The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

[ClonedFromSandrosBeard]

Getting tired of the Edwards conversation to be honest. Been clear since he went on loan he's not doing enough to take his chances.

I personally think he needs some obscurity for a while to figure this out for himself. Maybe with the club moving him on he'll finally get it.

I would say it's a shame but really it's a shame only if he actually wants to be a professional footballer. If he doesn't then good luck to him.

 

[beats1]

I genuinely hope that the info about edwards is true and not just the club trying to push out info that only those with bad attitudes dont make it

Correct. I look at someone like Harry Winks, and from everything I’ve seen of him in interviews and online, if he wasn’t a footballer, and just walked in to a job interview for a position I had, I’d be very likely to hire him. Whatever walk of life you’re in, you want enthusiastic, passionate people around you. I’d imagine in football it’s even more important.

No offence, but winks was lucky, he had been advised by pretty much everyone he should go and find another club, if we didnt have an injury crisis at CM and Sissoko playing poor, he wouldn't be talked about now

 

[spurs9]

winks was lucky, he had been advised by pretty much everyone he should go and find another club, if we didnt have an injury crisis at CM and Sissoko playing poor, he wouldn't be talked about now

Where did you hear the part in bold?

We didn't have an injury crisis in CM that season. Dier missed 1 game through injury all season, Dembele missed 4 through suspension and 3 through injury and Wanyama missed 2 games. At the time of Wink's full PL debut, none of those players were injured.

In regards to Sissoko, he only played 1 game in CM in the PL that season and that was in our 2-0 win against Man City.

 

[mill]

Where did you hear the part in bold?

We didn't have an injury crisis in CM that season. Dier missed 1 game through injury all season, Dembele missed 4 through suspension and 3 through injury and Wanyama missed 2 games. At the time of Wink's full PL debut, none of those players were injured.

In regards to Sissoko, he only played 1 game in CM in the PL that season and that was in our 2-0 win against Man City.

Sissoko played rm that game in a 4141

 

[WindyCOYS]

I think the thing to remember with Winks is that he was training with the first team at 16- identified by AVB and fast-tracked to some degree, but also played regular Under-21 games. I guess the player you'd most compare his development with is TOB.

 

[spurs9]

Sissoko played rm that game in a 4141

So zero games at CM then.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Winks was given an opportunity and took it. Same as Rashford although his was down to injury. Edwards isn’t good enough even if they gave him an opportunity. The king is dead ...long live the king(aka Troy Parrot).

 

[danielneeds]

I genuinely hope that the info about edwards is true and not just the club trying to push out info that only those with bad attitudes dont make it

No offence, but winks was lucky, he had been advised by pretty much everyone he should go and find another club, if we didnt have an injury crisis at CM and Sissoko playing poor, he wouldn't be talked about now

As others have said, that’s just wrong. Of course there’s always an element of luck in a young player breaking through, but McDermott was always banging on about Winks as a a player and person.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Dunno if anyone has read the Pochettino book, but this Edwards situation ties in neatly with the manager's general approach to football - talent isn't enough, he wants the man before the player. The absolute best thing you can say about Edwards is that he's not yet proved himself to be a reliable professional, a less charitable angle would be to say that he's proved that he isn't. So maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff knew best all along, and the righteous anger of people who watched him murder youth opposition through sheer talent alone was misplaced.

 

[Spurzinho]

Dunno if anyone has read the Pochettino book, but this Edwards situation ties in neatly with the manager's general approach to football - talent isn't enough, he wants the man before the player. The absolute best thing you can say about Edwards is that he's not yet proved himself to be a reliable professional, a less charitable angle would be to say that he's proved that he isn't. So maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff knew best all along, and the righteous anger of people who watched him murder youth opposition through sheer talent alone was misplaced.

As I've said before, in my time watching youth football (since roughly 01/02) I've seen some incredibly talented kids not least Adel Taarabt who was every bit as good as Edwards. I don't know if you can still find the youtube compilations of Disco playing for Lens' youth team. He was simply breathtaking. Was his extraordinary talent enough on its own? Not even close. He wouldn't push himself. He wouldn't apply himself. He wouldn't listen. He didn't appreciate what he had. He was selfish. He thought he knew best. He wouldn't train right. He refused to conduct himself in a professional manner. He showed no respect for his coaches, the clubs he played for, his team mates or himself. I'm not saying Edwards is as bad as that, he might be, but I don't know one way or the other. the point is that Edwards has not had the focus, dedication or discipline to make the most of his talent so far. That's why he is where he is.

Anyone that thinks he's suddenly going to leave and go AC Milan, Juve, Barca or Bayern and become a star is deluding themselves. The demands on players is the same over there as it is here. Maybe, maybe once you prove yourself to be CR9 or Neymar there is some slack but not before. Work first. Then get treated like a god.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Winks was given an opportunity and took it. Same as Rashford although his was down to injury. Edwards isn’t good enough even if they gave him an opportunity. The king is dead ...long live the king(aka Troy Parrot).

you don't know that and winks was two years older than edwards is now, who knows what can happen in that time. there was also a story about how winks had broke down in tears after begging poch/the club to let him go out on loan so it was hardly plain sailing, he had to wait a long time as well as needing that bit of luck before he was eventually given an opportunity. kwp has been the model professional but here he is at 21 with barely any football under his belt and 3rd choice in his position, is it really surprising that edwards and other may look at that and think what's the point of being here?

Dunno if anyone has read the Pochettino book, but this Edwards situation ties in neatly with the manager's general approach to football - talent isn't enough, he wants the man before the player. The absolute best thing you can say about Edwards is that he's not yet proved himself to be a reliable professional, a less charitable angle would be to say that he's proved that he isn't. So maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff knew best all along, and the righteous anger of people who watched him murder youth opposition through sheer talent alone was misplaced.

yes, well, we're not privy to the person behind the player so for the most part we can only go by what we see on the pitch, just as is the case with the first team but it doesn't stop fans from airing their opinions there. so either we refrain from giving any opinion on a player, which would kind of make this thread redundant, or we caveat every view with "but we don't know what they're like off the pitch". did the coaching staff(i.e. pochettino) get it right when he publicly compared edwards to messi and then subsequently dropped him like a stone before criticising his character in his book? is that really the best way to go about helping to develop an 18 year old kid? of course a lot of this is down to marcus himself but i don't think the coaching staff and those connected to him are totally blameless in this either.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Dunno if anyone has read the Pochettino book, but this Edwards situation ties in neatly with the manager's general approach to football - talent isn't enough, he wants the man before the player. The absolute best thing you can say about Edwards is that he's not yet proved himself to be a reliable professional, a less charitable angle would be to say that he's proved that he isn't. So maybe, just maybe, the coaching staff knew best all along, and the righteous anger of people who watched him murder youth opposition through sheer talent alone was misplaced.

I don't think it's anything like as black and white as that. Lets try to remember that this kid has been dedicating his life to becoming a pro footballer for the last ten years or so, and making all the sacrifices that goes with that, sacrifices which most of us have never come close to having to make. Basically sacrificing being a teenager.

Ive read the stuff about Rose last night, and people calling for understanding of the emotional turmoil he's been through. But those same people are often very quick to write off teenagers at the club as being "lazy, upity, egomaniacs" just because they don't behave like polite robots who should be grateful for being treated like commodities some of the time.

 

[Lilbaz]

I don't think it's anything like as black and white as that. Lets try to remember that this kid has been dedicating his life to becoming a pro footballer for the last ten years or so, and making all the sacrifices that goes with that, sacrifices which most of us have never come close to having to make. Basically sacrificing being a teenager.

Ive read the stuff about Rose last night, and people calling for understanding of the emotional turmoil he's been through. But those same people are often very quick to write off teenagers at the club as being "lazy, upity, egomaniacs" just because they don't behave like polite robots who should be grateful for being treated like commodities some of the time.

Any of us would give our left nut to make those sacrifices.

 

[JRSG]

Any of us would give our left nut to make those sacrifices.

Would you give your nut to have had the same upbringing as Edwards?

 

[Lilbaz]

Would you give your nut to have had the same upbringing as Edwards?

What was wrong with his upbringing? As far as i know he comes from a good family greek/cypriot mum and his dad goes to all his games.
That wasn't what i was talking about anyway.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

As I've said before, in my time watching youth football (since roughly 01/02) I've seen some incredibly talented kids not least Adel Taarabt who was every bit as good as Edwards. I don't know if you can still find the youtube compilations of Disco playing for Lens' youth team. He was simply breathtaking. Was his extraordinary talent enough on its own? Not even close. He wouldn't push himself. He wouldn't apply himself. He wouldn't listen. He didn't appreciate what he had. He was selfish. He thought he knew best. He wouldn't train right. He refused to conduct himself in a professional manner. He showed no respect for his coaches, the clubs he played for, his team mates or himself. I'm not saying Edwards is as bad as that, he might be, but I don't know one way or the other. the point is that Edwards has not had the focus, dedication or discipline to make the most of his talent so far. That's why he is where he is.

Anyone that thinks he's suddenly going to leave and go AC Milan, Juve, Barca or Bayern and become a star is deluding themselves. The demands on players is the same over there as it is here. Maybe, maybe once you prove yourself to be CR9 or Neymar there is some slack but not before. Work first. Then get treated like a god.

For all Edwards alleged flaws he's always demonstrated a level of footballing intelligence and decision making that Taarabt didn't. That's (at least one) big difference between these two.

We keep getting these odd snippets about Edwards, he can be a bit chippy, he's been late a couple of times at Norwich. But Ive never once watched him play and thought "what a mardy tw*t" or "what an idiot" as we did with Taarabt.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

What was wrong with his upbringing? As far as i know he comes from a good family greek/cypriot mum and his dad goes to all his games.
That wasn't what i was talking about anyway.

Not for here, but it's definitely not been smooth sailing.

 

[Disconosebleed]

I don't think it's anything like as black and white as that. Lets try to remember that this kid has been dedicating his life to becoming a pro footballer for the last ten years or so, and making all the sacrifices that goes with that, sacrifices which most of us have never come close to having to make. Basically sacrificing being a teenager.

Ive read the stuff about Rose last night, and people calling for understanding of the emotional turmoil he's been through. But those same people are often very quick to write off teenagers at the club as being "lazy, upity, egomaniacs" just because they don't behave like polite robots who should be grateful for being treated like commodities some of the time.

I think you're spot on about Rose and I hope that his story is given the airtime it needs because an elite level footballer - and ESPECIALLY a black footballer, with mental health issues in the black male demographic becoming a bigger problem every year - opening up about problems with depression would be a massive thing for a huge number of young people who look up to them and may be experiencing similar issues without understanding why, or how to deal with them.

You're also right about the ease with which people dismiss players based on very little info. I hope it didn't come across like I was doing that, as the point I was making was that, from what we know, there's every reason to believe the decision not to play Edwards was the right one. I imagine in retrospect Pochettino regrets the Mini-Messi comments (in fact I think he might even mention misgivings about saying it in the book?), but it seems like they have tried plenty of different approaches with nothing sticking.

You're right about him missing out on being a teenager, and the fact that these kids are just normal people with unusual talents shouldn't be forgotten; however we are talking about a player with aspirations of being an elite footballer, and those are the sacrifices you need to make to reach that level - as Spurzinho said, Taarabt is a great example. With the right attitude, he could have played for anyone, he was that good. The fact that, despite being completely lacking in the professionalism required to be a top footballer, he is still playing at a high level, is testament to his qualities...but he achieved nothing like he should have done, because he didn't make those sacrifices that are the compromise you need make if you want to reach the top. There are very few players who reach the top without that application and, as good as he is, Edwards won't be any different in that regard. If it clicks, he could be great. If it doesn't, he'll achieve nothing like what he's capable of.

 

[ClonedFromSandrosBeard]

Any of us would give our left nut to make those sacrifices.

Don't know about you but my interests really diversified when I was a teenager. Imagine being locked in as not just a professional footballer (from the age of... what... 14-15 when Edwards was name dropped by Sherwood in an interview?) but your country's next hope.

I acknowledge I could be wrong; he could want to be a footballer and not want to do the work. All I'm saying is we should all leave him alone now, it looks like he's done at Spurs.

 

[Disconosebleed]

We keep getting these odd snippets about Edwards, he can be a bit chippy, he's been late a couple of times at Norwich. But Ive never once watched him play and thought "what a mardy tw*t" or "what an idiot" as we did with Taarabt.

True, but then neither have we seen the unarguable brilliance that Taarabt showed he was capable of. I remember one of Taarabt's first appearances for Spurs, a narrow defeat to Chelsea where he came on with about 20 minutes to go (he was thrown in because we were playing early Saturday having been away to Sevilla on the Thursday). What surprised me wasn't how he good he was - though he was excellent - but that the entire team immediately wanted to get him on the ball, everything went through him. Every Tottenham player recognised that Taarabt had the quality needed to unlock the opposition defence. And that was a first team game, against local rivals. As promising as Edwards was on his debut in a League Cup game that was already won, it wasn't anything like that. And it's a lot more difficult to break into the Tottenham team now - I can't imagine Taarabt would have had any more joy than Edwards currently is.