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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
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Sorry, as someone who works with young people, yes you should understand their age and whatnot but that absolutely doesn't mean you should carry on and forget about it. Bad behavior is unacceptable and this needs to be instilled at that age before it becomes a problem when they are older. There is a difference in vanity, and pouting and all that and actually unprofessional and unacceptable behavior. Obviously, any reaction needs to be proportional and compassionate but certainly things like openly confronting coaches and all that kind of 'bad attitude' needs to be dealt with and thats not just ignoring it and getting on with it.

Similarly posts like Griffiths on twitter are not actually a massive deal but the club has to deal with it and make it clear that this kind of behavior is not acceptable. Not because its a problem for the club itself but because it will hurt him and possibly his career in the long term. To ignore such acts is a failure of a clubs duty to develop young players into model professionals.

Thankfully Griffiths has seemingly deleted the post and everyone can move on. Also his twitter persona, as a whole, doesn't appear particularly bad to me.
 
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IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
u14s are competing in the Citta de Cremona football tournament. I may have got some of that wrong. The 2nd in quick succession. Other clubs involved include Milan, Inter, Juventus, PSV, AZ Alkmaar, Porto, Atalanta and more. We play the first game tomorrow morning against Cremonese. There's a twitter attached that will provide updates and hopefully some streams but I doubt it

http://www.torneointernazionalecremona.it/ & https://www.facebook.com/torneointcremona/

Doing a bit of research I found out this same group also finished 3rd in the Ove Helgeson Trophy last August which CSKA won

http://www.ovehelgesentrophy.no/2017/result/team/13589237/matches
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
Sorry, as someone who works with young people, yes you should understand their age and whatnot but that absolutely doesn't mean you should carry on and forget about it. Bad behavior is unacceptable and this needs to be instilled at that age before it becomes a problem when they are older. There is a difference in vanity, and pouting and all that and actually unprofessional and unacceptable behavior. Obviously, any reaction needs to be proportional and compassionate but certainly things like openly confronting coaches and all that kind of 'bad attitude' needs to be dealt with and thats not just ignoring it and getting on with it.

Similarly posts like Griffiths on twitter are not actually a massive deal but the club has to deal with it and make it clear that this kind of behavior is not acceptable. Not because its a problem for the club itself but because it will hurt him and possibly his career in the long term. To ignore such acts is a failure of a clubs duty to develop young players into model professionals.

Thankfully Griffiths has seemingly deleted the post and everyone can move on. Also his twitter persona, as a whole, doesn't appear particularly bad to me.

I don't think anyone disagrees with. I said that I don't agree with him retweeting these stories nor seeking attention by stoking the fire, I just said I'm not going to make comments like 'We should get rid' 'he seems like prick' 'I don't care if he leaves based off this'. As @beats1 said we live in an age of social media where their bad decisions and immaturity are there for all to seen, and these things can't be removed and can haunt them forever. I'm sure working with young people, like me, you can work with someone and tell them not to do something on social media, as it can get them in trouble only for them to do it regardless and get exploited and taken advantage of as a result. They will make mistakes it's what happens when they are young. A lot of the time, the consequences of making mistakes on social media are punishment themselves, and other mistakes or errors in judgement you of course have a word with them.

I never said you should carry on and forget about it when people do bad things. The coaches know this as well and I'm assuming you you mistook from my anecdote that players with 'bad attitudes' aren't dealt with accordingly. That isn't true, and that is my point earlier, coaches in academies know how to deal with bad behaviour they spend so much time around them that the are crucial to moulding that behaviour. If they can deal with them at such an impulsive stage, first team managers and coaches, should be able to deal with them when they're even more mature.

I know of academy players to have been suspended, parents to have complained due to academy staff being strict, and other stories of players acting up and it being dealt with. However, at the end of the day discipline goes so far, and if an academy player wants to pout and show off, then so be it, but the coaches will obviously be having a word with him. It doesn't mean he should be written off, no doubt when he is 24, like most people he will probably look back at himself and cringe, people mature at different rates. Wes Brown used to come from a rough estate and be involved with gangs, until Fergie made the decision to move him away IIRC to help focus him and brought him through. Imagine what he may have been like with social media, when he was 17. They're young, they're developing deal with it and move on.

The amount of academy players that post pictures in the football shirts of other London clubs, and I think, why on earth would you do, that you will get stick for it in the future, but these things happen. Granted the older lot are a lot smarter in that regard and even they know not to do that
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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Why does who he’s trying to impress matter?

I don’t care if he’s trying to impress his mum, gran or dog retweeting something about yourself like that is dickhead behaviour, especially with all his kind of like teasing that he’s leaving posts before.

Yes maybe he’s just a dickhead because he’s young but very few other youth players pull similar stunts so I don’t really buy that, cringey videos are fine and not really the same as what Reo has done, and I’d much rather we promote them then someone who loves themselves as much as Griffiths clearly does.

Because, he doesn't have his social media for me or you he has it for himself. He wants to do what he wants to do, and isn't thinking about how annoyed Streetspur is getting behind is computer. He probably is seeing interest from the biggest club in the world and thinking I want everyone to see this, and impress them. Heck, he may want to move, and is trying to advertise himself to other clubs.

As I said, he is obviously being an idiot but he is maturing, and coaches will be having a word with him. He will look back and likely cringe. He could be a completely different person personality wise in a year or two, getting so wound up about what a 17/18 year old is doing on social media is a bit pointless to me.
 

kd2000

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
1,490
4,999
Having worked with kids for 20 years i can say if what griffiths does is all i have to deal with i would be chuffed. Kids make mistakes, we all made mistakes.
You learn more from mistakes than from any teachings.

I, you, we make mistakes in our jobs and we have experience, qualifications on our side. This kid has probably got a much larger peer group than any of us can get our head around.
Did we 'play up' to our friends?, of course
Did we have parents etc advising us not to? Yes
Did we still do it? Yep

He's still a kid, being a pro footballer doesnt change that
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I don't think anyone disagrees with. I said that I don't agree with him retweeting these stories nor seeking attention by stoking the fire, I just said I'm not going to make comments like 'We should get rid' 'he seems like prick' 'I don't care if he leaves based off this'. As @beats1 said we live in an age of social media where their bad decisions and immaturity are there for all to seen, and these things can't be removed and can haunt them forever. I'm sure working with young people, like me, you can work with someone and tell them not to do something on social media, as it can get them in trouble only for them to do it regardless and get exploited and taken advantage of as a result. They will make mistakes it's what happens when they are young. A lot of the time, the consequences of making mistakes on social media are punishment themselves, and other mistakes or errors in judgement you of course have a word with them.

I never said you should carry on and forget about it when people do bad things. The coaches know this as well and I'm assuming you you mistook from my anecdote that players with 'bad attitudes' aren't dealt with accordingly. That isn't true, and that is my point earlier, coaches in academies know how to deal with bad behaviour they spend so much time around them that the are crucial to moulding that behaviour. If they can deal with them at such an impulsive stage, first team managers and coaches, should be able to deal with them when they're even more mature.

I know of academy players to have been suspended, parents to have complained due to academy staff being strict, and other stories of players acting up and it being dealt with. However, at the end of the day discipline goes so far, and if an academy player wants to pout and show off, then so be it, but the coaches will obviously be having a word with him. It doesn't mean he should be written off, no doubt when he is 24, like most people he will probably look back at himself and cringe, people mature at different rates. Wes Brown used to come from a rough estate and be involved with gangs, until Fergie made the decision to move him away IIRC to help focus him and brought him through. Imagine what he may have been like with social media, when he was 17. They're young, they're developing deal with it and move on.

The amount of academy players that post pictures in the football shirts of other London clubs, and I think, why on earth would you do, that you will get stick for it in the future, but these things happen. Granted the older lot are a lot smarter in that regard and even they know not to do that
Mate it was a general comment rather than a particular response to you, which is why I posted it not as a reply, and I essentially agree with you. My point was simply what Griffiths did is not acceptable, and requires addressing but also we shouldn't take it out of the context that this is a young player and a minor incident.

What I was saying was not so much about discipline, more that at that age the players have to get to a stage where they understand what is expected of them, and should not be given a free pass. Sometimes they way of dealing with it is an arm round the shoulder rather than discipline but the point is it is an active thing that requires a response. My point was also very much about the fact we do have to accept errors of judgment at that age.

The pouting and showing off doesn't bother me at all, its not unprofessional its just what young people do, its what a lot of people my age do. I don't think its a bad thing, just a cultural one. The problem with Griffiths' post was that it was unprofessional to his employers and of course it needs to be addressed. No need for an overreaction. But I do think with the money involved there is a real worry that clubs would just give these teenagers a free pass in fear of scaring them off.

At that age they need to learn that there age does not excuse what they do, they are not in school anymore and its a point that they need to take responsibility of those actions. The same rules apply to them as they do with the first team. How to promote professionalism and get this across in compassionate sensitive way must be very challenging for coaching staff, particularly with all the money involved, but its a really important thing.
 
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faze_coys

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2010
3,138
4,796
One of our own Onomah. He wants to convince that he deserves a chance. Been injured a lot at Villa, but they love him. Bruce has already opened conversations. We are very reluctant, and Poch wants to work with him in pre-season. Club would like to extend a further 2 years. Depends on a lot of things.

Here is a joke. Just heard from one of my chav connects. Apparently we asked in return for Toby, about Ruben Loftus-Cheek Cheek lol. Don’t read anything serious into that, just how clubs engage sometimes.
There is a lot I can say but won’t! The kid has played most of the season carrying injury after injury.


Some good news about Onomah
 

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,051
6,342
Has anyone watched last chance U on Netflix? I know it’s America and American football, but it’s a great watch and I’m sure youth coaching must make you want to pull your hair out. It’s amazing when you google what happens after they are given an amazing opportunity to get a chance to get to a university where they can get a shot at the NFL they then all go on to fuck it up.

It’s also worth noting (dealing with young ppl) how something the shit they have to deal with at home is horrific and you don’t know. When there down, lazy, moody it’s not sometimes what you think.

Sometimes I think we only churn out small, nice lads not ready for the premiere league, Reo looks like he has size and confidence, and let’s behonest we are shit at buying strikers, so let’s hope he can be awesome fir spurs.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
Mate it was a general comment rather than a particular response to you, which is why I posted it not as a reply, and I essentially agree with you. My point was simply what Griffiths did is not acceptable, and requires addressing but also we shouldn't take it out of the context that this is a young player and a minor incident.

What I was saying was not so much about discipline, more that at that age the players have to get to a stage where they understand what is expected of them, and should not be given a free pass. Sometimes they way of dealing with it is an arm round the shoulder rather than discipline but the point is it is an active thing that requires a response. My point was also very much about the fact we do have to accept errors of judgment at that age.

The pouting and showing off doesn't bother me at all, its not unprofessional its just what young people do, its what a lot of people my age do. I don't think its a bad thing, just a cultural one. The problem with Griffiths' post was that it was unprofessional to his employers and of course it needs to be addressed. No need for an overreaction. But I do think with the money involved there is a real worry that clubs would just give these teenagers a free pass in fear of scaring them off.

At that age they need to learn that there age does not excuse what they do, they are not in school anymore and its a point that they need to take responsibility of those actions. The same rules apply to them as they do with the first team. How to promote professionalism and get this across in compassionate sensitive way must be very challenging for coaching staff, particularly with all the money involved, but its a really important thing.

My bad. I thought it was relevant to what I said so responded.

Yes agree, I think we are saying the same thing. I disagree with what he is doing, and think he is an idiot, and needs to be pulled up, punished whatever they see fit, and he definitely needs to be acting more professionally, and definitely not give him a free pass because he is young. All I'm saying is, that because he is young, he will make the mistakes, let the coaches and whoever discipline him accordingly.

My issue is when fans say comments like leave the club, good riddance, we shouldn't tolerate this here let him leave. It's imo an equally immature reaction to immature behaviour. If we kicked out every player that acted like a cock, we wouldn't have any players. Secondly, my point about age, is that he will mature, and it shouldn't remain a stick to beat him with if he comes through. In a years time he may realise he was acting like a moron, but if by some miracle he came through here, I can imagine him having a short length of rope with the fans, because of how he behaved when he was a teen.

We signed grown adults who have openly called a person a faggot and assaulted someone, we had a player that wore a Chelsea shirt in a photo, and also we signed a player who when he joined he admitted that he was using us as a stepping stone to Chelsea and people still gave them chances. That is a lot worse, than a teenager retweeting a story about himself on twitter when he is barely known. The 'this isn't acceptable' and 'shows us what type of character he is' reactions seem a bit over the top to me, especially taking into account his age.

Also I should add, I doubt our coaches would be afraid of scaring them off. When players are struggling for games enough and they're showing real quality, I don't think they care about losing a player with what they might see as having an attitude problem.
 
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IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
It’s also worth noting (dealing with young ppl) how something the shit they have to deal with at home is horrific and you don’t know. When there down, lazy, moody it’s not sometimes what you think.

Sometimes I think we only churn out small, nice lads not ready for the premiere league, Reo looks like he has size and confidence, and let’s behonest we are shit at buying strikers, so let’s hope he can be awesome fir spurs.

Exactly. I don't know Griffiths background and wouldn't dare speculate, but I know there are plenty out there who have had involvement in the care system, some that are surrounded by gangs, look at Zaha's brother, heck look at John Terry's family. No one has any idea what is going on behind the scenes and how it could lead them to act.
 

guru

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Mar 20, 2018
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I had written my previous post before reading this, but 1) if the club are treating Griffiths like he is Edwards that is madness. I highly doubt that. 2) what makes you think we gave into Edwards at all, he was being offered a lot more money from other clubs than we were offering him. Just because someone doesn't want to sign straight away as they want to know that they will get chances, just like KWP did it doesn't mean we're giving into them or their knobs. In the end Edwards signed for less money, for a club he has grown up with and showed incredible trust and faith in our manager, and it has still worked against him, both to the fans and his career. He might as well just effed off and taken the money. He has already remained true when the big clubs came in
Edwards signed
I had written my previous post before reading this, but 1) if the club are treating Griffiths like he is Edwards that is madness. I highly doubt that. 2) what makes you think we gave into Edwards at all, he was being offered a lot more money from other clubs than we were offering him. Just because someone doesn't want to sign straight away as they want to know that they will get chances, just like KWP did it doesn't mean we're giving into them or their knobs. In the end Edwards signed for less money, for a club he has grown up with and showed incredible trust and faith in our manager, and it has still worked against him, both to the fans and his career. He might as well just effed off and taken the money. He has already remained true when the big clubs came in
mate I know from a very reliable source that we did everything in our power to keep Edwards , he was promised things, that we as a club were not ready to give him, but basically forced to, or loose him . We GAVE IN . Where did it get him ? It proves he was not ready . Do you honestly think he was ready last year for first team football whether it was physically or mentally , he was not ready . Now you are seeing a similar situation with Griffiths , physically he may be ready but mentally he is not . Before you say he is , just going by all his social media rubbish shows he is immature . The minute he does not get picked or does not go his way , he’s off to a club who’s promising him this and that . This is not the first time tottenham have had problems with him , surely you can see that ? I have no doubt that we will give in to him and his agent . Rightly or wrongly time will tell .
Both these players are talented but what you need to realise is it’s so easy to get carried away in the glamorous life of a footballer . That is when you need good advice .
I hope both go on to prove me wrong , but as it stands unless they change their mentality it’s going to be bloody hard !
 

Hercules

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Jul 23, 2014
5,694
156,565
Edwards signed

mate I know from a very reliable source that we did everything in our power to keep Edwards , he was promised things, that we as a club were not ready to give him, but basically forced to, or loose him . We GAVE IN . Where did it get him ? It proves he was not ready . Do you honestly think he was ready last year for first team football whether it was physically or mentally , he was not ready . Now you are seeing a similar situation with Griffiths , physically he may be ready but mentally he is not . Before you say he is , just going by all his social media rubbish shows he is immature . The minute he does not get picked or does not go his way , he’s off to a club who’s promising him this and that . This is not the first time tottenham have had problems with him , surely you can see that ? I have no doubt that we will give in to him and his agent . Rightly or wrongly time will tell .
Both these players are talented but what you need to realise is it’s so easy to get carried away in the glamorous life of a footballer . That is when you need good advice .
I hope both go on to prove me wrong , but as it stands unless they change their mentality it’s going to be bloody hard !
Where is the evidence Edwards has left us?
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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mate I know from a very reliable source that we did everything in our power to keep Edwards , he was promised things, that we as a club were not ready to give him, but basically forced to, or loose him . We GAVE IN . Where did it get him ? It proves he was not ready . Do you honestly think he was ready last year for first team football whether it was physically or mentally , he was not ready .

I believe Edwards is/was ready for first team football in the form of League Cup and FA Cup minutes here and there. The only doubs I had over him were his size, but the best place to try it out, is on the field, and he has grown up smaller than everyone he has ever played with so I think he would be able to adapt to people bigger than him. He has the confidence and the ability to play first team football imho. The only thing that held him back imo was his fitness

Regarding the we gave in bit, I don't know what that means exactly and I don't expect you to tell me, but I am guessing that would be either wages or guaranteeing first team football. I doubt he is on massive wages,not anything City would be prepared to pay I imagine, and he isn't playing first team football regardless of his perceived attitude, so clearly what he believes he was guaranteed hasn't come to fruition anyway, so I can't see how we gave in and he seems to have been suckered in to sign.

Griffiths , physically he may be ready but mentally he is not . Before you say he is , just going by all his social media rubbish shows he is immature . The minute he does not get picked or does not go his way , he’s off to a club who’s promising him this and that . This is not the first time tottenham have had problems with him , surely you can see that ? I have no doubt that we will give in to him and his agent . Rightly or wrongly time will tell .
Both these players are talented but what you need to realise is it’s so easy to get carried away in the glamorous life of a footballer . That is when you need good advice .
I hope both go on to prove me wrong , but as it stands unless they change their mentality it’s going to be bloody hard !

I don't think I have ever said Griffiths is ready for first team football. I may have said at some point he can't do worse than Llorente, but I think that was more aimed at Sterling. The closest I've come is maybe saying he should go on preseason, but I've quite regularly said, that I don't know where I stand with him, and I don't think he is anywhere near as close to Edwards wrt talent.

I did say that if I were him I would leave, as he would likely get the chances he is seeking abroad a lot quicker than he would here, and he could have the potential to really bang, as he has decent ability and size.However, Edwards is in the top 5 academy players I've seen, if I really think about it I don't think Griffiths would make my top 20, I don't think they're comparable. I don't think we should be bowing to any demands he has made, especially if we have no real intent to play him in the future. I selfishly want him to stay to see how he progresses after last season, but if he left I wouldn't be devastated as I don't quite know how good he is yet. I would be more upset if Hinds left tbh.

If he is causing this many problems then we should just let him leave. I also don't quite understand the concept of keeping them just in case they blow. Without 'going there' again, we aren't even able to give our most talented players proper chances and our best players came through very very fortuitously. Why keep a disruptive 18 year old and give him a high wage (interpreted from you saying 'we will give into him'), which could set a dodgy precedent, when the player has a slim to none chance of coming through here? Doesn't make sense here, and just sounds like something Chelsea would do. Keep these players on and stockpile, just in case.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
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So if Griffiths is in squad this weekend surely that points to him staying. I doubt we’d be wasting time on him if he was off.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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13,758
So if Griffiths is in squad this weekend surely that points to him staying. I doubt we’d be wasting time on him if he was off.

As BG pointed out, Tracey is also in the squad, and he surely has to be released. If we go off the basis I don't know how much that squad tells us. What is strange is Edwards is even absent from that so I wonder what is happening with him
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
As BG pointed out, Tracey is also in the squad, and he surely has to be released. If we go off the basis I don't know how much that squad tells us. What is strange is Edwards is even absent from that so I wonder what is happening with him

Is Tracey under contract? Guess there’s always case of show window. Reo deleted the tweet by the way.
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,685
4,500
Having worked with kids for 20 years i can say if what griffiths does is all i have to deal with i would be chuffed. Kids make mistakes, we all made mistakes.
You learn more from mistakes than from any teachings.

I, you, we make mistakes in our jobs and we have experience, qualifications on our side. This kid has probably got a much larger peer group than any of us can get our head around.
Did we 'play up' to our friends?, of course
Did we have parents etc advising us not to? Yes
Did we still do it? Yep

He's still a kid, being a pro footballer doesnt change that
Don’t forget he is at work. Anyone read Gab Marcotti book detailing the differences between Italian and English football. Interesting book and at the end he says the major difference is that in Italy being a pro footballer is a job. In England it’s a game. Although things have improved over the last few years it’s pretty obvious that a lot of talented boys spend most of their time messing about and then wonder where it all went wrong. Lads like Winks and KWP stand out a mile in that they are obviously determined to do as well as they can . Good luck to them they deserve it
 

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
Has anyone watched last chance U on Netflix? I know it’s America and American football, but it’s a great watch and I’m sure youth coaching must make you want to pull your hair out. It’s amazing when you google what happens after they are given an amazing opportunity to get a chance to get to a university where they can get a shot at the NFL they then all go on to fuck it up.

It’s also worth noting (dealing with young ppl) how something the shit they have to deal with at home is horrific and you don’t know. When there down, lazy, moody it’s not sometimes what you think.

Sometimes I think we only churn out small, nice lads not ready for the premiere league, Reo looks like he has size and confidence, and let’s behonest we are shit at buying strikers, so let’s hope he can be awesome fir spurs.
Last Chance U is an incredible show.
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,293
3,603
Some good news about Onomah

Very good news, might explain why in some games he was strolling about.
Whereas others, especially at the end of the season he wasn't and looked like a completely different player.

The running around version was a clear upgrade on Sissoko but the walking about one wasn't.

I wasn't sure whether the penny had just dropped with him by the end of the season but if he was nursing injuries it would make sense.
 
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