The stadium myth..

Frozen_Waffles

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Thread starter #1
I keep hearing it. Spurs - they would have a chance but wembley y'know.

To be honest the amount of times I have heard it makes me think its some sort of indian burial ground that the team has took turns smashing mirrors over and sacrificing black cats on.

For me it seems like a football pitch. Our results on that ground have been poor but mainly because we played CL football and some bloody good teams there. Now just so you know, the CL is not that easy, it is also less easy if your team is inexperienced in it.

How a few losses have suddenly meant we are crap at wembley I dont know. The spurs team I watched last season was at the end of the season demolishing teams home and away.

If there was some sort of hoodoo it didnt show as we beat a full strength CL finalist and 6 time consecutive Italian champion there.

I know its a friendly and means nothing but what it may show is luck is not against us.

Kane IS the best striker in the premiership, Dele, Eriksen and Son are statistics wise up there with best AM's in the PL, I wouldnt swap Dembele and Wanyama for any other MF pairing, Rose is the best LB in the league and Davies and Trippier are looking like they are improving with every match, our Belgian CB partnership is the most settled and talented in the PL and our GK is the french captain.

Our bench if everyone is fit will look something like this: Vorm, Wimmer, Davies, Dier/Son, Winks, Lamela, Janssen.

That to me seems pretty strong so why all the negativity..

Well.... its wembley ya know.

unless we have some catostrophic injury problems we should be challenging for the title.
 

chavkev

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#2
The reason why we have won less matches at Wembley is mainly because we tend to play better sides there. To play at Wembley usually means that you are in the latter stages of a competition.
 

Bulletspur

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#3
I personally think that we will do very well at Wembley. The media just sensationalise our recent results of playing there, but unfortunately a lot of fans buy into it. The recent results have been poor only just through circumstances, playing at Wembley isn't one of them
 
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mark_2017

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#5
I can understand why people think it, I do if I'm honest and that's down to our performances last year in Europe, which were abysmal. And yes teams do tend to up their game too as it's Wembley, but I'm really hoping we make it a home from home and produce some great performances.
 

widmerpool

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#6
There's never going to be enough data to prove the pitch size argument conclusively one way or the other, but it's reasonable to suggest that a pressing side benefits from a smaller pitch. Same with the benefit of a noisy, partisan crowd, close to the action.

Those aren't superstitious arguments. And factors which are difficult to measure or to prove can still be decisive. Titles, and CL places, are won by very small margins of difference.
 

Dougal

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#7
It's not an argument you're going to win. Unless we improve or match our home form from last season, which is damn near impossible, then people will just blame Wembley. If we don't beat Chelsea, it will be Wembley. Personally, I think it's bullshit too but prepared to wait and see unlike people who are stating it as fact. It's about as brave a prediction as saying that Spurs won't win the League.
 

fridgemagnet

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#8
Part of that ridiculous hoodoo list was loosing to bloody Pompey, how the players/Redknapp didn't turn up for that one i'm still baffled.
 

1882andallthat

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#9
It's not an argument you're going to win. Unless we improve or match our home form from last season, which is damn near impossible, then people will just blame Wembley. If we don't beat Chelsea, it will be Wembley. Personally, I think it's bullshit too but prepared to wait and see unlike people who are stating it as fact. It's about as brave a prediction as staying that Spurs won't win the League.
Agree, that it is as near impossible as impossible could be to replicate our home form, and this would be the case had we still been playing at the lane again this season, when only dropping points against two teams in league games last season, that was just phenomenal. Such is the contrast in terms of our form at Wembley last season it was always going to be played up in the media. It would be interesting to hear how many people would think a draw is acceptable in our first home Wembley game, personally whilst I'd love a home win I'd be more than happy with a draw for what is clearly a tough opener, unless we we're winning with less than 5 minutes to go, and we drop two points right near the end......
 

Everlasting Seconds

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#11
I believe, mainly we need to pick our excuse in order to not look like ignorant, unbearable twats, and that goes for both managers and fans. Either, WHL was too small and we struggled with that, or Wembley is too big and daunting and we struggle with that. We cannot possible, with any reason, complain about both.
 

Blockbuster

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#12
all these excuses for our poor performances? playing bloody good teams? no, not accepting that.
there is an issue at Wembley and the players simply don't perform.

We shat ourselves massively whenever we've played there for a number of years.

Wembley is a problem that we need to over-come very quickly if we are to have ambitions of top 4, or even title challengers, let alone Champions League.

We played Gent at Wembley who are not a good side.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

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#13
all these excuses for our poor performances? playing bloody good teams? no, not accepting that.
there is an issue at Wembley and the players simply don't perform.

We shat ourselves massively whenever we've played there for a number of years.

Wembley is a problem that we need to over-come very quickly if we are to have ambitions of top 4, or even title challengers, let alone Champions League.

We played Gent at Wembley who are not a good side.
We did shit our pants - big game fear. We've had more semi and finals than most of the teams below us in the league. That's why it shows up more.

Gent? We bossed them for the whole match, more than half of which was with 10 men.
It was bad luck and a Dele brain fart. We also lost away to them with all 11 men...
 

WiganSpur

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#14
all these excuses for our poor performances? playing bloody good teams? no, not accepting that.
there is an issue at Wembley and the players simply don't perform.

We shat ourselves massively whenever we've played there for a number of years.

Wembley is a problem that we need to over-come very quickly if we are to have ambitions of top 4, or even title challengers, let alone Champions League.

We played Gent at Wembley who are not a good side.
We didn't play badly against Gent in that game. We absolutely dominated them, even though they scored a set piece goal we still would have won it if it hadn't been for us being already 1-0 down and Dele getting sent off. Even then we still gave it a go.

We lost that tie in the first leg.
 

yiddopaul

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#15
I think we lost a lot at wembley because we were in a bit of a bad run in the league. Wasn't it during our run of draws and we were not playing especially well, that wembley came in and around that bad patch.
 

Shadydan

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#16
all these excuses for our poor performances? playing bloody good teams? no, not accepting that.
there is an issue at Wembley and the players simply don't perform.

We shat ourselves massively whenever we've played there for a number of years.

Wembley is a problem that we need to over-come very quickly if we are to have ambitions of top 4, or even title challengers, let alone Champions League.

We played Gent at Wembley who are not a good side.
We played them off the park with 10 men, not a good example
 

EJWTartanSpur

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#17
The two aren't mutually exclusive ...

We don't per se have a curse at Wembley, nor a hoodoo or a hex. We have tended to play high quality teams there and haven't played our best there. Happens


However, it would be ridiculous to suggest that not being at our home WHL isn't a disadvantage for a number of reasons. Doesn't mean we cant do well there though.


These two points are separate entities from each other which I think the OP doesn't quite see.
 

Frozen_Waffles

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The two aren't mutually exclusive ...

We don't per se have a curse at Wembley, nor a hoodoo or a hex. We have tended to play high quality teams there and haven't played our best there. Happens


However, it would be ridiculous to suggest that not being at our home WHL isn't a disadvantage for a number of reasons. Doesn't mean we cant do well there though.


These two points are separate entities from each other which I think the OP doesn't quite see.
Oh I think I do, but what is home advantage, well its firstly and foremost having the majority of fans. This is one effect, which we will have.

The second is consistently playing at the same ground, we will be playing there all season.

My point, which perhaps you may have missed. We hammered crap teams home or away when on form and we will do the same next season.

I think I even heard that its being watered the same and cut to the same length, but imo its an excuse for teams to fail, we are not a weak team like arsenal.

Basically people are expecting this to work against us, I dont see this being the case.

Now please expand on your *number of reasons?? What reasons, because at the moment the two are atmosphere (neglible when you have 70k plus cheering on a team than 25k and pitch size, which imo is minimal. What other reasons are there?

Any player who finds it difficult to perform at a stadium like Wembley should not imo be a spurs player.
 

Kiedis

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#19
We performed well against Monaco, Gent, CSKA and Chelsea last year.
The game against Leverkusen was probably the worst game we played all year.

I'm not very worried. We're still better than most of the teams we face in this league, so I expect our points tally to be decent. The games against the other top 6 sides will probably be somewhat harder though...
 
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EJWTartanSpur

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Oh I think I do, but what is home advantage, well its firstly and foremost having the majority of fans. This is one effect, which we will have.

The second is consistently playing at the same ground, we will be playing there all season.

My point, which perhaps you may have missed. We hammered crap teams home or away when on form and we will do the same next season.

I think I even heard that its being watered the same and cut to the same length, but imo its an excuse for teams to fail, we are not a weak team like arsenal.

Basically people are expecting this to work against us, I dont see this being the case.

Now please expand on your *number of reasons?? What reasons, because at the moment the two are atmosphere (neglible when you have 70k plus cheering on a team than 25k and pitch size, which imo is minimal. What other reasons are there?

Any player who finds it difficult to perform at a stadium like Wembley should not imo be a spurs player.
RE : the bit I've bolded - When will the familiarity kick in at Wembley ? After 2 games ? A quarter of the season ? One third of the season ? Whatever it is you are already at a small disadvantage compared to being at WHL. I don't necessarily disagree with everything you say, nor do I think being at Wembley is an insurmountable challenge, however, I think the margins are a lot smaller, and the complexities of this topic are perhaps a lot finer than you are making out. Everything makes a difference no matter how small. Then when you add up lots of small differences ......

RE : hammering teams home and away. Being away from home engenders an entirely different mindset to being at home, or indeed being at a home away from home. Yes, we will continue to win away from home, I believe, I'm just not entirely sure of its relevance in this particular discussion.

RE : number of reasons. I've copied over a post I made on another thread 2-3 days ago...

I don't see one major issue with Wembley, but rather a myriad of smaller ones that all accumulate into a situation that is slightly worrying to me...

- pitch size
- potentially less intense atmosphere
- clubs having their one visit to the national stadium and being artificially 'up for it'. In any given season you can rely on a handful of home games where varying situations dictate that the opposition turn up asleep and are just not really up for it which usually leads to an easy 3 points. Can't see that happening here.
- familiarity breeds confidence. A true home ground is a place where the players have spent multiple years parking in the same place, making the same walk into the stadium, changing in the same seat, saying hi to the same staff etc etc which leads to a level of comfort and confidence in your surroundings which adds to helping the home advantage. We just wont quite have that here
- Pressure. We can potentially eradicate this if we start well at Wembley but if there are early slip ups there is going to be an added sense of fear that will travel from the fans down onto the pitch, will be a hot topic of discussion in the media narrative and will surely cascade down into the players thoughts. It could go bad. Early wins and we hopefully bypass this though.

To be honest, if we were at WHL again this season, I think it would be the year that a lot of the better pundits would struggle to not put us in the top four. With the Wembley factor, I do think they at least have a logical reason to ascertain that we might slip down a little.

In the end, I hope I am wrong with all of this.

As I've said, I don't think the Wembley issue is insurmountable, but I think it would be silly to suggest that its not going to make any sort of difference. I'm sure you could have a go at picking apart the list I wrote, but I think we will just have to agree to disagree on it. Home advantage is something which comes about due to thousands of small reasons, tangible and intangible, which add up to the overall net effect.
 
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