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The Spurs Youth Thread - 2018/19

newbie

Well-Known Member
Jul 16, 2004
6,051
6,342
Just watched Edwards 1st half ( well last 30 mins) still has some lovely touches and couple of nice runs. But he does get brushed off very easily. Made me wonder what he’d be like if he really bulked up. Almost like a shaqiri or Ryan Fraser. Seems to benefit the really small players that are dribblers even to a degree Maradonna.

He will learn to adapt naturally he will get bigger and get stronger but he won’t be stocky he does not need to be, just witey and put on some man muscle. It could hinder him bulking up.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Top night out despite the result. We were the better team technically but struggled a bit after Maghomas knock. Didn't make any subs till et seemingly because of the lack of options while arsenals helped change the game, and we ran out of legs in extra time.

Motm for us Cirkin in my books. Good aggression and ability at both ends of the pitch. Shout out to the goalie too - he kept going despite it being difficult, was shouting and helping his defence even at 5-2, and turned around to those of us still in the terrace at the end to say thanks and shake our hands - absolute gent.

Sounds like we ended up suffering because of injuries. They had players on the bench that could chnage the game, whereas we didn't. Regardless of how we would all have set out the starting eleven, having Markanday and Richards available would have meant that going into extra time we would have really quality coming in. Cooper is decent but won't change a game and we know what Poch is about. As I said I'd rather had Thorpe but that is still on ability more than anything he has done so far. Arsenal's academy at this age group is very good, and they have some pretty strong players like Vontae Daley-Campbell who would just completely outmuscle our players.

I think a testament to this age group is also that Skipp could have played, and we lost Madueke two players who would have started that game if they were available for them. I must admit I've been pleasantly surprised by this age group. I think I had said before I though they were good at u16s but I didn't think they would be this good, let's hope they manage to win something. And as I've said before there are still players like Pedder who we've not seen and even Thorpe who I don't think we've seen anywhere near to what he is capable of yet, still to develop. Just just hope the transition to u23s isn't as much of a ballsup.

Really pleased Cirkin is starting to show his quality. I know I had been championing for a while, then quite a few weren't impressed when he played in a tournament last year. I assumed it was just some poor form having seen him before I'm just glad he is managing to really show himself.

Having never seen him, can you compare Cirkin to a left back of similar style? Is he similar to a Davies style of LB (good defensively, steady eddie) or is he more of a marauding left back (Chilwell/Rose). It will save us a huge amount of money if we can bring through a LB prospect. Also, how far away from the first team is he in terms of physicality?

I think a Davies/Chilwell combo. He is quite aggressive in his play but he's dribbling kind of reminds me of Davies. He isn't gung ho by any means, but he is excellent in attack. His awareness, weight of pass, ability to take the ball in tight areas and play some one touch stuff, means he is gret for linking up, and his dribbling isn't KWP levels but he does have great close control to get into the box. With regards to how far he is from the first team, It's an awkward question as it's not really about size. There are players like Vogle and Aarons who if they were with us wouldn't be considered physically ready but are handling the Championship very well, while our very own Hinds is still in the u23s. Heck some fans still aren't convinced by KWP and still trust him physically to withstand the test of PL football despite 3 MOTMs, so asking if he's physically ready is a very subjective thing. I'd see how his performances go next year, but depending on our LB situation next year and if continues his form into u23 football or even improve it I would be happy for him to make appearances. I generally need to see how they cope with u23 football before making that kind of judgement.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Just watched Edwards 1st half ( well last 30 mins) still has some lovely touches and couple of nice runs. But he does get brushed off very easily. Made me wonder what he’d be like if he really bulked up. Almost like a shaqiri or Ryan Fraser. Seems to benefit the really small players that are dribblers even to a degree Maradonna.

I caught the 2nd half and he looked good out there. He's attempting to track back and disrupt but it obviously isn't his forte, however with the ball I am always amazed how someone so small can beat a man so easily, without having to outmuscle them or even drop a skill. The way he took his goal as well taking it underpressure holding off someone bigger than him, and placing it nicely. He's bee doing this all season whenever I've seen him, except putting it away. Hopefully he will start finding the net more.

I wonder what his xG stat is or xA can that be found?
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
georgiou looked like a budget bale in his early days, i mean that in a good way. his game is very simple in that he draws the defender in, knocks it by him and races down the outside, he put in a few dangerous crosses but norwich dealt with them.

I always liked Georgiou and think I have said multiple times he is one of our most effective wingers, but he would never be a star, but he would do a good job. It's why I would much rather we focus on trying to bring through Edwards if we have to bring through one as the difference in ability is ridiculous. However, if we have given up on Edwards and I really don't see him coming through here, I'd at least try Georgiou if to provide options. Though we've got a packed AM area, he would provide a different option to the ones available, in the traditional winger sense.
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
I think the fact that Sterling is next in line speaks to the lack of genuine striker options that we have at the club. I don't really rate Kaz. Harrison is a lot better, although I realise he's currently in the doghouse. I prefer Rodel Richards and Jack Roles in that half and half false 9 that we play in certain situations, in others they could easily switch with Dele if we wanted to go longer. I'm not suggesting either could replace Kane but if its just for a sub appearence here and there then they offer good quality and the brain to potentially read the game that Sterling, for all his work rate does not.

We really need one of young striker/forwards to bulk up and step up to the plate because we're so weak in this area.
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,768
2,099
I think the fact that Sterling is next in line speaks to the lack of genuine striker options that we have at the club. I don't really rate Kaz. Harrison is a lot better, although I realise he's currently in the doghouse. I prefer Rodel Richards and Jack Roles in that half and half false 9 that we play in certain situations, in others they could easily switch with Dele if we wanted to go longer. I'm not suggesting either could replace Kane but if its just for a sub appearence here and there then they offer good quality and the brain to potentially read the game that Sterling, for all his work rate does not.

We really need one of young striker/forwards to bulk up and step up to the plate because we're so weak in this area.

Why is Harrison in the doghouse? I missed it.

I can see why Sterling is getting a go now, he/his style and attributes are probably better for a drop-in-and-get-something-back-now. Reminds me a bit of Cameron Lancaster or Lee Barnard, who only made a couple of appearances but had the work rate and it was enough for that match or two. Like Sterling, they might have got a bit of luck, scored a goal and away you go, they might never play at that level again, but unlike Kane who was given intermittent games as he was developing, Kaz may be the right option for the here and now.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
This is a great article with quotes from parents, scouts, and some coaches.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...remier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html

I found it as another person I interact with on various platform posted it.


I post to share not to create arguments, but this stuff is literally what I and others have been saying for however many years. How much is wasted. I try to convince fans but there is this perception that the manager will know best and if a player isn't played then they are not good enough. There's the fake promises and 'assurances' to keep talented players tied to clubs, where they stagnate and inevitably don't fulfil their potential and get told they were overrated and never good enough. I've said players will play with each other, they will know how good another youngster is, they train with the first team every now and then and can make comparisons. If they see someone not progressing they're wising up to not staying around. Parents are also wising up to the EL/CC con, where they get lip service minutes then fans will think they are being used but they aren't really seriously being considered, it's just to convince that talent to stay. Both in case there is no other option but to use them in a real risk averse but unplanned way, but also if they don't leave the club can't end up with egg on their face.

It mentions how youngsters are considered impatient for not waiting for their opportunity or trusting their club because they want to play at 18, when we know fans will crow about 18 year olds playing in weaker leagues. How there is a lack of trust in youth things many have been saying, and fans defending.

The amount of times, I used to go into the transfer thread and say we don't need to sign this player when we have him, to be mocked or told 'if they were good enough they'd be playing' or 'you don't know you're just a fan and don't see them in training'

Over the summer our fans were all desperate to buy Seri if I went in there and said we should just use so and so, it would have been the same.

I always see fans say, why can't we have scouts and find players like Dortmund do before they blow, and yet when we have those players we go and do what Fulham do anyway.

The scout was confused how they could buy Seri and another player, when they have O'Riley someone I've mentioned many times in the past playing u23 football. In fact I had actually expected him to get chances this year being at Fulham but it's probably affected him, them being in the PL which is why they brought Seri. But that is also our club all over. If we were after a Barca 17/18 year old we'd all be wetting ourselves, yet when Barca were looking at Edwards, and other clubs, and clubs home and abroad were looking at Onomah at 17, we had two major talents on our hands, and there was a lack of trust. We convinced them to stay here, and watch them stagnate and then have the cheek to say they weren't that good. Germany are laughing at us. There are now fans who probably think Marsh is better than Onomah due to what has happened. KWP is still struggling for first team football, and relied on heavy injuries on his side to get a chance. Took his chance,but once our worst players of the season is back and our signing who let's face it has a very questionable attitude are back, he drops to the bench again, and people believe when the manager says he trusts him as much or he is a genuine squad player. Yet doesn't get rotated in anywhere near as much unless there are injuries.

The only reason Hudosn-Odoi is now being played by Chelsea is because another club want to sign him. If Bayern weren't pursuing him so hard, they wouldn't care about him. Players like Baker, Colkett, Barker, Onomah,Chalobah, Edwards, Roberts absolutely wasted, as they were still being sold dreams and naively trusting the PL managers and clubs. It's great to see for England's sake that the players and more importantly the parents are starting to realise what is going on.

Annoyingly a lot of the 96/97/98s are still tied into contracts and are still stagnating, but hopefully they do the right thing and get out of their clubs and try to just go abroad. I'm aware they can't all go to Germany it doesn't make sense but France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland just get out, as staying here is a shamble.

I've posted quotes from scouts international and English, coaches here and abroad, sporting directors here and abroad, articles or information on other clubs being interested in our own players and yet the overriding belief that seems impossible to break here and I stress at every single PL club, so again no Poch attack here, is that why would a manager not play them if they were good enough to play for the first team, therefore said player is being overhyped and won't ever make it here. I've gone on Bluemoon the same was said about Sancho, I went on the Shedend the same is being said about Hudson-Odoi, impatient, trust the manager, if they don't want to trust and have a bad attitude they can leave, who can they replace, they've only played u23 football, they're arrogant, they manager wouldn't shoot himself in the foot on purpose, it's high risk, they're inexperienced. And yet there are fans here who believe that if those 'special' players were here things would be different whilst also simultaneously saying that our first eleven as good as everyone elses. There are always special players at other clubs, as we believe that other clubs have issues with giving youngsters a chance. But there aren't special players here as we know they'd get a chance if they were at the same level.

There are of course some fans that really want the chances to be given, but the general belief is the manager knows best, and when his head is on the block fair enough if he doesn't want to take the risk, but it's the lack of acknowledgement that these players are being wasted or are overhyped that is annoying or at fault for everything that is annoying to me. And clubs, if you're not going to use them let them go. There's not much that can be done as most fans won't see these players and really and truly trying to convince the fans of anything means nothing as that won't get them played but I post to firstly share what is going on in the youth world, but then also because I am passionate about wanting our club and country to do well, and I think we waste sooo much time and resources looking elsewhere when 8 times out of 10 we have a better player than anyone we can sign right under our nose.

Anyway here's another ex-Barca and current Wolves scout chiming in realising how much our players are being undervalued. After the great summer of 2017 I think people believed that things might be different in the PL, I said I think there'd be a lot of talk and good will and things will go back to normal and it basically has. Also so long as the PL is the richest league I don't things will change here as clubs are happy to buy em back. My number one concern we are producing equal talent but are most hamstrung by finances that is why I'm so frustrated by our own situation.

https://twitter.com/miguelrios__/status/1083099116794728448
 
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danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
I think the fact that Sterling is next in line speaks to the lack of genuine striker options that we have at the club. I don't really rate Kaz. Harrison is a lot better, although I realise he's currently in the doghouse. I prefer Rodel Richards and Jack Roles in that half and half false 9 that we play in certain situations, in others they could easily switch with Dele if we wanted to go longer. I'm not suggesting either could replace Kane but if its just for a sub appearence here and there then they offer good quality and the brain to potentially read the game that Sterling, for all his work rate does not.

We really need one of young striker/forwards to bulk up and step up to the plate because we're so weak in this area.
No attacker has a chance of making it until Parrott surely? He’s the one with a bit of fight and hunger about him. Got a little bit of that street footballer that we seem to coach out of attackers maybe a bit too much too.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Why is Harrison in the doghouse? I missed it.

I can see why Sterling is getting a go now, he/his style and attributes are probably better for a drop-in-and-get-something-back-now. Reminds me a bit of Cameron Lancaster or Lee Barnard, who only made a couple of appearances but had the work rate and it was enough for that match or two. Like Sterling, they might have got a bit of luck, scored a goal and away you go, they might never play at that level again, but unlike Kane who was given intermittent games as he was developing, Kaz may be the right option for the here and now.

Sterling is more Defoe like, he is physically up to the task and as you say a hard worker, but like @Spurzinho I generally have preferred Harrison but he has stagnated and just returning from injury so I doubt he'd be upto the task now. Plus if what he is alluding to is true then I'd expect him to be sold at some point
 

Rob

The Boss
Admin
Jun 8, 2003
28,014
65,116
This is a great article with quotes from parents, scouts, and some coaches.
https://www.independent.co.uk/sport...remier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html

I found it as another person I interact with on various platform posted it.


I post to share not to create arguments, but this stuff is literally what I and others have been saying for however many years. How much is wasted. I try to convince fans but there is this perception that the manager will know best and if a player isn't played then they are not good enough. There's the fake promises and 'assurances' to keep talented players tied to clubs, where they stagnate and inevitably don't fulfil their potential and get told they were overrated and never good enough. I've said players will play with each other, they will know how good another youngster is, they train with the first team every now and then and can make comparisons. If they see someone not progressing they're wising up to not staying around. Parents are also wising up to the EL/CC con, where they get lip service minutes then fans will think they are being used but they aren't really seriously being considered, it's just to convince that talent to stay. Both in case there is no other option but to use them in a real risk averse but unplanned way, but also if they don't leave the club can't end up with egg on their face.

It mentions how youngsters are considered impatient for not waiting for their opportunity or trusting their club because they want to play at 18, when we know fans will crow about 18 year olds playing in weaker leagues. How there is a lack of trust in youth things many have been saying, and fans defending.

The amount of times, I used to go into the transfer thread and say we don't need to sign this player when we have him, to be mocked or told 'if they were good enough they'd be playing' or 'you don't know you're just a fan and don't see them in training'

Over the summer our fans were all desperate to buy Seri if I went in there and said we should just use so and so, it would have been the same.

I always see fans say, why can't we have scouts and find players like Dortmund do before they blow, and yet when we have those players we go and do what Fulham do anyway.

The scout was confused how they could buy Seri and another player, when they have O'Riley someone I've mentioned many times in the past playing u23 football. In fact I had actually expected him to get chances this year being at Fulham but it's probably affected him, them being in the PL which is why they brought Seri. But that is also our club all over. If we were after a Barca 17/18 year old we'd all be wetting ourselves, yet when Barca were looking at Edwards, and other clubs, and clubs home and abroad were looking at Onomah at 17, we had two major talents on our hands, and there was a lack of trust. We convinced them to stay here, and watch them stagnate and then have the cheek to say they weren't that good. Germany are laughing at us. There are now fans who probably think Marsh is better than Onomah due to what has happened. KWP is still struggling for first team football, and relied on heavy injuries on his side to get a chance. Took his chance,but once our worst players of the season is back and our signing who let's face it has a very questionable attitude are back, he drops to the bench again, and people believe when the manager says he trusts him as much or he is a genuine squad player. Yet doesn't get rotated in anywhere near as much unless there are injuries.

The only reason Hudosn-Odoi is now being played by Chelsea is because another club want to sign him. If Bayern weren't pursuing him so hard, they wouldn't care about him. Players like Baker, Colkett, Barker, Onomah,Chalobah, Edwards, Roberts absolutely wasted, as they were still being sold dreams and naively trusting the PL managers and clubs. It's great to see for England's sake that the players and more importantly the parents are starting to realise what is going on.

Annoyingly a lot of the 96/97/98s are still tied into contracts and are still stagnating, but hopefully they do the right thing and get out of their clubs and try to just go abroad. I'm aware they can't all go to Germany it doesn't make sense but France, Italy, Spain, Portugal, Holland just get out, as staying here is a shamble.

I've posted quotes from scouts international and English, coaches here and abroad, sporting directors here and abroad, articles or information on other clubs being interested in our own players and yet the overriding belief that seems impossible to break here and I stress at every single PL club, so again no Poch attack here, is that why would a manager not play them if they were good enough to play for the first team, therefore said player is being overhyped and won't ever make it here. I've gone on Bluemoon the same was said about Sancho, I went on the Shedend the same is being said about Hudson-Odoi, impatient, trust the manager, if they don't want to trust and have a bad attitude they can leave, who can they replace, they've only played u23 football, they're arrogant, they manager wouldn't shoot himself in the foot on purpose, it's high risk, they're inexperienced. And yet there are fans here who believe that if those 'special' players were here things would be different whilst also simultaneously saying that our first eleven as good as everyone elses. There are always special players at other clubs, as we believe that other clubs have issues with giving youngsters a chance. But there aren't special players here as we know they'd get a chance if they were at the same level.

There are of course some fans that really want the chances to be given, but the general belief is the manager knows best, and when his head is on the block fair enough if he doesn't want to take the risk, but it's the lack of acknowledgement that these players are being wasted or are overhyped that is annoying or at fault for everything that is annoying to me. And clubs, if you're not going to use them let them go. There's not much that can be done as most fans won't see these players and really and truly trying to convince the fans of anything means nothing as that won't get them played but I post to firstly share what is going on in the youth world, but then also because I am passionate about wanting our club and country to do well, and I think we waste sooo much time and resources looking elsewhere when 8 times out of 10 we have a better player than anyone we can sign right under our nose.

Anyway here's another ex-Barca and current Wolves scout chiming in realising how much our players are being undervalued. After the great summer of 2017 I think people believed that things might be different in the PL, I said I think there'd be a lot of talk and good will and things will go back to normal and it basically has. Also so long as the PL is the richest league I don't things will change here as clubs are happy to buy em back. My number one concern we are producing equal talent but are most hamstrung by finances that is why I'm so frustrated by our own situation.

https://twitter.com/miguelrios__/status/1083099116794728448


If you want, feel free to submit this to the front page as a column as it's a great read.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
If you want, feel free to submit this to the front page as a column as it's a great read.

Cheers Rob and done. Also, I'm not that creative but if you do think of a way to utilise the youth knowledge here I'd be happy to get involved
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
Sterling is more Defoe like, he is physically up to the task and as you say a hard worker, but like @Spurzinho I generally have preferred Harrison but he has stagnated and just returning from injury so I doubt he'd be upto the task now. Plus if what he is alluding to is true then I'd expect him to be sold at some point
It's too bad we can't combine the two, both of there traits together would make a legit premier league striker.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
and we lost Madueke two players who would have started that game if they were available for them

Speaking of who, he is certainly building himself a highlight reel at such a young age
 

Spurzinho

Well-Known Member
Jan 24, 2016
2,513
8,342
Something that had completely passed me by is that former academy striker Luke Medley is manager of non-league Greenwich Borough FC.

Medley had a pretty nomadic career after leaving us for Bradford. He dropped through the leagues pretty much to the bottom of the pyramid and rarely scored in the process.

2006-2009 was a strange period for our academy. We seemed to be patching together an U18 side at that point. There were lads coming in from all over the place. Some, like Luke, of very questionable ability. We signed him as a second year scholar from Barnet's community scheme to fill the hole left by Radwan Hamed's awful health issue but Luke just wasn't very good. He is up there as one of the most 'out of his depth' lads to ever play for us. Normally I wouldn't be overly critical of an U18 player but given that Luke is 30, retired, and making a new career for himself I'll relax that rule. I'm sure he's heard a lot worse.
 
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