The stadium myth..

[bigfrooj]

My mate who went just messaged me: "Hour and a half to get there. Two and a half hours to get back - it takes an hour just to get to the tube because they filter you (necessarily, I realise) going back. Atmosphere is dead. The affordable seats are so high up it's like watching your favourite team of ants. I'm thinking I may give Spurs' season at Wembley a miss. Not a fun day out. (Obviously a good deal of my negativity here is due to us losing, but still...)"

Blimey that could have been me. My experience exactly. Its going to be a long season.

 

[aliyid]

My main concern isn't any stupid curse (I put that down to us having only played REALLY good teams at Wembley so far). I'm more worried that we'll be playing Burnley just one day after the Rugby League cup final...

Turf will be cut up everywhere harming our quick interplay and we'll probably still be able to see all the pitch markings over / under the football markings.

 

[teok]

To bring a bit of outside perspective:

http://www.football365.com/news/tottenham-1-2-chelsea-16-conclusions

* The danger for Tottenham is that a first home loss in 15 months is incorrectly diagnosed. The problem with the idea of a ‘Wembley curse’ is that it distracts from legitimate concerns.


Dele Alli was not so confused by the dimensions of the Wembley pitch that he was forced to foul David Luiz to concede a free-kick mere yards from the penalty area. Victor Wanyama was not so overawed by the Wembley arches that he first failed to control a ball, then neglected to track his runner. Hugo Lloris was not so fearful of Wembley losing its lustre that he was beaten at his near post. Mauricio Pochettino did not make the wrong substitutions because the half-time pies at White Hart Lane were better than the ones on offer at the national stadium. Tottenham’s squad does not still lack pace because Wembley is slightly more difficult to get to via public transport.


To declare that playing at Wembley is the root cause of this defeat is to neglect analysis of any actual issues. It is to overlook the fact that a new, slightly tweaked formation did not work. It is to disregard some insipid performances from important players. It is to ignore that there are deficiencies in the squad which were obvious throughout the summer, and have to be rectified in the next fortnight.


There is a reason Pochettino has emphatically denied on a number of occasions that playing at the national stadium is an issue for his players. Tottenham wish to be regarded as an elite club, or at the very least in the echelon just below. Said sides make a habit of winning at Wembley; they do not use it as an excuse for failure.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Dele Alli was not so confused by the dimensions of the Wembley pitch that he was forced to foul David Luiz to concede a free-kick mere yards from the penalty area. Victor Wanyama was not so overawed by the Wembley arches that he first failed to control a ball, then neglected to track his runner. Hugo Lloris was not so fearful of Wembley losing its lustre that he was beaten at his near post. Mauricio Pochettino did not make the wrong substitutions because the half-time pies at White Hart Lane were better than the ones on offer at the national stadium. Tottenham’s squad does not still lack pace because Wembley is slightly more difficult to get to via public transport.
.

True and not true, I believe.
The way larger pitch caused a possession obsessed team to very often be off timing-wise.
Large pitch -> inferior timing and connection as a team unit -> arriving too late to situations or missing out slightly -> making mistakes.

I think to navigate Wembley, Pochettino must consider putting possession on the back burner in order to save and manage energy consumption throughout the game.
Less possession -> fewer passes and movements -> better use of energy -> reduced risk of grave mistakes.

 

[Doctor Dinkey]

I think to navigate Wembley, Pochettino must consider putting possession on the back burner in order to save and manage energy consumption throughout the game.
Less possession -> fewer passes and movements -> better use of energy -> reduced risk of grave mistakes.

This.
For all the positive comments on here, I felt that we looked weaker than last year and lacking ideas when Chelsea defended deep.
If we're to avoid other days like this Poch needs to adjust and mix up our style of play. The press is less effective on the larger pitch.

 

[nailsy]

How does having less possession conserve energy? Surely you use more energy trying to win the ball back?

Was I the only one who thought it was a very slow pitch yesterday? There was no zip when passing the ball.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

This.
For all the positive comments on here, I felt that we looked weaker than last year and lacking ideas when Chelsea defended deep.
If we're to avoid other days like this Poch needs to adjust and mix up our style of play. The press is less effective on the larger pitch.

Exactly, I agree. Spurs fans have a long history of being seduced by possession, overlooking that the opponent might very well be in cruise control. "Chelsea hardly even saw the ball, we outplayed them". Chelsea didn't even want to have the ball. They wanted to win the match, which are two different concerns. Let Spurs do the running and the fiddling and the wasteful attempts. Force them into making mistakes, be ready to exploit said mistakes to the max, and seal the deal.

How does having less possession conserve energy? Surely you use more energy trying to win the ball back?

Was I the only one who thought it was a very slow pitch yesterday? There was no zip when passing the ball.

When you don't play for possession, you also don't have a feeling of need to win the ball back all the time because what are you to do with it? You don't play to win the ball back, you play to have the opponent make mistakes. That's the moment when you grab the ball and seize the day. It's a reverse way of being in control. Cruise control, as I call it, that Spurs fans very often fail to notice when it's deployed against Tottenham.

 

[talkshowhost86]

Genuinely don't think the pitch has anything to do with it.

We win that game nine times out of ten, and we were undone by a great free-kick and a couple of individual errors from Wanyama and Lloris. The pitch has nothing to do with that for me.

I know we want to go in to panic mode, but I genuinely don't think we need to worry. What we're missing is an alternative attacking threat, which meant that when Chelsea sat deep we were a bit stymied (despite actually creating a few chances anyway).

I think our lack of pace at full-back is worrying when Rose is out, and I think we lack an option to go a bit more direct (which is presumably why we're looking at someone like Martial), so hopefully Poch and Levy can address those issues in the next 10 days, but even if we don't sign anyone else, if we play like we did yesterday we will still win most of our games this season, Wembley or not.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Wisdom in hindsight from those claiming our style of football is inadequate or that we play to win possession rather than win games. The simple fact is that if Wanyama had not made the sort of schoolboy error plenty of players make on their first start of the season, we would not have lost, and the entire narrative would now be different.

Yes, he did make the mistake, and yes, we did lose because of it, and yes, it's about results , but that doesn't mean that we change the analysis of everything else that happened in the rest of the game because of one error.

 

[E17yid]

I'll be amazed if we get 10 league wins there this season and I'd absolutely bite your hand off if you offered me 10 home wins now. Will more than likely get around 7 or 8 with a lot of draws.

It's not that it's cursed or the fact we just don't look like ourselves there it's just a fucking shit stadium and I can't wait until we stop playing there.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

Wisdom in hindsight from those claiming our style of football is inadequate or that we play to win possession rather than win games. The simple fact is that if Wanyama had not made the sort of schoolboy error plenty of players make on their first start of the season, we would not have lost, and the entire narrative would now be different.

Yes, he did make the mistake, and yes, we did lose because of it, and yes, it's about results , but that doesn't mean that we change the analysis of everything else that happened in the rest of the game because of one error.

Dunno whether you are referring to me or somebody else, but for me, I held the same opinion about the match before the second goal. In fact, if anything, the second goal only served as a confirmation on the view I already held. They knew what they were doing, waiting for a grave mistake, being prompt and ready to exploit it.

 

[thebenjamin]

I'll be amazed if we get 10 league wins there this season and I'd absolutely bite your hand off if you offered me 10 home wins now. Will more than likely get around 7 or 8 with a lot of draws.

It's not that it's cursed or the fact we just don't look like ourselves there it's just a fucking shit stadium and I can't wait until we stop playing there.

Yeah that is the complete truth. With the exception of the Emirates it's the worst football stadium I've ever been to. In fact thinking about it you might have to say the Emirates is better because it's at least smaller. Wembley is just a conference centre with a bit of green outside space in the middle. It could not be more devoid of character and atmosphere.

 

[riggi]

Beer in one hand sunning myself in the Med .....watched game ofc.

No Drama.

Sounds the better option.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

Dunno whether you are referring to me or somebody else, but for me, I held the same opinion about the match before the second goal. In fact, if anything, the second goal only served as a confirmation on the view I already held. They knew what they were doing, waiting for a grave mistake, being prompt and ready to exploit it.

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. But yes, it probably includes you by the sound of it.

I'd prefer Tottenham to be the sort of team that plays aggressive attacking football rather than a defensive team that can't take the initiative and has to depend on the opposition making s mistake at some point.

Yes, we need to improve to beat teams who play negatively like Chelsea. But I do not believe that we were outplayed and out-thought yesterday. I think it was a genuinely close game between two of the very best sides in the country and the truth is it could have gone either way, it turned on a variety of events throughout the game, in many of which an element of random fortune (luck) was involved on either side, even if the result did turn out the way you expected in the end.

The outcome of a game decided by a single goal in which both sides were well matched and in which both sides hit the post can never be called predictable, and yes, I do believe it's wisdom in hindsight of anyone who believes it was, however sincerely they believe it.

 

[E17yid]

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. But yes, it probably includes you by the sound of it.

I'd prefer Tottenham to be the sort of team that plays aggressive attacking football rather than a defensive team that can't take the initiative and has to depend on the opposition making s mistake at some point.

Yes, we need to improve to beat teams who play negatively like Chelsea. But I do not believe that we were outplayed and out-thought yesterday. I think it was a genuinely close game between two of the very best sides in the country and the truth is it could have gone either way, it turned on a variety of events throughout the game, in many of which an element of random fortune (luck) was involved on either side, even if the result did turn out the way you expected in the end.

The outcome of a game decided by a single goal in which both sides were well matched and in which both sides hit the post can never be called predictable, and yes, I do believe it's wisdom in hindsight of anyone who believes it was, however sincerely they believe it.

I agree but we also can't ignore that Chelsea were missing Cahill, Fabregas and Hazard. Take Alli and Tobi out of our side yesterday and it could've been ugly.

 

[Led's Zeppelin]

I agree but we also can't ignore that Chelsea were missing Cahill, Fabregas and Hazard. Take Alli and Tobi out of our side yesterday and it could've been ugly.

Yes, but now we're into the unknown. Maybe Fabregas would have been sent off, maybe Cahill would have given away a free-kick just before Dele did....

 

[Drink!Drink!]

terrible stadium, a scandal that it cost so much money and yet was designed so badly

our supine, spineless sports journalists should call out wembley for what it is, the king is naked, why do they have to pretend it is a "special" venue?

 

[E17yid]

Yes, but now we're into the unknown. Maybe Fabregas would have been sent off, maybe Cahill would have given away a free-kick just before Dele did....

True, there's also the possibility we would've played better if their big guns were on.

At the end of the day playing a whole season of away games is going to hurt us.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

I wasn't referring to anyone specifically. But yes, it probably includes you by the sound of it.

I'd prefer Tottenham to be the sort of team that plays aggressive attacking football rather than a defensive team that can't take the initiative and has to depend on the opposition making s mistake at some point.

Yes, we need to improve to beat teams who play negatively like Chelsea. But I do not believe that we were outplayed and out-thought yesterday. I think it was a genuinely close game between two of the very best sides in the country and the truth is it could have gone either way, it turned on a variety of events throughout the game, in many of which an element of random fortune (luck) was involved on either side, even if the result did turn out the way you expected in the end.

The outcome of a game decided by a single goal in which both sides were well matched and in which both sides hit the post can never be called predictable, and yes, I do believe it's wisdom in hindsight of anyone who believes it was, however sincerely they believe it.

Ah, well. First of all. I agree with you 100% that Chelsea didn't outplay us. However, repeatedly over the last 18 hours I've read that we outplayed them. That view I am countering happily, because I simply do not think it is true. I firmly believe that plenty of Spurs fans don't recognise when we have loads of possession against a highly capable team not because we played so goodarn good, but because they chose to not contend us for possession. It was a tactical choice of theirs, IMO, to let us be in control of the ball, and wait out our mistakes. That distinction, to me, is very important, because it brings some nuances to this notion that we played so very good. Really, we didn't. Loads of players did loads wrong, and they did not look like that team unit that they can be. So as far as outwitted goes, I very much do hold the belief that Chelsea outwitted us, bridged with, as you are alluding to, a bit of dumb luck, too.

 

[theShiznit]

Didn't see it mentioned on Sky yesterday.
Did we break the attendance record?