Tim Sherwood admits Tottenham paid price for West Ham red card

[slartibartfast]

Heres my opinion for what its worth.
You know, or you bloody well should (especially after already being beaten twice this season) that playing against West Ham they are a kick bollock n bite team who are going to hoof high balls up to Caroll.
Therefore playing a) no defensive midfielder b) playing a high line, is probably .ot a good idea.
But TS hasnt learnt.
Owen said in commentry playin high line was the best way to deal with Caroll. I disagree because unfortunately Caroll isnt the only Wham player on the bloody pitch.
Just have a look through how many goals we've conceded because of it. One through ball into space and youve had it.
It makes no sense to me.
Can anyone seriously tell me they thought we were going to win with that team selection because I what I thought would happen did happen and Ive got the managerial experience of a Sat pub team.
To suggest the red card was the reason we were shit is papering over the cracks. We may have got a draw at best imo.
The only positive is other than pride it meant f all and the season is nearly over.
How you can be so experienced at the highest level and yet seem so stupid is mind boggling.
And if Chelsea really wanna pay 27m for Paulinho I drive him there myself. Defensively shit. Creatively shit. Just bimbles around in the middle of the pitch like he's stoned. Not a fan. We cant (wont now so mute point really) keep playing people hoping they may finally show us something decent.
This is definately the kind of progress I expected after sacking Harry. A great step forward and a masterstroke by Levy.
NEXT!!!
Apologies for rant. Bit annoyed.

 

[rupsmith]

Now that the dust has settled. A quick analysis of the game:

Until Kaboul was sent off, we had held them easily at arm's length and were beginning to find space in their final third.

A problem that clearly has to be dealt with though is how exposed Rose is when Eriksen plays on that flank. Eriksen is a brilliant brilliant footballer but he is not athletic enough to track back and support him, particularly when he has to cut inside to influence play. Managers better than Tim has struggled with this - example, the sale of Mata and the public criticism of Hazard at Chelsea. Either you need a brilliant full back or a good combination.

The ball over the top to Downing was a deflection past our very high line. Rose was caught out. Kaboul couldnt stop. That has nothing to do with team selection or tactical set up. That was football. Sometimes people have to understand that. Before we could bring Chiriches on, the own goal was scored.

The free kick goal was a farce. But again not something you can blame on team selection or tactical set up.

For me, the second half was decent, we didnt back down. It was good to see Robbie kicking out.

For me, whether or not we get the Dutch contingent that will win us the league by December, we need a few things in descending order of priority:

- better full backs - much better full backs, with very strong engines and physiques. Not sure whom but IMO Naughton is not good enough and Rose is too young and positionally inconsistent. They both gave the ball away far too many times in decent build up positions and the quality of their deliveries in the final third are very very poor. Not sure who the alternatives are but these poitions are very very important.

- the centre of midfield make up - Tim wants two types in the middle, a Carrick/Modric - an assist the assister - a guy who can move the ball to Eriksen and Lennon very very quickly. Luka kept it and gave it to Bale, VDV in an instant. Mousa takes too much time, so does Paulinho. Then the attacker, the Siggy, Chadli who can arrive in the box and score - they are both decent and will score if we improve our flank play and the quick movement of the ball by the other half of the middle.

- Paulinho IMO can leave - he is not premier league material. That is not quality but desire, bite and the quickness of the movement of the ball into attacking areas. Maybe he needs Mourinho to make him like Willian.

- a steady strong experienced "leader" centreback or Kaboul to make sure he is not injured anymore - a strong pre season. Verts to either commit or to go.

- Sandro is a good lad clearly, but he is like Wilson Palacios, can get stuck in and the player we need to make sure we win the ball back. But he wont have a place when we have a philosophy of ball retention and players who can adhere to that - Dembele, Chadli, Siggy, Benteleb (who is going to be a great player next year), Carrol, Winks etc. That is the philosophy which Tim clearly wants to adhere to and i'm sure the messiah FDB will want to as well. He gives the ball away far too much and people who watch him throw his body on the line forget that.

Robbie Soldado - I really really like him but it may be that he is in the Paulinho bucket. Technically brilliant but no team in the league is going to give him easy goals like he would have in the bottom half in Spain. Tim has got him increasing his work ethic but his lack of ariel ability means that he has to develop a plan B to his game. Its been a tough year for him. I think Kane and him will develop a good partnership but Im not sure.

We have a good nucleus. A decent 6th place finish and some more better quality creation from the flanks would mean the goals flowing in.

COYS

 

[avonspurs]

Now that the dust has settled. A quick analysis of the game:

Until Kaboul was sent off, we had held them easily at arm's length and were beginning to find space in their final third.

A problem that clearly has to be dealt with though is how exposed Rose is when Eriksen plays on that flank. Eriksen is a brilliant brilliant footballer but he is not athletic enough to track back and support him, particularly when he has to cut inside to influence play. Managers better than Tim has struggled with this - example, the sale of Mata and the public criticism of Hazard at Chelsea. Either you need a brilliant full back or a good combination.

The ball over the top to Downing was a deflection past our very high line. Rose was caught out. Kaboul couldnt stop. That has nothing to do with team selection or tactical set up. That was football. Sometimes people have to understand that. Before we could bring Chiriches on, the own goal was scored.

The free kick goal was a farce. But again not something you can blame on team selection or tactical set up.

For me, the second half was decent, we didnt back down. It was good to see Robbie kicking out.

For me, whether or not we get the Dutch contingent that will win us the league by December, we need a few things in descending order of priority:

- better full backs - much better full backs, with very strong engines and physiques. Not sure whom but IMO Naughton is not good enough and Rose is too young and positionally inconsistent. They both gave the ball away far too many times in decent build up positions and the quality of their deliveries in the final third are very very poor. Not sure who the alternatives are but these poitions are very very important.

- the centre of midfield make up - Tim wants two types in the middle, a Carrick/Modric - an assist the assister - a guy who can move the ball to Eriksen and Lennon very very quickly. Luka kept it and gave it to Bale, VDV in an instant. Mousa takes too much time, so does Paulinho. Then the attacker, the Siggy, Chadli who can arrive in the box and score - they are both decent and will score if we improve our flank play and the quick movement of the ball by the other half of the middle.

- Paulinho IMO can leave - he is not premier league material. That is not quality but desire, bite and the quickness of the movement of the ball into attacking areas. Maybe he needs Mourinho to make him like Willian.

- a steady strong experienced "leader" centreback or Kaboul to make sure he is not injured anymore - a strong pre season. Verts to either commit or to go.

- Sandro is a good lad clearly, but he is like Wilson Palacios, can get stuck in and the player we need to make sure we win the ball back. But he wont have a place when we have a philosophy of ball retention and players who can adhere to that - Dembele, Chadli, Siggy, Benteleb (who is going to be a great player next year), Carrol, Winks etc. That is the philosophy which Tim clearly wants to adhere to and i'm sure the messiah FDB will want to as well. He gives the ball away far too much and people who watch him throw his body on the line forget that.

Robbie Soldado - I really really like him but it may be that he is in the Paulinho bucket. Technically brilliant but no team in the league is going to give him easy goals like he would have in the bottom half in Spain. Tim has got him increasing his work ethic but his lack of ariel ability means that he has to develop a plan B to his game. Its been a tough year for him. I think Kane and him will develop a good partnership but Im not sure.

We have a good nucleus. A decent 6th place finish and some more better quality creation from the flanks would mean the goals flowing in.

COYS

Its good to know that nothing ever seems to be down to tactics or player selection or team style.... I wonder why we even bother with a manager.

 

[Danners9]

Its good to know that nothing ever seems to be down to tactics or player selection or team style.... I wonder why we even bother with a manager.

if they sack him before sunday, we can find out with a real life example

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Very poor. TS has had 5months now, 5mths to get his system onto the pitch. He hasn't; reason why? He has no system. It's pick 11 players and hope for the best, hope to out score the opponents. There's a reason why he has the highest loss percentage of our recent managers - because it's all or nothing. And if we don't get the goals, or Eriksen isn't hitting those wonderful free kicks, then we get nothing.

We've gone from one extreme (AVB=system is everything) to the other. We ne someone in the middle. Sooner we get that person in, the better.

That you Daniel?




I would be very surprised if LVG, FDB or Jesus H Christ would have us playing much better in five months after taking over a team in mid-season. Though it does appear that Poyet and Pulis have managed to save their respective relegation fodder.

If Spurs finish in a possible EL place, it would be about right given the circumstances, injuries, and poor player purchases last summer. Oh and we still have to see that thirty million pound Sicknote make a run of games.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

I think most people can quite clearly remember how in the last two games we've played both against ten men and with ten men yet been comfortably second best on both occasions.

And there i was thinking that it's goals that won games and not the amount of skill, or players participating. Stupid me.

You no doubt were not at Old Trafford when we won under AVB. That second half proves just how wrong your theory actually is whether we played with ten, eleven, or twelve men.

 

[rupsmith]

Its good to know that nothing ever seems to be down to tactics or player selection or team style.... I wonder why we even bother with a manager.

Can you please explain how the Kaboul sending off and Paulinho and Ade doing a red sea impression was down to management deficiencies. I am genuinely curious

 

[slartibartfast]

Can you please explain how the Kaboul sending off and Paulinho and Ade doing a red sea impression was down to management deficiencies. I am genuinely curious

Mind if I have a crack?
The continued high defensive line is costing us goals nearly every bloody game yet we still persist with it. That is down to TS. Whether the ball was deflected or not.
I would imagine we practice walls in training wouldnt you? And I would also imagine those two if in the wall would still jump out the way like a couple of girls. Can he not suggest, as we do at grass roots football, that you lock arms so you dont pull away like a fuckin girl or even better, put a wall together with some balls (no offence ladies).
To me we look like we do no training what so ever defensively.
Remeber few games back when we had 3 in a wall and one of them was fuckin Lennon???? I mean seriously wtf?
I put this down to us being so disorganised we havent actually got a system in place to decide whose in the wall, we just pick whoevers nearest to the bloody ball and make it up as we go along.
If Im right thats piss poor on TS part.
If Im wrong thats piss poor on TS part because wtf is Lennon doing in a wall and why hasnt he made them hold each other in place.
The buck stops with TS any way you look at it.
Watch Villa hit us on the counter. They have serious pace and we'll still, like yesterday, have our 2 cbs sitting 5yds in the oppositions half with our full backs even further forward. Shambolic.
If you wanna beat spurs just keep pinging the ball into the last third and we'll f it up ourselves. Even down to 10 men we were still trying to pass our way out from the back while obviously under pressure and getting in a right mess.
Glad to help lol

 

[rupsmith]

Mind if I have a crack?
The continued high defensive line is costing us goals nearly every bloody game yet we still persist with it. That is down to TS. Whether the ball was deflected or not.
I would imagine we practice walls in training wouldnt you? And I would also imagine those two if in the wall would still jump out the way like a couple of girls. Can he not suggest, as we do at grass roots football, that you lock arms so you dont pull away like a fuckin girl or even better, put a wall together with some balls (no offence ladies).
To me we look like we do no training what so ever defensively.
Remeber few games back when we had 3 in a wall and one of them was fuckin Lennon???? I mean seriously wtf?
I put this down to us being so disorganised we havent actually got a system in place to decide whose in the wall, we just pick whoevers nearest to the bloody ball and make it up as we go along.
If Im right thats piss poor on TS part.
If Im wrong thats piss poor on TS part because wtf is Lennon doing in a wall and why hasnt he made them hold each other in place.
The buck stops with TS any way you look at it.
Watch Villa hit us on the counter. They have serious pace and we'll still, like yesterday, have our 2 cbs sitting 5yds in the oppositions half with our full backs even further forward. Shambolic.
Glad to help lol

So the high line against basically Andy Carrol is tactically naive? Hmm. So your solution would have been to play a deep line against Andy Carrol?

And as for walls in training. An instant human reaction by Ade and Paulinho to get their balls out of the way is basically down to Tim Sherwood?

Mate why don't you just say "Sherwood out" and stop trying to justify it with total nonsense.

Oh and maybe I'm too old for this and have to understand the evolution of online communication but - LOL LOL LOL. Happy to respond

 

[slartibartfast]

So the high line against basically Andy Carrol is tactically naive? Hmm. So your solution would have been to play a deep line against Andy Carrol?

And as for walls in training. An instant human reaction by Ade and Paulinho to get their balls out of the way is basically down to Tim Sherwood?

Mate why don't you just say "Sherwood out" and stop trying to justify it with total nonsense.

Oh and maybe I'm too old for this and have to understand the evolution of online communication but - LOL LOL LOL. Happy to respond

You asked how this was the managers fault, I answered.
It doesnt matter if the freekick was heading straight at his bollocks you dont move out the bloody way and if your implying they stand like statues in the wall during training but both on this occasion moved then I aint buying it.
And as Ive said earlier, Andy Carroll is not the only Wham player so a high line will cost you.
Im not saying dont push up and sit deep but leaving our half of the pitch empty is stupid imo.
Sherwood will be gone no matter what my opinion but from what Ive seen he doesnt know what he's doing.
You dont go away from home against a team youve already lost to twice this season and play 4 attacking midfielders and 2 up front. Its bloody stupid.
Do you think that team selection was a good one? Maybe that wasnt his fault either.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

So the high line against basically Andy Carrol is tactically naive? Hmm. So your solution would have been to play a deep line against Andy Carrol?

And as for walls in training. An instant human reaction by Ade and Paulinho to get their balls out of the way is basically down to Tim Sherwood?

Mate why don't you just say "Sherwood out" and stop trying to justify it with total nonsense.

Oh and maybe I'm too old for this and have to understand the evolution of online communication but - LOL LOL LOL. Happy to respond

This is what we needed. Tim could have rolled one of these out surely?

 

[rupsmith]

You asked how this was the managers fault, I answered.
It doesnt matter if the freekick was heading straight at his bollocks you dont move out the bloody way and if your implying they stand like statues in the wall during training but both on this occasion moved then I aint buying it.
And as Ive said earlier, Andy Carroll is not the only Wham player so a high line will cost you.
Im not saying dont push up and sit deep but leaving our half of the pitch empty is stupid imo.
Sherwood will be gone no matter what my opinion but from what Ive seen he doesnt know what he's doing.
You dont go away from home against a team youve already lost to twice this season and play 4 attacking midfielders and 2 up front. Its bloody stupid.
Do you think that team selection was a good one? Maybe that wasnt his fault either.

A high line cost us because of a deflection and not because of West Hams obvious pace which Tim missed.

So you still haven't clarified what you mean by "he doesn't know what he's doing" even though you want him out.

As for having lost to them, it's not because they are a better team. We lost under AVB and in Tim's first or second game in charge. For this game I explained why the team selection is a reflection of a philosophy of ball retention but you haven't read that. We would have beaten them with this team but for the sending off. Remember that lightning break which Ade should have done better with?

LOL LOL LOL - is that the new "Regards"?

 

[slartibartfast]

A high line cost us because of a deflection and not because of West Hams obvious pace which Tim missed.

So you still haven't clarified what you mean by "he doesn't know what he's doing" even though you want him out.

As for having lost to them, it's not because they are a better team. We lost under AVB and in Tim's first or second game in charge. For this game I explained why the team selection is a reflection of a philosophy of ball retention but you haven't read that. We would have beaten them with this team but for the sending off. Remember that lightning break which Ade should have done better with?

LOL LOL LOL - is that the new "Regards"?

We'll have to disagree because I dont think we would have won.
I thought picking imo the wrong team and sticking players who are 3ft 10" in the wall explained why I think he doesnt know what he's doing.
Or you could have playing away to Liverpool with no defensive midfielder and 2 up front. Or publically arguing with Sandro and saying our players are much of a muchness. Do you need more?
I never said they're the better team. Thats the point. And I'll repeat myself, the fact that the high line cost us via a deflection is irrelevant. IT STILL COST US. And it IS down to pace when your defenders are bloody so high up the pitch they end up chasing someone theyre never going to catch. What was that if it wasnt pace?

 

[nightgoat]

And there i was thinking that it's goals that won games and not the amount of skill, or players participating. Stupid me.

You no doubt were not at Old Trafford when we won under AVB. That second half proves just how wrong your theory actually is whether we played with ten, eleven, or twelve men.

One, you're confusing this season with last season. Two, you're confusing a good defensive performance with an inept overall performance. Three, you can only get so far playing awfully every game before you get found out/your luck runs out.

 

[Greenspur]

Only lost 2-0 this time. Away with ten men for 3/4 of the game.
Massive improvement on the AVB borefest at the lane ;-)

Why mention AVB? No matter what happened under him, it does not change the fact that Sherwood's formation was either naive or arrogant - or maybe just stupid.

 

[Greenspur]

(Jesus,Siggy and Paulinho as our two CM!).

That's three (unless we were expecting a miracle)!!!

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Why mention AVB? No matter what happened under him, it does not change the fact that Sherwood's formation was either naive or arrogant - or maybe just stupid.

It was a joke.
You have less of a sense of humour than my misses.

 

[Greenspur]

It was a joke.
You have less of a sense of humour than my misses.

Are they your daughters?
How about your missus? Has she a sense of humour?