probably using Kaz Sterling as a barometer and thinking he doesn't want to end up in that situation. Griffiths is a 2000 who has barely even had a sniff at U23 football this year, most of his peers were breaking into it in 16/17 and will be outgrowing it by next season.
Correct for the size that he is , he should have been playing regular u23 football , this is probably why he is bossing the u18 league , all other players from other teams , who have that physicality will no doubt been playing u23 football for this season , thus the amount of goals he is scoring , he has completely outgrown his age group . If you whatched him in the few u23 games he has played he really has had no impact at all . I think he needs to leave to enhance his own career , as if spurs were managing him properly he would be a much better player then what he actually is for his size
 

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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413
Does anyone know what’s going on with Edwards ? Is he back training with the first team or u23’s ?
 

Luka Van der Bale

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Jan 29, 2011
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I think since Scott Parker has taken over the u18 it’s becoming more about winning then development , not moaning about it just saying . As normally at this stage of the season we bring in a lot more of the year below in to play the final games eg new scholars . But Parker seems to be fielding his strongest side all the time , just to get results . We probably had your strongest side out v arsenal , knowing that they would have had a much weaker side out , due to FA youth cup . So would have been a good chance to play a few youngsters , but looks like development went out the window as wanted to pay them back for smashing us earlier in the season
Can’t agree with this at all. Think it’s just because of the larger intake of first years this season. Tainio is getting a lot of minutes now he wasn’t getting earlier in the season, and we’ve consistently rotated the attacking midfielders.
 

Luka Van der Bale

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Jan 29, 2011
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Correct for the size that he is , he should have been playing regular u23 football , this is probably why he is bossing the u18 league , all other players from other teams , who have that physicality will no doubt been playing u23 football for this season , thus the amount of goals he is scoring , he has completely outgrown his age group . If you whatched him in the few u23 games he has played he really has had no impact at all . I think he needs to leave to enhance his own career , as if spurs were managing him properly he would be a much better player then what he actually is for his size
I think he’d be playing U23 football regularly if he had committed to signing with us. As it is, we obviously see no point promoting him as he’s leaving. We’ve seen similar scenarios in the past plenty of times.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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it is hard to get a sense of what will happen this summer....on the one hand we have some serious backing for Poch (we hope and anticipate thanks to @Hercules) and on the other hand we need to show our top talent that there is a pathway to the first team.
Seems like the way to thread the needle is for Poch to make sure (a) Winks still has scope to win a starting berth (once his injuries clear up) and (b) that KWP is one of two RB's and is in a straight fight for the top dog role in that spot.

If he can give one other young talent a chance of solid minutes in LC games etc. that would round things off and might be enough for those coming through....who could that third talent be? Not sure if it will be Josh but hope so

I don't think Poch should give minutes for the sake of it though. For me it is simple, if Poch rates a player and believes he is 'special' as he called Onomah or believes they are good enough to contribute to the squad, then he should use them as squad players or introduce them properly, in their best positions where possible. As long as it balances the first team. Even if you have 6 players good enough attempting to bring through all 6 probably isn't a good idea and won't help so you would have to stagger or loan some out.

However, if isn't playing them bescause he doesn't think they are good enough then sell them, and get some money to reinvest in the squad. It is such a simple solution.

The current situation is the manager apparently highly rates these players, but doesn't trust them or feel they're good enough for the PL after 4 years under him. What I think is he just isn't brave enough. Either way keep or sell them, stop stifling them and let them move on.

Last summer, we were linked to Pulisic and Sancho. If we bought Sancho, and I said this in his thread at the time, he would have gone into our u23s and probably trained with the first team, before maybe getting chances. If Pulisic came we would have had to pay north of 40m for him to go into the first team. Dortmund, sign Sancho, chuck him straight into the first team, and already I've seen some fans tweeting that he's better than Pulisic. Probably a bit premature at this point, but I believe he is. Point is if, that talent was here with no experience like Sancho, would Poch have thrown him straight into the first team? I highly doubt it. He would hesitate like has done with all our talent, and claimed they need to be working harder. We would end up paying 40m+ for another player elsewhere, who everyone deems a wonderkid, when if we showed a bit of faith have discovered our own and saved money. If you asked youth coaches around the world who the bigger talent was between Pulisic and Edwards when they were 16, I bet 80% would say Edwards. I'm confident that there are fans reading this now, laughing and thinking I'm stupid, but it's true. We need to change the way we work.

Back your talent or sell them. Either option would improve our first team, hanging onto them is pointless for everyone.

EDIT - loads of errors in main paragraph, corrected and more added
 
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IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I've always liked Griffiths, as you know, but there's no doubt that Harrison was a far better footballer at the same age. Harrison always had a great touch, good balance, good eye for a pass, decent movement dropping deep, good composure, clinical finisher and excellent goals to games ratio. Harrison looked like a million dollars when we were the better side, when we were pushed up nice and high so he had eager runners off of him and wide players delivering balls into the box. Where he struggled was in games where the opposition put us under pressure because he would get dragged so deep and he didn't have the pace and power to threaten from there. In games like that he could look like a total passenger. He has to be played high and with support around him. Unlike Kane he can't wrestle himself free and make chances for himself, he just lacks that natural physicality. Griffiths on the other hand seems to have that power but just lacks the finesse that made Harrison so enjoyable to watch at times.

That is one of the most accurate descriptions of Harrison. His physique really affected him, but I haven't seen him play in so long I don't know how he has developed. Also that is why I think he would have done well playing for his England age group up top but Solanke and Amstrong were on fire back in the day. Harrison was very silky which made him so enjoyable with a good scoring record.

To also put the whole Griffiths stuff in perspective, I think Harrison played more u23s matches than Griffiths as the same age. I can't remember his scoring record but it was decent too. People really are rushing Griffiths, granted Rashford kind of did it, I don't see how a player can go straight from u18s to the first team without proving himself at u23s. I remember when Oduwa was tearing up u18s we were worried and talking about whether he could translate it to the u23s. Well Griffiths is in a similar position, so it would be strange to throw him straight into the first team. Though saying that if he is in form, there may be no harm in taking him on preseason if he stayed.

@Blake Griffin where did you get those Griffiths stats from the other page?
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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It’s definitely harder to get these kids first team chances when every game matters so much. As I see it there’s 2 things we could do, 1 is in our hands and the other isn’t. Firstly we could be better at loaning our players out. Secondly we could be lobbying the premier league to allow larger subsistute benches. If there were 11 subs for example we could easily put a few on the bench. (I’m sure this is planned somewhere, not sure it’s the premier league though, might be the champions league).
As someone else mentioned adding more spaces won't matter. We've seen times where we're 4 nil up with an academy player on the bench on not brought on, so why would it make a difference adding more

You could see how it would be easy to think that Griffiths numbers were mainly due to his physical dominance. Possibly the way Chelsea thought about Lukaku. But he can only beat what’s put in front of him and he’s certainly done that. I’d honestly be amazed if Levy let him go. It goes against everything he has has built the squad on. Finding a gem and hoping he turns out to be a worldy. No idea if it’s about pathway or money. If it’s pathway then he will be 22 when Kane is 30 which is almost perfect as a successor. If it’s money can it really be that much. Maybe he wants 30k and we’ve offered 15k. Whatever the numbers there can’t be a huge difference. Must surely be worth taking the gamble on him. De Bruyne Salah Lukaku have shown when you have a promising young player at your club you need to be 1000% sure before letting him go.

I cant see it being a money issue. Sancho was being offered £30k by City last year a record for a 17 year old. Why would anyone offer Griffiths that when he has only done it in the u18s league? he doesn't even play for his country. We also would not offer him £15k as BG said. I imagine he is likely leaving for chances. Regardless of when you think he should be ready, he will have his own plan in his head. He is in incredible form and seeing 17 year old strikers getting a chance in the Bundesliga. If things go well there he could be getting first team chances within a year. Have a couple of seasons there he will earn good wages. Does any better then England will come calling again and he maybe around 21/22 established in a top league. You seem to believe he will just trust Spurs' development plan for him, and even if he did stay and do what you say. Kane required extremely fortuitous circumstances to get his chance, there is zero guarantee he will get a chance even if he was good enough at 22. We still have players who are significantly better than Griffiths who have committed blindly to the club who are 21/22 and still haven't had a decent sniff of first team football.

To lead on from this I saw on his instagram story, he had screenshotted some twitter posts mentioning him being linked to RBL. So if, he were to leave it suggests he's having conversations with that club, due to the link with Paul Mitchell

But that’s mainly because we actually have a deeper squad than all those teams including city. We can virtually put out x2 international xi teams. City squad is actually tiny. Liverpool squad also pretty light. Arsenal squad is now awful. And Chelsea were struggling for numbers pre January. We virtually have international cover in every position. And most likely squad will just get stronger this summer. I think a lot of the holes in other top 6 squads will filled this summer especially city and Chelsea. But there’s no doubt Poch could have at least found bench places this season.

Not sure about this? How do you define deep. How can we have the best squad in the league, and one of the best managers and likely end up 4, with no trophy? Everyone agrees it is hard to improve our first team so that suggests we could improve the squad. Just because squad players are performing adequately, it doesn't mean academy players if given a chance could perform better than them. If they played really well they may end up being better than first teamers. If the manager thinks they are good enough he should play them ahead of other players. If he doesn't think they are better than other players he should sell them, and stop selling them dreams.
 
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IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Gomez had already played at least 20 odd games for Charlton in the Championship, so I'm not sure he counts as a youth being given a chance, not unless Alli does with us, which he doesn't. Also Solanke had spent a season playing in the Eredivisie so he wasn't an untested youth either.

Similarly I'd include Ampadu. But his point still stands

If it’s pathway it will be no easier at any other top 6 club. If it was me I’d give it till 19. Chances at top 6 clubs don’t grow on trees. He’s seen what’s happened to young English players that have broken through here. You never know what may happen, injury crisis etc. Surely has to be worth giving it 2 more years. Nobody has a right at 17 to expect 1st team football.

The other top 6 clubs give as many if not more chances to academy players than us. As you said in the previous post I replied to, if our squad is deeper and harder to break into surely that would suggest there is an easier pathway elsewhere
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I think he’d be playing U23 football regularly if he had committed to signing with us. As it is, we obviously see no point promoting him as he’s leaving. We’ve seen similar scenarios in the past plenty of times.

Hadn't thought of that. I just assumed he hasn't been playing u23s as Sterling and Harrison were needing games. I guess it depends on how long this whole scenario has been playing out. If we haven't been playing him in the u23s because of the contract situation then that really gives him no incentive to stay. He is banging in goals for u18s he will have plenty of offers, and we are arguing stifling his development by being petty. I don't feel we have the bargaining power here. If we really wanted to punish him, we could've prevented him playing u18 football. That would stop his bargaining position and give our other players minutes.

However, I'd like to think we wouldn't do that to a 17 year old hence him continuing to play despite the apparent standoff. Just thinking aloud tbh
 

bubble07

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Dec 27, 2004
22,959
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Maybe poch comments to play the kids in FA cup is to keep our best young players?

This Griffith kid Poch must have seen him play and he hasnt even had a look in. Dont even think he has trained with the first team

Saga with marcus Edwards has taught me lets not get fooled by the hype. Very few hyped up players make it. No point signing Griffith on big wages for a youth player if he turns out like neale fenn
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
2,512
8,342
Maybe poch comments to play the kids in FA cup is to keep our best young players?

This Griffith kid Poch must have seen him play and he hasnt even had a look in. Dont even think he has trained with the first team

Saga with marcus Edwards has taught me lets not get fooled by the hype. Very few hyped up players make it. No point signing Griffith on big wages for a youth player if he turns out like neale fenn

I like Griffiths and don't want him to go but we can't just have him as a part of the regular squad because he's just not ready. His movement, defensive work, his touch, his anticipation.etc all these things would make him struggle if he were to be thrown in now or soon. Ideally he'd give it a couple of years with us but if he feels he can get game time now in Germany fair play to him. The German league is not quite as kick and rush as ours can be so I'd be interested to see how he adapts to the greater subtlety required to play there. Its also important to remember there are more than just pitch pressures to deal with by leaving "home" i.e - Spurs. It could be he's fine, it could be it helps him mature, it could be that its all a bit too soon.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Maybe poch comments to play the kids in FA cup is to keep our best young players?

This Griffith kid Poch must have seen him play and he hasnt even had a look in. Dont even think he has trained with the first team

Saga with marcus Edwards has taught me lets not get fooled by the hype. Very few hyped up players make it. No point signing Griffith on big wages for a youth player if he turns out like neale fenn

just want to point out that a lot of those hyping griffiths probably haven't actually seen him play, they've just seen how many goals he's scored. most in here and other regular youth watchers still aren't really sure what to make of him. he's not comparable to the likes of kwp/onomah/edwards etc where there it was basically unanimous between anyone who had watched them as to how good they were.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I like Griffiths and don't want him to go but we can't just have him as a part of the regular squad because he's just not ready. His movement, defensive work, his touch, his anticipation.etc all these things would make him struggle if he were to be thrown in now or soon. Ideally he'd give it a couple of years with us but if he feels he can get game time now in Germany fair play to him. The German league is not quite as kick and rush as ours can be so I'd be interested to see how he adapts to the greater subtlety required to play there. Its also important to remember there are more than just pitch pressures to deal with by leaving "home" i.e - Spurs. It could be he's fine, it could be it helps him mature, it could be that its all a bit too soon.

I actually think his bullish style might be a surprise and catch people off guard in the Bundesliga, I don't know how long it would last though, but it could be advantageous. As you say though, adapting to a foreign country will be the big problem there
 

WindyCOYS

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Feb 24, 2016
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For me Griffiths isn't one of our most technically able Academy players, but I don't think he'd look out of place if he were to get five minutes at the end of a PL match, and I'd personally want us to be looking to do that in order to show him that there's progression there if he works hard enough.

He is physically able, quick, makes intelligent runs, and most importantly he has this confidence/swagger about him which IMO can make up for some technical flaws. He's nowhere near the finished article but with his goal record having only just (in the grand scheme) become a striker we'd be crazy to let him go. If giving him a bench place is one way to persuade him to sign up for another two years I'm all for it.
 

coy-spurs1882

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Aug 31, 2012
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For me Griffiths isn't one of our most technically able Academy players, but I don't think he'd look out of place if he were to get five minutes at the end of a PL match, and I'd personally want us to be looking to do that in order to show him that there's progression there if he works hard enough.

He is physically able, quick, makes intelligent runs, and most importantly he has this confidence/swagger about him which IMO can make up for some technical flaws. He's nowhere near the finished article but with his goal record having only just (in the grand scheme) become a striker we'd be crazy to let him go. If giving him a bench place is one way to persuade him to sign up for another two years I'm all for it.
poch won't give him the chance if he is not committed. edwards committed to the club by signing the contract but still couldn't get a chance
 
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