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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
But Dutch football is regressing on the whole the League is poor - there are some decent players and on the whole we have done well over there but its still an easier option for a kid than trying to make it in England

But it (usually) gets a foot in the door much earlier than English football - if there is indeed chances available at all. There's a good chance in Holland they will be getting first team minutes whilst here they'd have to put up with endless limbo of U23 football and some random loans. Go somewhere, even if it seems to be a step down, where you know you'll get a chance and then its up to the player. We know what the market is like after that, it doesn't take much for bigger clubs (with too much money to spend) to come calling the minute someone shows ability.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
We must have about 25 U23 players and 16 U18 players as well as our academy set up.......do people honestly believe that we're not going to bleed some of these? Only a tiny fraction ever make the grade, and losing one good player only really gives a little more space and time for others to try and shine. Of all the youth players we have rued losing over the years, have many ever really shone elsewhere?

it's hard to have that belief when you look at the likes of kwp, onomah and edwards, they're among the best we've ever had come through the system and none of them are really anywhere close to being fully-fledged first teamers. forson isn't just one player either, he's the 4th international(or he soon will be in all likelihood after the u15 summer camps) that we've lost over the past two years and whilst the majority of youth internationals don't go on to become senior internationals, the majority of senior internationals were regular youth internationals - of the current england squad i think only pope, maguire and vardy didn't play for england at youth level. it will catch up with us at some point and we're the only "big" club seeing this number of players leave, most probably because whilst we can offer great coaching and facilities we don't offer enough money to compensate for the lack of a first team pathway.
 

mancman

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2006
363
688
People are surprised to see players leaving but I would say why stay?

Can anyone give me a reason, we have great facilities but other than that I dont see much reason to stay imho

The problem is what is the point or the mission statement of our academy?

Its a convoluted mess.

We arent preparing players for the first team.
We arent imo developing players for the league, its normally players who have shorter deals who we arent too bothered then go out to the lower leagues.
We arent imo even making players the best they can be, there have been so many players who have stagnated in the past 3 seasons and Im talking about the lesser known players in the U18's and U21's. We are talking about players who start training full time and for some reason havent improved a great deal like Maghoma.

The one thing that people should realise that the coaching staff has changed several times and it seems to had an effect imo
The point of our Academy? Well Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Jake Livermore, Steve Caulker, Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason, Tom Carroll, Alex Pritchard, well I won't go on. At the moment we have Walker-Peters, Carter-Vickers & Onomah. Also we have great potential in the guise of Oliver Skipp, Brooklyn Lyons-Foster and Troy Parrott to name but 3. It should be remembered that first team player production can change from year to year in terms of quality and opportunity. Kane alone is worth £150m +.
 

Anuth

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2008
745
2,346
Also on Asante's ig story, we can see Pierre Nagler, 16 years old Austrian striker/AMC with our training kit
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Its all a bit reactionary - a 14 year old leaves does it matter not really. I am honestly surprised that anyone has any knowledge of the kids at this age you certainly can't watch at the training ground until they become youth players. Kids at that age come and go the turnover at that age is huge

The boy who went to Holland that seems such a backward step - the Dutch League is a poor league and he seems to have tried to take an easy option not a good sign imo

The boy Bennett's I have seen him a bit and he is a little ability but for me is never going to make it here .He just doesn't have enough to his game imo

As for the youngsters not improving that is youth football it changes so much, boys have spurts and spells and its not always the lads who catch the eye initially who breakthrough for all manner of reasons

We have seen a few successes of late, Winks has broken through Walker Peters is around the first team and Carter Vickers has had decent loans amongst a few others. That's from one intake and what was a very good youth team

Coaches changing, who knows what suits one doesn't suit another but the good players will continue to succeed that is the nature of football. Plus players have to be able to play under different coaches the important thing at the Academy had been the retention of Mcdermott to oversee the whole thing
TBH it isn't reactionary, losing a 14 year old hasnt changed my feelings at all, tbh I couldnt care less

The fact is the academy isn't doing a good job and unlike the top teams we seem content with this. We were far ahead of a lot of teams and we seem to have fallen behind due to being content with our first team success

When we were shit there was a lot of effort put in the academy but now I dont see the philosophy as prevalent during matches

If anything I think McDermott has taken on too much responsibility and needs another guy next to him
The point of our Academy? Well Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Jake Livermore, Steve Caulker, Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason, Tom Carroll, Alex Pritchard, well I won't go on. At the moment we have Walker-Peters, Carter-Vickers & Onomah. Also we have great potential in the guise of Oliver Skipp, Brooklyn Lyons-Foster and Troy Parrott to name but 3. It should be remembered that first team player production can change from year to year in terms of quality and opportunity. Kane alone is worth £150m +.
I dont see the point of this list or telling me that Kane is worth £150m, you do know I have been following the academy closely since 2008.

The academy that produced those players isn't the same as the academy producing the players now. In fact that list you mentioned never had any good facilities and came through the team at chigwell not our flash new facilities now and under different coaches

We arent talking about a bad year, we have seen a steady downturn since Inglethorpe, Ramsey and etc. left
 
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EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
7,958
29,657
https://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/2018/july/late-goal-sees-off-brentford-in-friendly/

With changes made throughout the second period, our central midfield area had a youthful energy about it towards the end with Tashan Oakley-Boothe, Luke Amos, George Marsh and Oliver Skipp all deployed, while Nkoudou frequently got the better of Brentford’s right-back thanks to a blistering turn of pace. Kyle Walker-Peters also made inroads down the right side.

Safe bet that these guy and Georgiou will fly out with the team tomorrow. Bummed out that Edwards isn't featuring in these pre-season games.
 

Anuth

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2008
745
2,346
Someone asked Nagler on his ig about signing with us which he replies " not yet but nearly"
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
Bummed out that Edwards isn't featuring in these pre-season games.

i just don't get what we're doing with him. if we're excluding him as some kind of punishment then who does that benefit exactly? no one. the only way it makes much sense to me is if he's just being kept out of the way ahead of a move, permanent or not
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
No mention of Edwards in either pre season game so far. Doubt he’s going to states which doesn’t really look great considering half our squad aren’t going. On a side note is there any hope for Georgiou at all ? Still hanging around and sounded like he he had a good game today.
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,685
4,500
academies cannot produce first team players to order. Sometimes they come in batches and then dry up for no apparent reason. How many proper first team players have Barcelona produced since the Messi..Iniesta..Pique..Busquets generation. Same with United after class of 92. It was a lot easier to play Tom Carroll when we were around sixth than it would be now when we are regular top 4.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
But Dutch football is regressing on the whole the League is poor - there are some decent players and on the whole we have done well over there but its still an easier option for a kid than trying to make it in England

Why is Dutch football regressing? Last year Ajax got further in the Europa than we’ve ever managed.

And the point is, surely, that playing Dutch top flight football is going to develop and them more than playing u23 football or “training with the first team football” or “sitting on the bench and getting 20 minutes a season football” can at this stage of their evolution.

Where would you rank the Croatian league? Because that league’s young products have managed to knock England out of the WC and outplay the champions in the final.

Very dangerous to generalise about the quality of leagues, just based on their ability to purchase superstars. The Dutch league continues to produce great players, just not all Dutch ones.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
academies cannot produce first team players to order. Sometimes they come in batches and then dry up for no apparent reason. How many proper first team players have Barcelona produced since the Messi..Iniesta..Pique..Busquets generation. Same with United after class of 92. It was a lot easier to play Tom Carroll when we were around sixth than it would be now when we are regular top 4.
See this doesnt answer the concerns I mentioned at all, I'm not questioning that we should produce more first team players
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
The point of our Academy? Well Harry Kane, Harry Winks, Jake Livermore, Steve Caulker, Andros Townsend, Ryan Mason, Tom Carroll, Alex Pritchard, well I won't go on. At the moment we have Walker-Peters, Carter-Vickers & Onomah. Also we have great potential in the guise of Oliver Skipp, Brooklyn Lyons-Foster and Troy Parrott to name but 3. It should be remembered that first team player production can change from year to year in terms of quality and opportunity. Kane alone is worth £150m +.

Of all the players you have mentioned only 1 has come through under this current manager, despite the current lot being more talented than the older lot. You don't need to name the talent we have available, like Chelsea, I agree the academy coaching is top notch and doing it's job upto the u23 level. It's what happens when they leave the u18s which is causing the problem, no loans and no progression to the first team.


That's not to say the club haven't made mistakes too, but if tonnes of talented kids think they will all go to Germany and be guaranteed to play, they are very much mistaken.
Agree, I don't think anyone expects them all to come through but even taking into account the cultural shift etc they stand a considerably better chance of coming through in Germany than here. They quite literally have nothing to lose, as the chnaces here are so slim, that not making it there will mean they are in exactly the same situaiton.

We must have about 25 U23 players and 16 U18 players as well as our academy set up.......do people honestly believe that we're not going to bleed some of these? Only a tiny fraction ever make the grade, and losing one good player only really gives a little more space and time for others to try and shine. Of all the youth players we have rued losing over the years, have many ever really shone elsewhere?
We lose academy players to other clubs all the time, I can make a list of players that will never have even been mentioned on these forums, that have swapped clubs, but it's not worth noting as they're fairly unremarkable. The ones that are being mentioned are massive talents, who feel that staying here will not be of any benefit to them. That's what the concern is. What you're saying is if we lost Onomah it's OK as it will allow Joe Pritchard a chance to shine. There are not even in the same league. Annoyingly though we could lose Onomah and it wouldn't have made a slight bit of difference in the end.

Seems a bit odd and very pre-emptive as some of these lads are years off first team football wherever they go at 14/15.

But they probably think leaving earlier allows them to set up roots in a new place earlier and it might give them a better chance in the future, having done all of the adapting. Surely the better question is, once the club has got them to a very high level, as I say our academy and other English academies are producing better quality than other countries, why on earth would they hang around any longer. What can we offer them?

But Dutch football is regressing on the whole the League is poor - there are some decent players and on the whole we have done well over there but its still an easier option for a kid than trying to make it in England

Well that's the point either way. It's an easier league to come through in, if you're talented player. It's really a no brainer, look at Mount v Kluivert. Kluivert has got a move to Roma, Mount is going to Derby, as he is stuck at a big club and still not deemed good enough for that club despite outperforming Kluivert last season. If you come through a Dutch club and do well, you know a top European team will come and stick you in their first team. If you come through a PL club and do well it means nothing.

I don't even know why it is considered being impatient. We hear fans all the time say things like, if we bring through one per season that is great, even though we are producing even better players ever before. That target never seems to change, and appears to be in most people's eyes the ideal scenario that is still never achieved. So if you are in an academy with 5 other players equally as talented as you, having seen incredibly highly rated players across the academy and international youth football, get blocked by players like Grealish for 40m why stay. They know a worse player at a weaker club stands a better chance of becoming a pro, than a top player at a top club.

Also I get the problem. People say our first team is improving so they need to be even better so on and so forth. If that argument is true, and the playesr we are producing are being deemed as not good enough by the manager and the fans, whether I agree with them or not, why on earth would you stay as a 15 year old. Just due to faith or belief. Ignoring our own really talented players, Sancho would not have got a chance at City. And while some people disagree, even Kane our 150m player would have been deemed 'not good enough' had we been at the level we are now when he first really got his chance. He would not have been given a run out in the CL. So when we know these players, are only scraping chances what hope does anyone else have? No one seems to be offering a reason as to why these kids should stay as we are blinded by club loyalty, and assume something must be wrong with them if they want to leave or don't get chance. Parents and agents finally seem to be realising it.

Ultimately most fans do not see the potential talent in the academy and how it can improve the first team, and also wouldn't want to take the 'risks' in developing them, so no one really loses out. The fans won't lose out, as the acaemy players weren't good enough anyway, so I don't really see any change happening any time soon, as there is no pressure on the manager to use them. Though it does raise the quesiton as some ask, what is the point in the academy when one might come through every 3 seasons.

If we're not going to use the players we need to at least maximise the development of them so we can make money via sales to improve the first team, and that might give an incentive for them to stay if they know they can get good loans.
 

kd2000

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2012
1,490
4,999
Genuine question. If onomah, ccv, edwards and kwp werent with us would they be established prem players by now?
 

coyspurs18

Mistakes were made
Jul 4, 2013
2,598
7,075
Do you remember the no. I missed the first half.

Also Haysman seemed to play well and Mathurin continues to look dangerous
I don’t remember the number I was doing housework at the time. When I looked the ball was coming to the Spurs player off a deflection (I think) he ran onto it and hit it from about 15 out. It may have been #18 as he was playing in that general area.
 
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