The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

[yanno]

On June 13, @Hercules wrote (in the context of Villa wanting Josh as part of the Grealish deal):

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Onomah is a no-go! That is from the horses mouth! I know certain things may be out the players hands, but he is not for it. And as I said before, he wants to make a go of it here. And we owe him that.
http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/jack-grealish.132973/page-86#post-5916382
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If Josh making a go of it at Spurs consists of a week of pre-season training and then being excluded from our US tour, then I'm angry at the people in charge, both for Josh and for the message it sends to the rest of our Academy players.

I can only hope we learn that Josh is injured and staying behind for treatment.

EDIT: there is speculation, no media source, that Josh might be going on loan to Palace as part of the Zaha deal. This is about the only option that would be palatable to me, as he would be playing PL football.

 

[Spurzinho]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Josh has some injury issues that need to be carefully managed if he wants to avoid surgery. I would guess that his omission is more to do with that than with him being ostracised.

Edwards is not going for very well established reasons. He signed a new deal on the understanding that (a) we would give him his chance (b) if, and only if, he bucked his ideas up. Things haven't gone to plan on (b), so he's not getting (a). Ergo, he's not going. At this stage another loan wouldn't be in anyone's interests and I think he'll either see his deal out and leave or we'll try and find him a new club.

If Marcus leaves and proves us wrong I'll be very, very surprised. The things that leaked out about his time at Norwich are not the behaviour or attitude of a top player but a wasted talent. He had a great opportunity to prove everyone wrong and he fecked it up totally.

Some people don't want to hear this, those people are wrong.

 

[coys200]

Onomah has been absolutely fucked over by the club imo. Poor bloke

You mean given 40 1st team appearances and a season long loan at a championship club where he failed to make any significant impression. However talented he may be he’s had ample opportunity and just hasn’t stepped up.

 

[yanno]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Josh has some injury issues that need to be carefully managed if he wants to avoid surgery. I would guess that his omission is more to do with that than with him being ostracised.

Interesting. Thanks.

But the suggestion was that Josh was carrying an injury throughout the second half of last season. If the injury is still sufficiently debilitating that he cannot even continue pre-season training in the US, playing 45 minutes of friendly games, then surely there comes a time when surgery has to take place.

And the ideal time for that would have been at the end of last season, not at the beginning of, or part way into, the new one.

 

[Blake Griffin]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Josh has some injury issues that need to be carefully managed if he wants to avoid surgery. I would guess that his omission is more to do with that than with him being ostracised.

Edwards is not going for very well established reasons. He signed a new deal on the understanding that (a) we would give him his chance (b) if, and only if, he bucked his ideas up. Things haven't gone to plan on (b), so he's not getting (a). Ergo, he's not going. At this stage another loan wouldn't be in anyone's interests and I think he'll either see his deal out and leave or we'll try and find him a new club.

If Marcus leaves and proves us wrong I'll be very, very surprised. The things that leaked out about his time at Norwich are not the behaviour or attitude of a top player but a wasted talent. He had a great opportunity to prove everyone wrong and he fecked it up totally.

Some people don't want to hear this, those people are wrong.

you may end up being proven right but i still think 19 is too young to be making such definitive statements on. here are some excerpts from jack grealish's wiki page:

In April 2015, Grealish was warned by Aston Villa manager Tim Sherwood after The Sun published images showing him allegedly inhaling nitrous oxide for recreational purposes. Sherwood said that "We can't condone that behaviour. He is now in a responsible position as a professional footballer, he's got to make sure it won't happen again, he's assured me it won't. But, as I said about Raheem last week, he's a young man, he was even younger a year earlier when the picture was taken."

In November, he chose to stay in North West England and go clubbing after Villa's 4–0 loss to Everton. New manager Rémi Garde punished him for this decision by making Grealish train with the under-21 team, and stated that "You have to behave as a professional and it was not the case this time for Jack".

In September 2016, Aston Villa opened an internal disciplinary investigation after reports that Grealish was at a party at a Birmingham hotel which had to be shut down by the police in the early morning. In response, owner Tony Xia wrote on Twitter that Grealish had to focus on and off the pitch, and associate with the right people. In October, Grealish was suspended for three matches after accepting a charge of violent conduct following a stamp on Conor Coady in Villa's 1–1 draw with Wolverhampton Wanderers.

grealish spent most of his teenage years getting wasted and defying authority but it's only taken him a little over half a season of championship football for people to forget all about that, sometimes kids grow up and whilst edwards' reported behaviour has been less than stellar, it hasn't quite been to that level. i suspect a lot of it is borne out of frustration and discouragement at a lack of involvement, no doubt he expected it to be a lot easier given how he was used to being the best amongst his peers but i get the feeling that if he was playing football a lot of those issues would go away.

it now seems inevitable that he'll be moving on though so i guess we'll have to see whether he reaches his potential elsewhere. meanwhile, we can see if anthony georgiou or shilow tracey have what it takes instead.

 

[Luka Van der Bale]

I think we should wait and see with Onomah lads. It’s very, very likely he’s either in rehab with Winks and not in full training yet, or we’ve got a loan lined up to be announced in the next few days. There’s been no ‘fucking over’ here. I’m sure we’ll hear more soon.

 

[Westmorlandspur]

Don’t recall Onomah in the training photos

 

[Blake Griffin]

Don’t recall Onomah in the training photos

he was doing gym work - https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photo...l&page=2&phrase=tottenham hotspur&sort=newest (about halfway down, not sure why i can't link to the actual images)

he's wearing the academy training kit though so seemingly not viewed by poch as a first team member.

 

[yanno]

he was doing gym work - https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/tottenham-hotspur?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=tottenham hotspur&sort=newest (about halfway down, not sure why i can't link to the actual images)

he's wearing the academy training kit though so seemingly not viewed by poch as a first team member.

Good sleuthing.

Plus if you look at the positional make-up of the pre-season tour squad, it's short in CM:

Wanyama is the only senior CM in the squad. Plus Sissoko if you count him as a viable CM option, which I don't.

Poch has selected four young CMs in Amos, TOB, Skipp and Marsh, which suggests we're sorely lacking options at the moment.

Our two best home grown CMs, Winks and Onomah, are nowhere to be seen. And if both are still suffering from last season's injuries, that's far from great.

 

[coys200]

Eyoma is a player that doesn’t get much hype. Yet has 28 age group caps and can honestly say I’ve never seen him have a bad game. Just really steady and solid. Be surprised if he doesn’t make it in PL at some level.

 

[danielneeds]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Josh has some injury issues that need to be carefully managed if he wants to avoid surgery. I would guess that his omission is more to do with that than with him being ostracised.

Edwards is not going for very well established reasons. He signed a new deal on the understanding that (a) we would give him his chance (b) if, and only if, he bucked his ideas up. Things haven't gone to plan on (b), so he's not getting (a). Ergo, he's not going. At this stage another loan wouldn't be in anyone's interests and I think he'll either see his deal out and leave or we'll try and find him a new club.

If Marcus leaves and proves us wrong I'll be very, very surprised. The things that leaked out about his time at Norwich are not the behaviour or attitude of a top player but a wasted talent. He had a great opportunity to prove everyone wrong and he fecked it up totally.

Some people don't want to hear this, those people are wrong.

This is it. There are tonnes of players in the lower leagues or non-league with better ability than some established PL players, but it's all about professionalism and the mental side of the game which ultimately results in where those players end up.

 

[spursfan77]

he was doing gym work - https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/photos/tottenham-hotspur?family=editorial&page=2&phrase=tottenham hotspur&sort=newest (about halfway down, not sure why i can't link to the actual images)

he's wearing the academy training kit though so seemingly not viewed by poch as a first team member.

What a way to demoralise a player if that’s true!

 

[Hengy1]

What a way to demoralise a player if that’s true!

So does CCV.

KWP has the first team kit though

 

[Blake Griffin]

Eyoma is a player that doesn’t get much hype. Yet has 28 age group caps and can honestly say I’ve never seen him have a bad game. Just really steady and solid. Be surprised if he doesn’t make it in PL at some level.

mostly because he's been playing rb for the past couple of years. he has potential at cb but his height could hold him back as not many managers are willing to play a sub 6ft cb.

 

[Spurzinho]

mostly because he's been playing rb for the past couple of years. he has potential at cb but his height could hold him back as not many managers are willing to play a sub 6ft cb.

Sub 6 ft, are you sure? Always looked a big lad to me. He's taller than CCV isn't he? And Tanganga. Unless my eyes have been playing tricks on me. Transfermarkt has him down as 180cm which is 5'11 which if true would surprise me.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I could be wrong but I was under the impression that Josh has some injury issues that need to be carefully managed if he wants to avoid surgery. I would guess that his omission is more to do with that than with him being ostracised.

Edwards is not going for very well established reasons. He signed a new deal on the understanding that (a) we would give him his chance (b) if, and only if, he bucked his ideas up. Things haven't gone to plan on (b), so he's not getting (a). Ergo, he's not going. At this stage another loan wouldn't be in anyone's interests and I think he'll either see his deal out and leave or we'll try and find him a new club.

If Marcus leaves and proves us wrong I'll be very, very surprised. The things that leaked out about his time at Norwich are not the behaviour or attitude of a top player but a wasted talent. He had a great opportunity to prove everyone wrong and he fecked it up totally.

Some people don't want to hear this, those people are wrong.

Were they worse than the stuff that leaked out about Grealish (the player we are now about to spend 20m plus wages on) at Villa?

I’m not making excuses for anyone, but it’s not like Edwards has been caught in a crack den, fuckng 15yo Albanian hookers. As a father of two - once - teenage kids (who are still doing stupid shit in their twenties), I just don’t expect them all to be angelic robots.

If that means Edwards isn’t right for us now, so be it, but let’s be straight - after being given a taste of (a) he was then regressed by the club, so maybe (b) become a by product, not necessarily the cause.

 

[Spurzinho]

Were they worse than the stuff that leaked out about Grealish (the player we are now about to spend 20m plus wages on) at Villa?

I’m not making excuses for anyone, but it’s not like Edwards has been caught in a crack den, fuckng 15yo Albanian hookers. As a father of two - once - teenage kids (who are still doing stupid shit in their twenties), I just don’t expect them all to be angelic robots.

If that means Edwards isn’t right for us now, so be it, but let’s be straight - after being given a taste of (a) he was then regressed by the club, so maybe (b) become a by product, not necessarily the cause.

There is a fundamental difference between Grealish and Edwards. Grealish, for all his crap, was doing it day in day out on the training ground and was a shining light in the couple of Premier League appearences he made. Edwards, by my understanding, hasn't done that in a long time. When he first started training with the first team he caught everyone's attention and then just as quickly...it stopped and it hasn't returned. No one at the club is talking to the media about what a tragic loss of talent this kid is, no first teamer is raving about him week after week trying to get through to him by going public. That was not the case for Grealish. From day one he was tearing it up against the first teamers and they weren't shy about telling people about it. Now, unless people are suggesting that our players and staff are under a gagging order to keep quiet about this genius in our ranks who is so close to mega stardom if he could only knuckle down then I've got a bridge to sell you. There are some issues in our development of players, everyone acknowledges this. Edwards is an entirely different situation. His last two and half years have been wasted and a very large part of the responsibility for that lays with Edwards for that.

Your comparison with your own kids is a complete non-sequitur. Your kids are not enrolled in an elite academy, having been groomed in the ways of the professional sports person since they were nippers. A big part of the academy process is to weed out those that are not emotionally equipped for the life of a professional footballer.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Sub 6 ft, are you sure? Always looked a big lad to me. He's taller than CCV isn't he? And Tanganga. Unless my eyes have been playing tricks on me. Transfermarkt has him down as 180cm which is 5'11 which if true would surprise me.

it's always difficult to judge but i'd have said he's around 5'11.

here's a couple of pictures of him next to tanganga and others - https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/877024998 https://www.gettyimages.co.uk/license/846497278

 

[Streetspur77]

Can see people seriously not see a difference between going to a few parties as a teenager and turning up late to training every day whilst on loan?

 

[IGSpur]

We're playing in the final of that tournament now KO 1min