Tim Sherwood: I would have got Champions League place

Discussion in 'Spurscommunity Front Page News' started by mawspurs, May 11, 2014.

  • by mawspurs, May 11, 2014 at 9:07 PM
  • mawspurs

    mawspurs Staff Staff

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    Tottenham boss Tim Sherwood says his team would have earned a Champions League spot if he had been in charge all season.

    Read the full article at BBC
     
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Comments

Discussion in 'Spurscommunity Front Page News' started by mawspurs, May 11, 2014.

  1. rupsmith
    I was referring to this particular person considering TS to be unbearable as the reason to get rid of him. I merely pointed out that bearability was a matter of subjectivity - an assessment of which one can only make when he speaks to the media (unless they know him personally)- and should not be a basis for a managerial appointment.

    I then pointed out that the decision should be based on results and performance, and in that context, we should be grateful for what he has done and owe him our thanks whether he stays or not.
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  2. UbeAstard
    I don't know what the truth of all these reported TS statements is. Here is another

    http://t.sport.uk.msn.com/football/sherwood-laments-bale-departure

    were he is reported to have said we were never going to get into the top 4 anyway after Bale has left. Is he coming out with all these conflicting statements or is the press massaging comments?
  3. Lufti
    Are you joking? This particular person said it as a half jokey line at the of his post in a hypothetical situation. I didn't say he IS unbearable, but rather that in a hypothetical situation, where someone else becomes manager and Tim stays on in another role, he'd be very irritating behind the scenes (a joke based on truths). Afterall, he's already been giving it all the 'I'm a hard act to follow', so if a manager doesn't have as high a win percentage as him while they try and build something, one could imagine Tim will be back there saying how he did a better job.
  4. rupsmith
    Fair enough.

    A final request. Can you please just list out what these reasons actually are, so that I know why people are so adamant that he has done such a poor job. I am genuinely baffled. I can fully understand why some people will dislike him (not because they know him but how he comes across in the media) but I want to know why they think he has screwed up his job.

    As for the "I suppose I will get" etc. I've only said it once before and In this post I was pointing out that I think the nature of responses I get are not analytical type but the "your view is rubbish", "Tim is an idiot" type of response
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  5. Roynie
    OK, I misunderstood what you were getting at and thought you were talking about us being left exposed by the opponents FB, which has happened, particularly when Naughton was being played as LB. To be fair Parker was excellent at that and I remember him covering Walker a number of times in different games.

    I seem to recall TS saying that he doesn't believe in just one player being DM as the Centre mids should cover each other, i.e. when one goes forward the other stays back so at times one or the other is DM. Whether they understood that or were disciplined enough to understand that is a different matter, but that may well have been what TS was getting at in some of his rants.

    It must be borne in mind that TS was, quite obviously a stop gap and is not a qualified coach. That said I think he has done better than many on here are giving him credit for and I feel that he is being blamed for his own appointment. Stats don't tell the full story but just looking at that aspect of his tenure they are not bad. Yes we got tonked by the top 4, but we were under AVB as well. We were certainly more adventurous under TS and it is quite possible that, with a good month or more pre-season on the training ground he would have the time to put across his ideas.

    All that said I would prefer FDB!
  6. avonspurs
    No, I won't list them because you and I have already discussed some of these before (am I that forgettable? ;). Don't answer that lol).
  7. rupsmith
    Ok. Now you know why most discussions end with a " ok let's agree to disagree ". So let's agree to disagree.

    Btw you are not forgettable at all. It's some the other posters who leave me a bit confused
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  8. rupsmith
    Ok apologies then, then I guess I misunderstood the comment.

    My observation on the assessments on this site that are subject to subjectivity remains but obviously does not apply to your original post.
  9. avonspurs
    Yes, you're right: he said he expects defenders to defend, attackers to attack and midfielders to do both. In that case, he should play midfielders that can do both but when he plays, for example, Siggy and Paulinho at Spammers away.....well, that's just asking for trouble, IMO. We saw yesterday that, when we play a midfielder who breaks up play (Sandro), it allows the other midfielder (Paulinho) to be more of a forward threat. When we don't have that kind of player in there, we tend to get a mish-mash of the two (defending/attacking) which leads to neither being effective.

    I don't concur with this time argument either. For the last few mths, hes had only one game a week. If that doesnt give someone time to get their ideas across on the training ground, then a preseason won't. My belief, from watching our games and listening to him speak, is that TS has very limited ideas (in terms of systems) and I just don't believe he knows any more than that. The games haven't shown me anything different.

    You are right: we are more adventurous under TS, in terms of goals scored. And he should be applauded for that. As he should be for bringing in some youngsters (although I do question his management of this). However, his underlying skills, is just not enough for me to think he warrants his position.

    As for who takes his place...... That's a whole other issue ;)
  10. avonspurs
    Agree. I think, on both sides, there are people with entrenched arguments for and against TS. One thing I will say about TS is that he has certainly split the fans more than any other manager I have known at Spurs. That's some achievement :)
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  11. Greenspur
    I would agree, if only he wouldn't constantly talk about how great he is.
  12. Greenspur
    When you say "You guys", to whom are you referring?
  13. OnTheUp
    Completely agree it's hard to see other manager will have that same win ratio with half a season gone next year
    TS isn't being judged on his results. If he was, how can sacking a manager with the clubs highest Premier League win ratio be justified?

    For those saying half a season isn't a long enough time to judge, then why are we so unwilling to give him any more time when many fans would have given AVB all the time in the world?

    Like I said, TS isn't being judged on results. Strange bunch Spurs fans!
  14. avonspurs
    Some people wouldn't like Mourinho as manager despite the fact that, I am sure, he would have a high win percentage. There is more to managing a club than just pure results and people - plenty of people - have explained reasons why they don't want TS as the manager.
  15. Roynie
    Well I must say you've picked the right game to question his selection. Even the optimist in me thought it could only go one way against Wet Sham, and I don't think the issue was one of injuries either. I agree that yesterday proved the point about a DM and it proved the point, I think even to TS! Does that make a point that he does learn? I certainly believe that we should have a DM to protect the back 4. I think that TS has had a huge learning curve during his tenure and I just feel he has the potential to be a really good manager, it's just a question of how long it would take. The answer is only time will tell, but for now let's get someone in of the ilk of FDB who has experience and is prepared to bring appropriate youngsters through from the youffs!
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  16. OnTheUp
    That's fine, I just find a lot those reasons odd and just because a lot of people think it doesn't make it right. Football is a game, the purpose of which it is to win. For some reason though, the success starved fans of this club hates managers who have the confidence/arrogance to say things like Tim did here, despite the stats showing he is right (maybe, I haven't checked but he can't be far wrong).

    The anti-Sherwood brigade will get there scalp, but when you look at the available likely replacements there isn't anybody who stands out head and shoulders above what we already have.

    Matinez/Pochetino? Meh - Good young mid-table managers in the Prem but are hardly worl beaters and have been around longer than TS.

    Frank de Boar? Again, Meh - Great player achieving moderate success in a second rate league...Ajax are nowhere near the superpower they used to be.

    It's funny how you don't see any of the other top clubs rushing to replace their managers with these guys.
  17. avonspurs
    No, you are right, just because a lot of people think it, does not make it right. It doesn't make it wrong either. Football is a game of opinions. Obviously, you want something different from a manager then I do. I want success, but I also want a manager who represents me, as a fan. Sherwood doesn't do that. He does for you, clearly, which is fine.

    I want a manager that keeps issues with players behind doors. He doesn't do that.

    I want a manager that tactically changes things - I haven't seen that with Sherwood. And a manager that has a clear system, geared towards getting the most from our players - TS hasn't got that, IMO.

    Yeah, we've won points (he does, indeed, have the highest winning percentage of our recent PL managers - - I'm sure he has said something along the same lines ;)) and I applaud him for that. He also has the highest loss percentage too. Also, I've not been to many of his games where I have been impressed with our play.

    Like I said above, its a game full of opinions (otherwise this forum would be boring) :)
  18. Roynie
    As you say, it's a game full of onions! If I see the team playing really badly, with no real passion and as if they couldn't give a toss then I want to know that the manager acknowledges that and that he is going to tell them so. I agree he shouldn't single out players individually, in public, for a bollocking, that just wrong. But to say they surrendered too easily and we were shite is fair comment, IMHO.
  19. postigol
    Good post, but Sherwood made his comments AFTER he left the club, Sandro made his whilst still at the club - there's a world of difference between those 2.
  20. Lufti
    The other difference being what they actually said. Sandro said that Sherwood will be sacked, presumably going by what he's heard in the media, whilst also keeping his opinion out of it. Sherwood said Hoddle should be sacked, claiming he doesn't think he's good enough.

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