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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

SFCS

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2013
598
1,285
I disagree about Onomah's chances. But I think if I'm correct you're saying that the academy players need to be more patient and allow themselves to bed in more? Poch has been here 4 years and we've seen one academy player get integrated, if these players are all having to wait until they're 22, while also getting zero experience from loans, before they get a sniff of the first team, can you really wonder why these players might want to leave while they're 17/18 to go to a league known for giving young players chances, and not staying at a club that claims it.

Most of it was written trying to see Pochettino's side but yes, I do think young players need to be more realistic, and patient, if they want to make it here. You're absolutely right that moves to Germany provide a good alternative, and it's certainly an attractive one for young players.

If Onomah wanted to play the role he played at the U20 World Cup then he has to convince a manager to play him there. From what I saw of his time at Villa, Bruce tried him there and then pushed him up to no 10, or played him in a midfield 3. Frankly I think he was right, his best work was in the final third. He was excellent in a deeper role with the u20s but that's the u20s and not the level he wants to play at. He might have modeled his game on Dembele but even Dembele moved positions over the years, as we all know. Dembele didn't learn how drive the ball forward and beat players effortlessly in midfield where it was more risky, he learnt that as an attacking player, with a whole midfield and defence behind him. Losing the ball to defenders, not midfielders.

Alli's another good player to look at for comparison. Pochettino quickly moved him further forward and he was incredibly effective. Now he's developing other sides of his game and is well on his way to becoming a complete player. Although the obvious answer to that is that he's been given an awful lot more minutes.

I respect Onomah's decision to go out on loan to prove himself but with the hindsight of Dembele and Winks' injuries, he should have been the one to get moved from the right to centre mid as Sissoko frequently was. It's often unexpected breaks of luck(from the player's perspective) that leads to a player getting the chance that makes them. For Kane it was Soldado and Ade being god awful, as well as a deflected freekick against Villa. Winks, until the injuries, had Dembele's injuries to thank for dramatically increasing his game time. Bentaleb had a god awful manager that luckily believed in him. Mason had just enough preseason opportunities with a new manager, iirc thanks to players on extended World Cup breaks, and a shot against Forest that even great players usually stick in the stands. Further afield would TAA wouldn't be on the plane if it weren't for Clyne's injuries and Rashford made his name after a series of injuries to other forwards, including one on the day of a match.

It's not really luck so much as biding your time and waiting for the opportunities.
 

UncleFool

Well-Known Member
Jul 30, 2013
74
272
I do find it interesting that CCV seems to be held in such low regard amongst many Spurs supporters. He arguably had the best season among the players loaned to Championship teams, yet, everyone seems willing to write him off, while still expecting Onomah and Edwards to be future stars for Spurs.

That's a very fine point and, I must confess, I am one of those people. And I don't know why! My opinion, I think, is based around his performance at Anfield in the League Cup a couple of seasons ago. He looked a little heavy and slow. I've not seen him perform in the Championship but, unlike Onomah and Edwards, he's held down a regular first team spot. Fair play to CCV. And good luck to him!
 

DJS

A hoonter must hoont
Dec 9, 2006
31,261
21,760
Worrying to hear Bennetts could possibly be going to Germany?

Had a lot of potential as a left wing back plus could also have been converted like Rose to a traditional left back?

Like others have said in this thread I would like the likes of Sterling and Griffiths to be given more opportunities and of course Parrot up top rather than wasting money on strikers like Lllorente and Janssen.

Was crying out for KWP to be given a game most of this season and also Onomah should have been given opportunities in the cup in his proper deep-lying midfield position rather than a loan to Aston Villa who have again completely miss-used him.
 

werty

Well-Known Member
Aug 8, 2005
25,074
26,310
I do find it interesting that CCV seems to be held in such low regard amongst many Spurs supporters. He arguably had the best season among the players loaned to Championship teams, yet, everyone seems willing to write him off, while still expecting Onomah and Edwards to be future stars for Spurs.
Centre backs aren't sexy enough to stand out to the general population unless they are brilliant on the ball, in which case their actual defending is ignored. Usually if you see a CB in a highlight its when they are conceding, so that doesn't help matters. I also think people are more willing to give attacking players more chances because their mistakes or poor performances are less likely to result in us losing.
 

willcpt17

Active Member
Apr 7, 2018
88
127
Disappointed to see Bennetts go as he is a very talented
Worrying to hear Bennetts could possibly be going to Germany?

Had a lot of potential as a left wing back plus could also have been converted like Rose to a traditional left back?

Like others have said in this thread I would like the likes of Sterling and Griffiths to be given more opportunities and of course Parrot up top rather than wasting money on strikers like Lllorente and Janssen.

Was crying out for KWP to be given a game most of this season and also Onomah should have been given opportunities in the cup in his proper deep-lying midfield position rather than a loan to Aston Villa who have again completely miss-used him.
I agree, sad to see Bennetts go as he could have developed into a Rose-type LB/LWB for us. Maybe if he had been included in a few first team traiining sessions and given a spot on the bench in a match towrds the end of the season he would have felt like there was more of a chance for him to break through at some point? Great point on Sterling and Griffiths, lets use our youth players as squad players instead of overpaying for the likes of Llorente, Sissoke, Soldado, etc...

Hopefully Griffiths stays...He and Sterling should get ample opportunities to impress this summer in the iCC. Hope to see Parrott continue to develop over the next few seasons, he looks to be a special talent for us. I agree with many of you that he looks like a young Harry Kane. Hopefully we won't hype him up as much as Edwards, he is still young and we must be patient.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
Here's a crazy idea - why not get rid of all the homegrown requirements in squads?

As of right now, teams will buy up mediocre English players to fill bench spots, and rarely does the rule lead to youngsters being brought through. However, it also drives up the value of English players to ridiculous levels, which means they rarely, if ever, go abroad.

So why not remove those rules, and let English players start going abroad more often, where they'll get more chances?


Edit: It has occurred to me that I'm now the Ayn Rand of football. Damn it.

Not something I'd wish on anyone to be honest.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Hell, if I were a manager I would take the exact same approach. A player must prove himself on the trainung field deserving of a start. You dont get hired based on heresay or potential. You get the gig for showing you can deliver what the manager wants. If a youth player wasn't showing me they should start in their training sessions or showing me they are better than the competition why should i start them. If they have the mental fortitude they will apply themselves appropriately and treat every session like a chance.It's complete nonsense to suggest a player should be given a start because they have potential and are young. Thousands of young players with potential come through the youth ranks and a small percentage. Pochs is looking for mental application and he's the one calling the shots

and you think this approach is conducive to bringing players through? you want a young kid with no senior experience to be better than a quality first teamer before they get a chance, for you that's a realistic bar to set? do you think that all the players we've signed or are looking to sign came through under the same conditions? or did they show enough promise/potential as a young player that their club set out a pathway for them to reach that potential? if we go by your approach then realistically what is the point of any of these players even being here? you've set an almost unreachable hurdle for them to overcome, as a club you may as well close the academy(as some have already done) and divert those funds into signing players as it's surely a waste of resources when the chances of seeing any return on it is so slim.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,901
24,817
I generally enjoy this thread - it's one of my favourites on the whole board but the ongoing negativity from some posters around the kids getting chances is starting to get really old. I know you're upset and I know that Poch's reputation is perhaps no longer (if ever) deserved, you've made your point - again and again and again.

I admire your passion and I totally understand that some feel that if certain players were just given opportunities in their proper position then perhaps they could shine and save the club money on unnecessary squad fillers. I agree with you and think that KWP and Onomah in particular should have received more minutes.

However, Poch's primary function is to win football games, not bring through youth players - we are already going up against the oil baron's with our significantly smaller funds so I can understand why he is more risk averse than in previous jobs. Whilst I totally understand why people are frustrated, we keep overachieving with what we have and the need to do all of that AND bring through the youngsters seems a little greedy to me.

I think that other leagues have a greater disparity between the top teams and the bottom and so it is easier to blood some of the younger talent as the mistakes they make aren't so costly, but our recent games against Brighton and WBA (who got relegated) show that it is much more difficult to take chances of any sort here. Also we'd previously have used the FA and League cups but they've hardly been a stress free stroll either of late.

Sorry, not trying to upset anyone but the thread is being overshadowed (for me) by the constant complaining and whilst everyone else is having their vent I thought I'd have a go too! :ROFLMAO:
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,685
4,500
Disappointed to see Bennetts go as he is a very talented

I agree, sad to see Bennetts go as he could have developed into a Rose-type LB/LWB for us. Maybe if he had been included in a few first team traiining sessions and given a spot on the bench in a match towrds the end of the season he would have felt like there was more of a chance for him to break through at some point? Great point on Sterling and Griffiths, lets use our youth players as squad players instead of overpaying for the likes of Llorente, Sissoke, Soldado, etc...

Hopefully Griffiths stays...He and Sterling should get ample opportunities to impress this summer in the iCC. Hope to see Parrott continue to develop over the next few seasons, he looks to be a special talent for us. I agree with many of you that he looks like a young Harry Kane. Hopefully we won't hype him up as much as Edwards, he is still young and we must be patient.
Parrott looks a lot better than a young Harry Kane. Remember seeing Harry as a 19 yr old in a europa match on tv and he didn’t look like a premier lge player at all. But then I didn’t know how much drive and desire he had. He has made himself into a top striker . Talent means nothing without the drive to succeed
 

ClonedFromSandrosBeard

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2014
181
417
I generally enjoy this thread - it's one of my favourites on the whole board but the ongoing negativity from some posters around the kids getting chances is starting to get really old. I know you're upset and I know that Poch's reputation is perhaps no longer (if ever) deserved, you've made your point - again and again and again.

I admire your passion and I totally understand that some feel that if certain players were just given opportunities in their proper position then perhaps they could shine and save the club money on unnecessary squad fillers. I agree with you and think that KWP and Onomah in particular should have received more minutes.

However, Poch's primary function is to win football games, not bring through youth players - we are already going up against the oil baron's with our significantly smaller funds so I can understand why he is more risk averse than in previous jobs. Whilst I totally understand why people are frustrated, we keep overachieving with what we have and the need to do all of that AND bring through the youngsters seems a little greedy to me.

I think that other leagues have a greater disparity between the top teams and the bottom and so it is easier to blood some of the younger talent as the mistakes they make aren't so costly, but our recent games against Brighton and WBA (who got relegated) show that it is much more difficult to take chances of any sort here. Also we'd previously have used the FA and League cups but they've hardly been a stress free stroll either of late.

Sorry, not trying to upset anyone but the thread is being overshadowed (for me) by the constant complaining and whilst everyone else is having their vent I thought I'd have a go too! :ROFLMAO:

Agree that the points being made here are becoming a bit laboured but it's only because the club has set that expectation.

Remember last summer when Levy was saying Spurs won't join in in paying the silly money that was being thrown around? Or when Poch had a biography published espousing how good he was at bringing through youth players?

Less than a year later the club has promising youth players going overseas, and we don't care because all the talk is Spurs will be spending 150mill+ on shiny new players.

We can't say we're doing anything differently to the other clubs when we do the exact same ie. spend shitloads of money and ignore our academy.

I also don't buy the point about there being less of a gap in the PL compared to other leagues. Occasionally worse teams win; that's football.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Parrott looks a lot better than a young Harry Kane. Remember seeing Harry as a 19 yr old in a europa match on tv and he didn’t look like a premier lge player at all. But then I didn’t know how much drive and desire he had. He has made himself into a top striker . Talent means nothing without the drive to succeed
Kane looked great in youth team football. It was the step up to seniors which took time, mainly because of his body, it just looked soft and a bit doughy. Once he put the hours in, filled out and strengthened, everything came together.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
I generally enjoy this thread - it's one of my favourites on the whole board but the ongoing negativity from some posters around the kids getting chances is starting to get really old. I know you're upset and I know that Poch's reputation is perhaps no longer (if ever) deserved, you've made your point - again and again and again.

I admire your passion and I totally understand that some feel that if certain players were just given opportunities in their proper position then perhaps they could shine and save the club money on unnecessary squad fillers. I agree with you and think that KWP and Onomah in particular should have received more minutes.

However, Poch's primary function is to win football games, not bring through youth players - we are already going up against the oil baron's with our significantly smaller funds so I can understand why he is more risk averse than in previous jobs. Whilst I totally understand why people are frustrated, we keep overachieving with what we have and the need to do all of that AND bring through the youngsters seems a little greedy to me.

I think that other leagues have a greater disparity between the top teams and the bottom and so it is easier to blood some of the younger talent as the mistakes they make aren't so costly, but our recent games against Brighton and WBA (who got relegated) show that it is much more difficult to take chances of any sort here. Also we'd previously have used the FA and League cups but they've hardly been a stress free stroll either of late.

Sorry, not trying to upset anyone but the thread is being overshadowed (for me) by the constant complaining and whilst everyone else is having their vent I thought I'd have a go too! :ROFLMAO:

When the only youth news availabel is our players leaving what else are we meant to discuss?

I've posted players that have signed for next year, but academy players realising it's not worth their time staying here and believing they won't get a chance is quite big news no? I actually stopped posting anything about this and tried to just inform on results, to avoid constantly going on about it, as the same boring arguments come up. But when this is the youth news it's worth a discussion.

Also it's not completely negative a lot of people have been praising their determination and bravery for leaving, rather than moaning at them.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,315
I've posted players that have signed for next year, but academy players realising it's not worth their time staying here and believing they won't get a chance is quite big news no?
It's the constant narrative that's peddled, like you've done here...that the evil club is holding these world beating youngsters back, when it's much, much more likely that some of these players, who have been overhyped by a lot of posters on here, just aren't good enough.
There's two sides to every coin mate, and I can agree with @muppetman in that the negativity is getting really old.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
It's the constant narrative that's peddled, like you've done here...that the evil club is holding these world beating youngsters back, when it's much, much more likely that some of these players, who have been overhyped by a lot of posters on here, just aren't good enough.
There's two sides to every coin mate, and I can agree with @muppetman in that the negativity is getting really old.

But it's not negativity is it?
I am very pòsitive about our progress
including especially the use of our own
and bought in youngsters for Pochettinisation.
As the stakes become higher
and Mauricio has a reputation to maintain and build
the temptation to buy in ready-mades will grow.
(You know like experienced been there and done it and got the tee-shirters
like Sissoko and Llorente)
That went well
but fortunately we have old Dan Levy clutching the purse strings
so that just ain't gonna work.
Up-coming stars of the Academy will either save us tens of millions
or earn us tens of millions on sell on.
The negativity comes from those
continually running down our own products
like they did with one Harry Kane.
 

Gb160

Well done boys. Good process
Jun 20, 2012
23,646
93,315
But it's not negativity is it?
I am very pòsitive about our progress
including especially the use of our own
and bought in youngsters for Pochettinisation.
As the stakes become higher
and Mauricio has a reputation to maintain and build
the temptation to buy in ready-mades will grow.
(You know like experienced been there and done it and got the tee-shirters
like Sissoko and Llorente)
That went well
but fortunately we have old Dan Levy clutching the purse strings
so that just ain't gonna work.
Up-coming stars of the Academy will either save us tens of millions
or earn us tens of millions on sell on.
The negativity comes from those
continually running down our own products
like they did with one Harry Kane.

It's negativity in the respect that the blame is somehow put at the clubs door, but what if they're just not good enough Jimmy? They'll only earn us millions if they cut the mustard.

Saying they're not good enough is no more negative than you having a dig at Sissoko, it's just voicing an opinion.
 

Locotoro

Prince of Zamunda
Sep 2, 2004
9,328
13,926
and you think this approach is conducive to bringing players through? you want a young kid with no senior experience to be better than a quality first teamer before they get a chance, for you that's a realistic bar to set? do you think that all the players we've signed or are looking to sign came through under the same conditions? or did they show enough promise/potential as a young player that their club set out a pathway for them to reach that potential? if we go by your approach then realistically what is the point of any of these players even being here? you've set an almost unreachable hurdle for them to overcome, as a club you may as well close the academy(as some have already done) and divert those funds into signing players as it's surely a waste of resources when the chances of seeing any return on it is so slim.

I respectfully disagree.

It is setting a high bar but it gaurantees that you are getting the best out if those players that you have. You make it sound like hundreds of players are making their way to Pochs doorstep but that is simply not the case. If we can develop one player a season that would be more than most clubs do and the best way to do it is to say we are putting the best players into the first team regardless of age. The players who show the right mental application and ability.

And yes actually I do believe that those youth players should be asked to show they are better than other more senior players. KWP is showing potentially that he is better than Trippier and Aurier and I would put him in the first team. Winks, when fit, showed he's a better option than carrol and Mason and thats why they were sold and Winks promoted.

I respect your opinion but I'm of the belief that if you tell the youth players "this is the bar" you won't run off crying, every single youth player will try and challenge and that is good for us and good for them.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
It's negativity in the respect that the blame is somehow put at the clubs door, but what if they're just not good enough Jimmy? They'll only earn us millions if they cut the mustard.

Saying they're not good enough is no more negative than you having a dig at Sissoko, it's just voicing an opinion.

I didn't raise the negativity issue.
If they prove to be not good enough
then so be it.

I would certainly go the extra mile
for Kids that have come through our system
been raised the right way
with a positive view of the club.
or bought in like Dele at an impressionable age
And I expect them to walk the same walk.
It's our USP and long may it continue.

You forgot Llorente
 
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