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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2017/2018

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
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There are lots of these type of young players who have great talent but don’t come through. Andy Cole’s son Devante was at City...think he is at fleetwood now. Nick Barmby’s son Jack was at Man U god knows where he is now. Lots of players in Sunday leagues wil have the talent to be pros but they lack the other bits you need. It must be a shock when they go from being best player in the school to not really underst@nding what they are supposed to do in a proper game. Rory Delap, ex Stoke City played as an attacking midfielder at school and looked very good. He ended up as a big full back with a long throw.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Where did you hear the part in bold?

We didn't have an injury crisis in CM that season. Dier missed 1 game through injury all season, Dembele missed 4 through suspension and 3 through injury and Wanyama missed 2 games. At the time of Wink's full PL debut, none of those players were injured.

In regards to Sissoko, he only played 1 game in CM in the PL that season and that was in our 2-0 win against Man City.
His family and people around him at the time where questioning his choice

We didnt have a CM crisis, i just checked but we had a lack of midfielders that week,

Dier couldnt play CM as he was needed at RCB with Toby out with a hamstring injury as CCV made the bench.

Alli twisted his knee

Son was tired as he just returned from asia from international duty and poch back then didnt use to start him as he wouldn't have made it in time for training

Sissoko wasnt available most likely due to injury, Lamela was out injured and so was nkoudou. Our starting 11 had been a mishmash of players the weeks prior and it finally concluded with a first 11 including Janssen and Winks whilst a bench of Vorm, CCV, Trippier, Wimmer, Onomah, Alli and Son. Who except the last two who were rushed back and Trippier, the rest weren't fancied that season and neither was Janssen and winks till that point
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I think you're spot on about Rose and I hope that his story is given the airtime it needs because an elite level footballer - and ESPECIALLY a black footballer, with mental health issues in the black male demographic becoming a bigger problem every year - opening up about problems with depression would be a massive thing for a huge number of young people who look up to them and may be experiencing similar issues without understanding why, or how to deal with them.

You're also right about the ease with which people dismiss players based on very little info. I hope it didn't come across like I was doing that, as the point I was making was that, from what we know, there's every reason to believe the decision not to play Edwards was the right one. I imagine in retrospect Pochettino regrets the Mini-Messi comments (in fact I think he might even mention misgivings about saying it in the book?), but it seems like they have tried plenty of different approaches with nothing sticking.

You're right about him missing out on being a teenager, and the fact that these kids are just normal people with unusual talents shouldn't be forgotten; however we are talking about a player with aspirations of being an elite footballer, and those are the sacrifices you need to make to reach that level - as Spurzinho said, Taarabt is a great example. With the right attitude, he could have played for anyone, he was that good. The fact that, despite being completely lacking in the professionalism required to be a top footballer, he is still playing at a high level, is testament to his qualities...but he achieved nothing like he should have done, because he didn't make those sacrifices that are the compromise you need make if you want to reach the top. There are very few players who reach the top without that application and, as good as he is, Edwards won't be any different in that regard. If it clicks, he could be great. If it doesn't, he'll achieve nothing like what he's capable of.


I don't think Taarabt ever had the mental faculties (inc footballing maturity) to have a great career. I don't know about Taarabt's attitude etc but his talent was almost all in his boots and not his brains, and that was always his biggest problem.

I don't feel that with Edwards, he's an intelligent little footballer who plays with his feet and his head up. His decision making with a football at 16 was better than Taarabt's is now possibly.

You say the decision not play Edwards was the right one, but I completely disagree. He showed in that 15 minutes he did get - two years ago nearly - that he was not overawed and was ready to contribute something. I think the mistake was putting his development into reverse. I would imagine if you'd waited 10 years for a tiny chance, then you get a taste and do OK, then you get told your being moved backwards, it’s demoralising.

Then you factor in that these are just teenagers, with all the problems teenagers have, hormones raging, home life, watching their mates enjoy life, watching other mates in the game make progress and all the rewards that go with it etc.

I understand the need for discipline and working hard, but all we ever hear is the little things about these players, we never hear about the mistakes the coaches and staff make with these kids. I'm know the kids make mistakes - but they are kids, I expect them to - but I don't think the coaching and integration policies are always right either.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I don't think Taarabt ever had the mental faculties (inc footballing maturity) to have a great career. I don't know about Taarabt's attitude etc but his talent was almost all in his boots and not his brains, and that was always his biggest problem.

I don't feel that with Edwards, he's an intelligent little footballer who plays with his feet and his head up. His decision making with a football at 16 was better than Taarabt's is now possibly.

You say the decision not play Edwards was the right one, but I completely disagree. He showed in that 15 minutes he did get - two years ago nearly - that he was not overawed and was ready to contribute something. I think the mistake was putting his development into reverse. I would imagine if you'd waited 10 years for a tiny chance, then you get a taste and do OK, then you get told your being moved backwards, it’s demoralising.

Then you factor in that these are just teenagers, with all the problems teenagers have, hormones raging, home life, watching their mates enjoy life, watching other mates in the game make progress and all the rewards that go with it etc.

I understand the need for discipline and working hard, but all we ever hear is the little things about these players, we never hear about the mistakes the coaches and staff make with these kids. I'm know the kids make mistakes - but they are kids, I expect them to - but I don't think the coaching and integration policies are always right either.

It's about setting standards. If a youth player cannot be disciplined, arrive on time and the like, then you risk spreading that kind of behaviour/attitude if you reward the footballer.

Poch's watershed moment was the uprising by the young players against the likes of Adebayor, Kaboul etc because the latter were taking the piss. I don't think he or we want that attitude creeping back in, and while I don't think Edwards is either that bad nor able to realise what he needs to do to succeed, cutting him slack because he has done well in youth football and showed a flash or two in the latter stages of a drubbing of Gillingham? What example would that set? If you have great potential (and it is potential right now) then you don't need to be on time, you don't need to follow the rules everyone else does, you don't need to be part of the team, you can just be you and do your own thing. That is the antithesis of what Poch is all about.

And what Poch is all about is what has got us where we are today.
 

ralphs bald spot

Well-Known Member
Jul 14, 2015
2,777
5,177
All the talk about Marcus is just so typical of why English football struggles to bring players through - the lad is 19 who doesn't make mistakes at that age. He has loads of time to come through it's not a one size fits all . All the nonsense spouted about attitude is just that,. The boy from the times I've seen him needs to find ways to get more involved in matches but he has talent that others don't have and that's for the coaches to work out. I am old enough to remember similar conversations about Hoddle not being able to defend or having a tendency to drop out of games, though I thought we had kind of moved on from that.

He may or may not go on to be a good player but I am not sure that loads of people who I doubt have seen him play live making ill conceived judgements helps even though it might make them feel better.
 

razzmaster

Well-Known Member
Jun 21, 2008
2,311
13,051
It's about setting standards. If a youth player cannot be disciplined, arrive on time and the like, then you risk spreading that kind of behaviour/attitude if you reward the footballer.

Poch's watershed moment was the uprising by the young players against the likes of Adebayor, Kaboul etc because the latter were taking the piss. I don't think he or we want that attitude creeping back in, and while I don't think Edwards is either that bad nor able to realise what he needs to do to succeed, cutting him slack because he has done well in youth football and showed a flash or two in the latter stages of a drubbing of Gillingham? What example would that set? If you have great potential (and it is potential right now) then you don't need to be on time, you don't need to follow the rules everyone else does, you don't need to be part of the team, you can just be you and do your own thing. That is the antithesis of what Poch is all about.

And what Poch is all about is what has got us where we are today.

When Grealish was the same age as Edwards he was far more of a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour. Villa stuck by him and he seems to have matured. It seems that we won't do that but will spend a large chunk of money on somebody with a very similar profile. Surely if we can see that young players can change then why can't Edwards?
 

WindyCOYS

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
479
1,588
As I've said before, in my time watching youth football (since roughly 01/02) I've seen some incredibly talented kids not least Adel Taarabt who was every bit as good as Edwards. I don't know if you can still find the youtube compilations of Disco playing for Lens' youth team. He was simply breathtaking. Was his extraordinary talent enough on its own? Not even close. He wouldn't push himself. He wouldn't apply himself. He wouldn't listen. He didn't appreciate what he had. He was selfish. He thought he knew best. He wouldn't train right. He refused to conduct himself in a professional manner. He showed no respect for his coaches, the clubs he played for, his team mates or himself. I'm not saying Edwards is as bad as that, he might be, but I don't know one way or the other. the point is that Edwards has not had the focus, dedication or discipline to make the most of his talent so far. That's why he is where he is.

Anyone that thinks he's suddenly going to leave and go AC Milan, Juve, Barca or Bayern and become a star is deluding themselves. The demands on players is the same over there as it is here. Maybe, maybe once you prove yourself to be CR9 or Neymar there is some slack but not before. Work first. Then get treated like a god.

Taarabt may have had more tricks than Edwards but that was about it IMO. Edwards the superior player for me.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
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20,779
When Grealish was the same age as Edwards he was far more of a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour. Villa stuck by him and he seems to have matured. It seems that we won't do that but will spend a large chunk of money on somebody with a very similar profile. Surely if we can see that young players can change then why can't Edwards?

I agree in principle
But not all delinquents are the same.
Nor are all managers and their regimes.
Mauricio's tough love will clearly work with some
Dele for example and not with others.
Edwards by the sound of it.
Talent is only half the story.
It wins them more time
but not necessarily the gold watch.
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,873
15,942
When Grealish was the same age as Edwards he was far more of a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour. Villa stuck by him and he seems to have matured. It seems that we won't do that but will spend a large chunk of money on somebody with a very similar profile. Surely if we can see that young players can change then why can't Edwards?

By the sounds of it we've constantly stuck by him and aren't exactly pushing him out the door...
 

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
11,201
43,789
Official confirmation of what was already known:

PLAYER UPDATE
Posted on 8 June 2018 - 09:00
The Club can confirm the departures of Development Squad players Ryan Loft, Christian Maghoma, Luke O’Reilly, Joe Pritchard and Nick Tsaroulla following the conclusion of their contracts.
Second Year Academy scholar Matthew Lock has also been released.
 

GetSpurredOn

Well-Known Member
Jun 18, 2006
5,022
8,922
Wasn't there some thought that Brown may have been at risk too, seems to have survived.
Would the academy players like Griffiths, and Hinds who were also thought to be on their way out, since there's no announcement about them, assume they're staying on.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
i'm fine with brown staying, not that i see him one day playing for us or even at a high level but he's not a player who i see on the team sheet and think "urgh", we don't have many options at lb now either so it's not like he's blocking anyone else from coming through. it's funny because a year ago i'd have said tsaroulla was our best lb prospect and now he's been released(perhaps not due to footballing reasons) and bennetts has gone too so we're now short in an area which was previously a position of strength.

looks like tracey is staying though, if that's the case i just hope it's out on loan somewhere.
 

Danners9

Available on a Free Transfer
Mar 30, 2004
13,998
20,756
Christian Maghoma was linked with FC Twente in Holland recently. They were relegated from the Eredivisie this season.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
i'm fine with brown staying, not that i see him one day playing for us or even at a high level but he's not a player who i see on the team sheet and think "urgh", we don't have many options at lb now either so it's not like he's blocking anyone else from coming through. it's funny because a year ago i'd have said tsaroulla was our best lb prospect and now he's been released(perhaps not due to footballing reasons) and bennetts has gone too so we're now short in an area which was previously a position of strength.

looks like tracey is staying though, if that's the case i just hope it's out on loan somewhere.


I can only assume Tracey still has some time left on a contract ?
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,512
8,342
Taarabt may have had more tricks than Edwards but that was about it IMO. Edwards the superior player for me.

Some people have got the wrong end of the stick. I'm not comparing the two stylistically. I'm saying as a raw talent Taarabt was technically superb. I'd also say Oduwa had gobsmacking talent. What neither had was the dedication to develop their games beyond that.

There's no doubt in my mind that at his best Taarabt was a lot more than tricks and flicks. His problem was that he was bloody lazy and thought that tricks and flicks could substitute for actual effort.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225


seems unlikely given he has two years left on his deal. hopefully he has a better time of it next season though as last year was effectively a wasted one for him.
 

Jake1882

Member
Nov 6, 2017
23
116
Still would like to see Shashoua get a MLS loan. The league fits his silky attacking style and is a good testing ground for him mentally to go abroad for a year.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
When Grealish was the same age as Edwards he was far more of a problem in terms of attitude and behaviour. Villa stuck by him and he seems to have matured. It seems that we won't do that but will spend a large chunk of money on somebody with a very similar profile. Surely if we can see that young players can change then why can't Edwards?

I know Grealish was involved in being out on the town a few times, which I doubt Poch would feel was very professionally, but was he turning up to training late as well? If so, then very similar setup (although Grealish had made more a impact).
 
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