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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

newbie

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Jul 16, 2004
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Oliver Skipp’s game by numbers vs. Burnley:

65 touches
54 passes (85% accuracy)
5 long passes completed
3 aerial duels won
2 tackles
1 interception
1 shot
1 take on completed
1 chance created

How did he play?
 

edson

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May 17, 2005
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How did he play?
He was OK no more than that a lot of sideways passing a few good balls played out wide and he made a few loose passes that got picked off but he managed to win the ball back from them right away but overall he was steady and he can be very happy with that..
 
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IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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notice how a lot of those references are for u16 and below, that was three years ago now, at some point he's going to need to actually deliver on some of that early promise. plus skipp has always played up a year so comparisons with tob and kirby aren't entirely fair, especially at a younger age where the difference between one year group to the next is more significant. tob was ahead(though not by much) when poch took him up to the first team but skipp was only just leaving school by that point whilst tob was entering his 2nd year, it wouldn't have been logical to take skipp up so early.

you can say there's a reason tob has been ahead of skipp for england but equally i could say there's a reason tob has been getting benched by players one or even two years younger than him for spurs, yes he has missed a decent chunk of football in that time but even before disappearing with the first team he was only doing OK. skipp has been one of our best players in 90% of the games he's played, i don't think tob has ever shown anywhere near that level of consistent quality. i can probably only recall 3 or 4 times he's put in a performance of that level, the rest of the time he just leaves me feeling that he should be doing a hell of a lot more. he has some decent technical ability and some good athleticism(something he doesn't use enough of) but mentally he just doesn't seem to be switched on in the same way that skipp is, it also doesn't help that he often plays as though he's just rolled out of bed.

i want him to come through as much as anyone but he can't just be given it because he looked good for england at the nike cup a few years ago. he was decent yesterday, now he needs to put in that kind of performance and better on a more weekly basis rather than letting games pass him by.

I have no dog in this fight so am really just giving my opinion on what I've seen on them for the last 4/5 years. For 3/4 of those years TOB has been the better player. Skipp has always been exceptional too e.g. I definitely think Skipp was better than Winks at the same age it was just Kirby and TOB were better, again highlighted by a coach who worked with them closely in that time. The age difference thing, I kind of get what you mean but they would have all featured in the same international tournaments. It's swings and roundabouts Skipp would have been the biggest in his school year, whereas TOB would have been bigger in his international year. Edwards is born very late in the year and noone mentioned it as a reason why he might be at a disadvantage to others. Maghoma use to play in their age group, I would say that's more of a significant issue. TOB also played up along with Kirby and as I mentioned many times was better than the CMs a year older than him, so don't think the age thing is really relevant.

I'm just a person that won't dismiss what I have seen for 4/5 years due to what has changed in one year. If TOB got his head right I could see him still having a chance of making it at top level football, as he is a real natural talent. Not here as we're not gonna bring more than one through from this age group, and Skipp has the mentality and suitability for Poch's game but it could happen, if he left and got his head right. It's the same with Winks/Onomah. I'm not going to dismiss Onomah's ability because Winks is a more reliable player. I can understand why it doesn't make sense or why someone wouldn't believe or care for what I say even, but it's my opinion. Going back to TOB/Skipp outside of this year, the only year where you would say Skipp 'outperformed' TOB was 2017/18 since 2013 as TOB barely played in 16/17. TOB's first year in the academy he barely played any football and his development was handled poorly, which everyone agreed on while Skipp played regularly. We would both agree that playing would be better than not playing. Despite that England coaches still being deemed him the best option for England at the Euros, after looking and studying both of them. They also would have seen TOB and Skipp on an even field during trials etc. The following season, can't remember what happened with TOB but they still chose him for the World Cup where he was England's best midfielder. Would that have happened if Skipp was in there, I don't know but the England coaches obviously stuck with TOB for a reason and it paid off. Why would they not have gone with Skipp if they thought he was better? They owe nothing to either and just try to choose the best teams. As you know the year before TOB wasn't even playing football for us, as and there's a good chance when he did get to play he might have been rusty the same we've seen from older players who train with the first team drop back down then look rusty.

Either way there's no argument to be had that Skipp has played a lot better for us than TOB for various reasons. When I first saw Skipp, TOB and Kirby play I thought all 3 had the ability to play for Spurs first team in the future as they were 3 of the best players I'd ever seen in the academy. So as I say I don't really have a side to pick. When Kirby left people were only really comparing who would do best out of either of those two with noone really mentioning Skipp, because they were a fraction better. Skipp is someone I've rated highly and gone on about for age, he's someone I believe should have gone to the World Cup and the Euros for England, and he's someone I believe could be a World Class DM. In fact I've mentioned it a lot I feel he is even somewhat underrated with regards to his forward passing and ability to start and join attacks.

All my point was initially and to give context, was that I think TOB is still a better CM than Skipp, imo. Better means different things to different people. Are we talking ability, technique, potential, all of it, mentality, and all of these things are affected by opportunity, development and style of play both the team and the individual and how suited they are. You know that one player who doesn't work here might work elsewhere and vice versa. I always thought TOB would have a good chance of coming through here moreso than Onomah as he is versatile and plays like Bentaleb in a sense, but we've seen Poch prefers the more harrier types anyway. Would things have panned out differently if Skipp was integrated and TOB was left to play, who knows. I know TOB started off poorly anyway and I've given my reasons as to why. Maybe TOB never quite recovered from expecting to be the main man, whereas Skipp is a lot more adaptable. So many things are at play. Skipp is clearly ahead of TOB right now and rightly, so, only one of Skipp, TOB and Kirby were ever going to make it anyway here and all 3 had the potential to be top top players so, I'm happy regardless that one has been given a chance. It's the first case here where I can think that Poch has given one of our real top top players a proper chance in their favourite position. I'm ecstatic. And I'm sensible enough to know that he can't really give many more to others. I also don't expect Skipp to play many more this year, or be a first team regular as an 18 year old but more games here and there and being careful not to overwork him we could have a real player on our hands. So I'm real excited atm.

Always interesting going back and reading over old posts about them, to see where they were at different times and who was catching the eye, which I'm doing now

Also in saying all this, I don't really disagree with you. I think TOB is the better CM (in terms of ability) you asked why so gave you my reasons. If it was vice versa and you had just said that Skipp was our best CM I wouldn't have questioned it as it's also a fair assessment and there is more 'evidence' supporting that case anyway.

As I'm talking about all 3 of them, and I thought Skipp did so well yesterday, as a homage I'll post the first game I think I saw them play, when I didn't have a clue who was who at the time. As you can see, and like I say about Winks, their game has barely changed at all haha. To me they were just no. 4, 8 and 10 at the time and it was clear they were going to be playing for England. This was probably the best age group, I'd seen for us, which I said many times, and when I found out that City also had their golden generation in the same year, and Gomes was coming through and Chelsea had theirs. I knew that age group would start winning things.

 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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England u15s play their first game together on Monday. So far we know Scarlett and Hackett are involved. FYI Forson is still training alone but has been called up, though still not really a surprise. The other notable inclusion is Shola Shoretire, who's name has been going about for a year. Just recently made headlines as he came on in the UYL against Valencia and he is still 14 years old.
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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I think, in that game, we were lining up like...

1: Josh Oluwayemi
2: Marcel Elva-Fontaine (?)
3: Kane Thompson-Sommers (i think)
4: Ollie Skipp
5: TJ Eyoma
6: Jubril Okedina
7: Can't see a no.7
8: TOB
9: D'Jean Spender
10: Nya Kirby
11: Paris Maghoma
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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I think, in that game, we were lining up like...

1: Josh Oluwayemi
2: Marcel Elva-Fontaine (?) Tariq Hinds
3: Kane Thompson-Sommers (i think) Tushaun Walters
4: Ollie Skipp
5: TJ Eyoma Reo Griffiths
6: Jubril Okedina TJ Eyoma
7: Can't see a no.7 Jeremie Mukendi
8: TOB
9: D'Jean Spender Cheyce Grant
10: Nya Kirby
11: Paris Maghoma

A few incorrect. Walters was actually really good. Think he suffered from injuries then got picked up by Chelsea. Think Grant has been playing for England C or something recently.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
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Well, with the news that Dier will be out till January recovering from surgery, plus our other mounting injuries, its possible we'll see some more youth players breakthrough this month. I guess Marsh, given he's traveled and played in pre-season fixtures, is most likely the next CM to get minutes.
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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A few incorrect. Walters was actually really good. Think he suffered from injuries then got picked up by Chelsea. Think Grant has been playing for England C or something recently.

Your eyes are clearly better than mine. Yeh, Cheyce Grant went to Boreham Wood where his performances at U18 level got him noticed by England C. I'm not sure if he's still at Boreham Wood though, I think he got released at the end of his scholarship and went to Hendon. Could be wrong though.

D'Jean Spencer not getting picked up really puzzled me. I was always just as confused that Max Joseph and Luke Wright never found clubs either. All three seemed more than technically proficient to deserve a chance somewhere.

TuShaun Walters didn't last long at Chelsea. I think he was only there for 6 months. He's back playing in the Isthmian North north now.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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England u15s play their first game together on Monday. So far we know Scarlett and Hackett are involved. FYI Forson is still training alone but has been called up, though still not really a surprise. The other notable inclusion is Shola Shoretire, who's name has been going about for a year. Just recently made headlines as he came on in the UYL against Valencia and he is still 14 years old.

Bryan-Waugh is also there.

Also Griffiths scored a hattrick for Lyon in a 4-1 Cup win
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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The Forson situation is a little weird. Its hard to imagine there isn't still interest in him, so I can only guess that we've got a right to compensation and won't budge, leaving him in a bit of a pickle unless he goes abroad, which he might end up having to do. Knowing this was always going to happen it must qualify as shockingly bad advice, whoever was giving it to the lad. We were never going to allow him to just walk away to one of our rivals. I kind of hope bidges haven't been burned and everyone can find a way of getting his representatives back round the table and get this kid playing football again.
 

IGSpur

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Jan 11, 2013
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The Forson situation is a little weird. Its hard to imagine there isn't still interest in him, so I can only guess that we've got a right to compensation and won't budge, leaving him in a bit of a pickle unless he goes abroad, which he might end up having to do. Knowing this was always going to happen it must qualify as shockingly bad advice, whoever was giving it to the lad. We were never going to allow him to just walk away to one of our rivals. I kind of hope bidges haven't been burned and everyone can find a way of getting his representatives back round the table and get this kid playing football again.

That's what I'm thinking. I think at this point it's fairly obvious. My understanding is they sign terms (I think they're still called scholarships) every 2 years, so he would have signed his at the start of the u14 year. He will have a year left. I feel I got ITK on this, that I imagine I would have shared, but can't remember it exactly unless I go searching. But I believe it didn't end amicably and I think like you say we are blocking him from joining other clubs like we did Kirby. And rightly so I think, but at the end of the day it's a 14 year old badly advised kid that is being affected the most here. I'd imagine bridges have been burned as he would be back in our set up. We hold the necessary paperwork for the kid and he is one of the best or I imagine the best in his age group. If there was a way for it to be resolved, I think we would have already done so.

As is all the rage nowadays, I think he should just go abroad the club won't really care. Go to a club with a good academy so he can continue his development. but also stand a good chance of being offered chances in the future.
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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That's what I'm thinking. I think at this point it's fairly obvious. My understanding is they sign terms (I think they're still called scholarships) every 2 years, so he would have signed his at the start of the u14 year. He will have a year left. I feel I got ITK on this, that I imagine I would have shared, but can't remember it exactly unless I go searching. But I believe it didn't end amicably and I think like you say we are blocking him from joining other clubs like we did Kirby. And rightly so I think, but at the end of the day it's a 14 year old badly advised kid that is being affected the most here. I'd imagine bridges have been burned as he would be back in our set up. We hold the necessary paperwork for the kid and he is one of the best or I imagine the best in his age group. If there was a way for it to be resolved, I think we would have already done so.

As is all the rage nowadays, I think he should just go abroad the club won't really care. Go to a club with a good academy so he can continue his development. but also stand a good chance of being offered chances in the future.

someone on bigsoccer said he's been with man utd recently, is that not the case then?
 

Westmorlandspur

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Feb 1, 2013
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Josh Onomah subbed at half time on Sat. Hammered by his manager after the game. Stated he was not good enough, nothing on the ball. Gave ball away five times in early part of the game, that’s why he was subbed.
Quotes from the Sheffield Star. Manager under serious pressure at Sheffield Wed
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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That could be true as don’t we have our old u18 manager there now , McKenna ?

yeah he's there, not sure if he'd have ever worked with forson prior to leaving though.

Josh Onomah subbed at half time on Sat. Hammered by his manager after the game. Stated he was not good enough, nothing on the ball. Gave ball away five times in early part of the game, that’s why he was subbed.
Quotes from the Sheffield Star. Manager under serious pressure at Sheffield Wed

and yet their fans were saying he was one of the few positives and just assumed he must've been injured. pretty cowardly by the manager to dig out a player he took off at 0-0 when they went on to lose the game.
 

Spurzinho

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Jan 24, 2016
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Josh Onomah subbed at half time on Sat. Hammered by his manager after the game. Stated he was not good enough, nothing on the ball. Gave ball away five times in early part of the game, that’s why he was subbed.
Quotes from the Sheffield Star. Manager under serious pressure at Sheffield Wed

To be fair if you go in twitter not many Sheff Wednesday fans agree with their manager. Most felt Onomah was looking quite good and are totally incredulous that he picked Onomah out for criticism.
 

newbie

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Jul 16, 2004
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To be fair if you go in twitter not many Sheff Wednesday fans agree with their manager. Most felt Onomah was looking quite good and are totally incredulous that he picked Onomah out for criticism.

Can they cancel the loan? We go in to the Xmas period with only Winks, Big Mo and young Skipp. I’m sure coming home would be a welcome change of scenery for him.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
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yeah he's there, not sure if he'd have ever worked with forson prior to leaving though.



and yet their fans were saying he was one of the few positives and just assumed he must've been injured. pretty cowardly by the manager to dig out a player he took off at 0-0 when they went on to lose the game.

Some quotes about Onomah:

" It's worth watching the match* to see just how much his performance summed up your comment to a tee, first 10 minutes, really nervous, very poor passing giving the ball away on simple passes four or five times, didn't move around too much, then he grew into the game, some really nice flowing passing moves involved three or four players (Pelupessy was key in a lot of those for the fans on here who love to slag him off), good attacking runs from him and he was involved further up the pitch.

Onomah wasn't brilliant but he wasn't terrible either, he was involved in a lot of the key moves of the first half and to take him off with the reasons Jos did is ludicrous and weak from him. Clearly Jos watched the first 10 minutes then fell asleep."



" He needs play in an attacking side. He is talented imo. He picked the wrong club rather than us picking the wrong player. "


Rob O Neil and John Pearson on ifollow were saying all first half how good he was playing. They both agreed it was his best performance since West Brom when again Bannan wasn't playing. They were surprised when he was subbed

It was his best performance since west brom. He definitely shouldn't have been subbed on that performance. Having said that we had more attacking possession in the second half which might illustrate the fine lines between losing and winning. Of course that is if you can call giving away at least one, usually two goals a game a fine line! Back to Onomah. Since his first couple of games when he looked promising, including the forest debacle (which now looks like a relatively decent performance), he has been poor except for WBA and today when Bannan was absent. In between he has been mainly poor. I remember him feigning turning left and right being pursued by a Birmingham player and he ended up running one way and leaving the ball to run the other way and be picked up by his pursuer!!

He started off very badly and gave the ball away with very bad passes in the first 15 minutes but he definitely relaxed into the game and improved a bit, his game would be better served being higher up the pitch though. By the end of the half I'd have given him 6.5 so was surprised he went off.



Most fan agree that he played well, given it was his first start in over a month. Definitely think the ShefWed manager is going to get fired. All the fans agreed that the manager was in the wrong for criticizing Onomah to the press given that he wasn't the worst player on the team.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
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Can they cancel the loan? We go in to the Xmas period with only Winks, Big Mo and young Skipp. I’m sure coming home would be a welcome change of scenery for him.

Would like this to happen but don't think it will. Chances are if we cancel the loan, we'll look for another team to send Josh to for the rest of the season.
 
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