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Time for Bale to take Centre Stage

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
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Gareth Bale is a fantastic player but as his ability to produce goals and assists increases, so does his tendency to frustrate us fans. Bale needed to move away from the left flank if he was going to move his game on to the ‘world class’ level, but now he needs to move upfront for our sake as much as his.

Bale could play for any team in the world. Those naysayers who did not recognise the progress the Welshman made last season, those who said he had a fine six months and nothing more, have been made to eat their words. His end product is there in the nine goals and eight assists in the league this season – and anyone who has caught more than highlights of Spurs this season will know he has created many, many more chances than those eight assists would suggest.

He has become the focal point of the Spurs attack, even the Tottenham team as a whole as others have loss form and fitness. With the brighter spotlight though has come a bigger ego. It would be wrong to say Bale is arrogant, or particularly selfish, but as Bale’s star has rose so has his feeling of responsibility and need to be involved in Tottenham’s attacks, and only their attacks.

He couldn’t spend his life on the left wing, where teams could neutralise him if they doubled or tripled up on him, but Bale’s wandering sees the team’s shape go to pot. The team becomes narrow, the centre becomes congested, Benoit Assou-Ekotto finds no outlet for balls up the line, Modric cannot find the space to operate nor can he link up with Bale down the left channel. Van der Vaart either gets shunted to the right or finds his space behind the striker encroached.

As we apparently can’t play 4-4-2 anymore (if only there was some guy who could give instructions to the players that would enable them to adapt to most if not all formations) and to allow Bale to roam, we play with one striker and either van der Vaart coming in from the right or forced to play deeper. Problem there is that when Bale does get the ball and put a cross in, we lack numbers in the box.

Then in defence, well, Bale doesn’t do defence anymore. He is all about attack, he is about scoring and creating and making a difference. He is about headlines, and he is one of the reasons, not the only one by a long shot, but one of the reasons we are so open.

Bale doesn’t track back most of the time, and when he does defend he is more interested in the opposing full back – only coming deep if the full back is getting forward, otherwise he is eyeing up the space he will attack on the counter. He leaves Benny one on one, leaves the central midfielders to deal with their counterparts, even if they are outnumbered.

In isolation there is nothing wrong with this, but in a team with a lacklustre Modric, players like Lennon and van der Vaart who aren’t that interested in getting behind the ball at the best of times, offensive and often overrun full backs, and a creaking centre defence, Bale’s detachment from the defensive unit merely compounds our problems.

The answer is simple. Gareth Bale is not a full back. Gareth Bale is not a wing back. Gareth Bale is someone you only play on the left side of a four man midfield if you expect to completely dominate. Gareth Bale is no longer a left winger who can play left midfield, he is a left winger who can play upfront.

When we play 3 forwards, he plays nominally on the left. When we go with two upfront he is the man who runs the channels, looks for balls over the top, comes deep, turns and runs. He creates, he scores. And when we play one upfront, maybe with VDV behind, he is that lone striker.

He has blistering pace, he is strong in the air, he can beat players on the outside and the inside, when he wants to be he can be physically strong, he can smack the ball with his left, and his right isn’t too bad. He will make runs, look to score, and has the stamina to keep doing it all game long.

When we talk about the need for a top class striker, could Bale be the answer? Imagine a forward line of him and Adebayor – pace, power, technical ability, and plenty of goal threat. In a way, it is similar to the evolution of Lionel Messi: from the wing to the centre. And if he isn’t going to get back to help the team defend, play him in a position where we don’t need him to come back.

Another plus point is that with his ability he could play with Adebayor; he would bring the physical and aerial attributes that would make him a good partner for Defoe; he has the technical ability and pace to link up with van der Vaart.

Playing as a striker doesn’t stop him coming wide onto the left and ripping apart a full back, but he is playing (and talking) as if he is a player in the same vein as Ronaldo or Messi and the sooner the team is setup to accommodate this the more solid we will look.

The obvious question is who plays left midfield but there are options – Kranjcar, Pienaar, Townsend (next season), Rose, Lennon at a push, and we could always dip into the transfer market. It will be easier and cheaper to find a hard working left sided midfielder than the twenty goal-a-season striker Bale will become.
 

mawspurs

Staff
Jun 29, 2003
35,103
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Who replaces him in midfield? He's growing into a world class midfielder and we don't have anybody else as good as him to fill the hole he would leave in midfield. So do we buy a midfielder and move him forward or do we just buy a true forward to lead the line? I know which i would do.
 

nayimfrom50

Active Member
Dec 31, 2006
336
305
Well thought through and well argued.. But I couldn't disagree more if I tried. Bale is, at times, devastating and, at times, works class but only when he has room behind a full back. He is a winger. An out and out left winger who will terrorise teams in that role for years to come. Every team we play will need to change tactics to deal with him thus creating more room for others, even if he has an off day.
His strength is his pace. He does not (yet) have the guile and cunning to be a player who can make it happen through the middle. Think about Maicon, thinks about the only moments of promise against Chelsea... He knocked it passed the defender and legged it. Devastating. Unplayable. Would you really take that away? There is never that kind of room up front other wise Walcott would play then and Agbolongor would actually be good.
Also, can you ever recall Ferge asking Ryan Giggs to come off the left wing when he was in his prime? No, he has chalk on his boots for 15 years
 

DreadySpur

Well-Known Member
Dec 15, 2006
1,037
642
Personally I feel it is his sense of self-importance that has grown as his star has risen as opposed to responsibility. You certainly make good points and playing hime through the middle is certainly an option and one that I have thought about in the past, however I think the real point that needs to be addressed until he is formally made a forward is this increased tendency to roam. Giggs made his name as a winger when played in that position predominantly stayed there and currently Valencia is earning rave reviews and lots of credit for his wing play AND work-rate. Bales most effective game recently was against Swansea where he stayed wide and gave the rest of the midfield space to operate. I think he needs to put his ego away and stay wide, for the benefit of the team.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
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Fantastic article in terms of turning Bale into one of the best players in the world.

Anyone that thinks he should hug the touchline, clearly believes he is nothing more than a high class , pacy andy Sinton. He is so much more. And he can be so much more still,

When he stayed wide for the whole of the last season, he didn't get a kick for 50% of the latter half, because our management did not know how to work him into the game.

This year he sees much more of the ball, and still gets it out wide on occasion beause there is more room there.

He needs to be taught when to run with it, when to pass, and how to get on the ball in dangerous areas and not 40 yards from goal.

Unfortunately, we do not have the coaching staff or manager to turn him into that next level of player.

If Bale goes to Barca or Real, or we bring in Txiki Begiristain, or Jose Mourinho, then Bale will become top 5 in the world.

Stick with Harry and he'll continue to be exciting, a gamewinner, but ultimately not clinical enough to be put in the bracket of Ronaldo and Messi.
 

nate247

Member
Jul 31, 2005
177
71
Funnily enough, about 6 months ago me and the old man were saying that he ought to be put up front to see what he can do. Less we not forget Van Persie started really as a left winger and likewise Henry. Obviously pain's me to bring up those two names but I must say I think as a winger Bale blows too hot and cold (largely because of defenses doubling up etc).

I'd say either attacking full back or experimentally up front could be his best positions. He has a very Ronaldo esk physique in that he is strong, athletic, good in the air and likewise can strike a ball very well. We often don't get to see the best of that side of his game either.

I agree with the OP's article... try him up front as let's face facts, none of our forwards have been that prolific this season and it's been our lack of goals in recent times that have been the problem.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
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Also, can you ever recall Ferge asking Ryan Giggs to come off the left wing when he was in his prime? No, he has chalk on his boots for 15 years

Thats possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Giggs and Beckham had immense work rate. They were playing 4-4-2 for those years. And always played with forwards with intelligent good movement. As opposed to Defoe, who has zero intelligent anything.

Giggs has also proved he can play anywhere you like.

Ever watched the amount of times Irwin, Evra, overlapped over the years as Giggs took the full back inside? So basic I cry it needs to be spelt out.
 

avonspurs

MoPo's lover
Apr 28, 2006
4,072
4,100
Fantastic article in terms of turning Bale into one of the best players in the world.

Anyone that thinks he should hug the touchline, clearly believes he is nothing more than a high class , pacy andy Sinton. He is so much more. And he can be so much more still,

When he stayed wide for the whole of the last season, he didn't get a kick for 50% of the latter half, because our management did not know how to work him into the game.

This year he sees much more of the ball, and still gets it out wide on occasion beause there is more room there.

He needs to be taught when to run with it, when to pass, and how to get on the ball in dangerous areas and not 40 yards from goal.

Unfortunately, we do not have the coaching staff or manager to turn him into that next level of player.

If Bale goes to Barca or Real, or we bring in Txiki Begiristain, or Jose Mourinho, then Bale will become top 5 in the world.

Stick with Harry and he'll continue to be exciting, a gamewinner, but ultimately not clinical enough to be put in the bracket of Ronaldo and Messi.

Agree with this. I mentioned HR's tactics, or lack of, in another thread but you raise it here too and its a valid point. I think he should stick to the wing because, at the moment, we are unable to adapt to anything else and, therefore, it not only neutralises his potency but the team as a whole. Another (better?) manager would see him being double-marked and use it to our advantage, play on it to our benefit - I dont see HR doing that.

If he moved inside, another (better?) manager would tactically change to accommodate that if thats what he has asked Bale to do. At the very least, he should be saying to other team members if Bale comes inside, I need you to do 'x' or 'y' - again, I dont see that. I see Bale coming in to an already crowded midfield and leaving a great big left-hand sided hole.

I dont have any answers to this but, hey, I'm not paid £1m+ p/y or have 30yrs+ management experience to have them - HR should have. My concern is that he doesnt.

I mentioned Mourinho in the other thread and I mention him again - can anyone truly see Mourinho not having a plan to capitalise on Bale's skills? Or to have a plan in place when he comes inside? No, never do I.
 

nayimfrom50

Active Member
Dec 31, 2006
336
305
Thats possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Giggs and Beckham had immense work rate. They were playing 4-4-2 for those years. And always played with forwards with intelligent good movement. As opposed to Defoe, who has zero intelligent anything.

Giggs has also proved he can play anywhere you like.

Ever watched the amount of times Irwin, Evra, overlapped over the years as Giggs took the full back inside? So basic I cry it needs to be spelt out.

As much as I'd normally not bother to respond, I'd love to hear more an explanation on this.
Start off with "thats possibly the most ridiculous thing I have ever read" - big statement, lets see if he can back up with a sensible explanation. oh, shame...

"Giggs and Beckham had immense work rate" - A) who said anything about Bale having a poor workrate? Of all the things you can level at him I am not sure lack of workrate is one of them. B) what has that got to with the point anyway? Even if he was a more lazy player is that really a reason to play him up front?

"They were playing 4-4-2" - your closest attempt at a good point, but still not quite. It makes zero difference. When we attack we are essentially exactly the same as a 4-4-2 system - vdv joins the front man and the two wide men support. Again, no bearing at all on whether Bale should be told to stay wide or not.

"They played with forwards with intelligent movement, as opposed to Defoe" - spot on re Defoe, except he has played for a total of about 5 minutes all season so it is completely irrelevant. Adebayor (and to a lesser extent Saha) actually have very good levels of intelligent movement so the system works.

"overlapping fullbacks.. as Giggs took the fullback inside" - yes! But where did Giggs start from when he took the full back inside? The middle of the park? NO. He started wide, thus creating the space.

You're right it is basic stuff but you've got completely the wrong end of it. Apart from Norwich away, name me one occasion where any of this "Bale should be playing inside" shite can be properly backed up. I'd go further than that and say a large part of our recent form and lack of results has been for exactly the reason that he has not been wide - changing our shape and width and pace and style more than it should of. But that is for another time.

My point on Fergie remains completely valid. The most respected manager in the history of our game developed a very, very, rapid left winger and he left him wide, season after season, after season. He then played a major role in that team becoming the most succesful in living memory. From the left flank.
He has only been moved inside when he has lost a yard of pace and can no longer beat the fullback with speed alone.
It is that simple but feel free to keep crying.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
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"Giggs and Beckham had immense work rate" - A) who said anything about Bale having a poor workrate? Of all the things you can level at him I am not sure lack of workrate is one of them. B) what has that got to with the point anyway? Even if he was a more lazy player is that really a reason to play him up front?

Bales defensive workrate is poor, and his off the ball movement is usually at a snails pace. Giggs workrate was hard and fast both off the ball and on it. Watch giggs in his prime he was be coming inside, going out again. Hard work OFF THE BALL Bale isn't lazy, he's been coached poorly.

"They were playing 4-4-2" - your closest attempt at a good point, but still not quite. It makes zero difference. When we attack we are essentially exactly the same as a 4-4-2 system - vdv joins the front man and the two wide men support. Again, no bearing at all on whether Bale should be told to stay wide or not.

4-4-2 simply isn't used by top teams anymore. VDv doesn't join the front man in real life like he does on Fifa, we dont get men in the box, wingplay is mostly redundant and pointless unless you get 3-4 bodies in the box. 2 forwards, one off the opposite flank, and a midfielder. We just dont do it.

"They played with forwards with intelligent movement, as opposed to Defoe" - spot on re Defoe, except he has played for a total of about 5 minutes all season so it is completely irrelevant. Adebayor (and to a lesser extent Saha) actually have very good levels of intelligent movement so the system works.

We dont play 2 up though do we. 2 intelligent forwards give you so many more options in keeping the ball both long and short, when playing with wingers. How many times have we moaned that we couldn't get the wingers on the ball? The 5 in the middle are too flat. One man up running channels is a waste of time if it leaves them with a spare centre half. 4-5-1 or 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, is not geared up for out and out wingers.

"overlapping fullbacks.. as Giggs took the fullback inside" - yes! But where did Giggs start from when he took the full back inside? The middle of the park? NO. He started wide, thus creating the space.

NO. he didnt just stand there, he was in, out, in out, non stop. Bale has improved on this, but it needs to be quick and sharp, and not so that it looks as if you've given written notification to the opponent on where your going next.

You're right it is basic stuff but you've got completely the wrong end of it. Apart from Norwich away, name me one occasion where any of this "Bale should be playing inside" shite can be properly backed up. I'd go further than that and say a large part of our recent form and lack of results has been for exactly the reason that he has not been wide - changing our shape and width and pace and style more than it should of. But that is for another time.

In the first half of the season it worked a charm. we were free flowing he got a lot more of the ball. He was getting more goals and assists in the league. Unfortunately, our complete lack of options and tactical deteriation have killed it. But he was a much more complete player this season than he was when stuck on the touchline with no one to play with from Jan 11-May 11.

My point on Fergie remains completely valid. The most respected manager in the history of our game developed a very, very, rapid left winger and he left him wide, season after season, after season. He then played a major role in that team becoming the most succesful in living memory. From the left flank.
He has only been moved inside when he has lost a yard of pace and can no longer beat the fullback with speed alone.
It is that simple but feel free to keep crying.

That last comment has killed it. Compared to Bale Giggs weren't even quick, he just had incredible balance and perfected the art of beating players when they got caught square.

Unlike you, Fergie has also moved on tactically. Get out of the 90's!
 
Feb 23, 2007
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In 10 years' time, when Bale's career is summarised, his pre-eminence will be as a world-class, overlapping, offensive Left Back. He has the potentially to be right up there with the best there's ever been. Like a leftie Dani Alves on speed. Full Backs are fundamental to modern tactics (i.e. not 4-4-2 etc), as much as they were one dimensional in the past. I doubt he'll add the additional tools to his box at Spurs, sadly, but I'm sure a manager somewhere will take him to the pinnacle defensively - as an extraordinary weapon in the right team structure.
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
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In 10 years' time, when Bale's career is summarised, his pre-eminence will be as a world-class, overlapping, offensive Left Back. He has the potentially to be right up there with the best there's ever been. Like a leftie Dani Alves on speed. Full Backs are fundamental to modern tactics (i.e. not 4-4-2 etc), as much as they were one dimensional in the past. I doubt he'll add the additional tools to his box at Spurs, sadly, but I'm sure a manager somewhere will take him to the pinnacle defensively - as an extraordinary weapon in the right team structure.


Hahaha take a picture of this one.

He's proved more than once that he cant defend, and doesnt really want to either.
 

Greenspur

Very old member
Sep 1, 2004
2,681
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In 10 years' time, when Bale's career is summarised, his pre-eminence will be as a world-class, overlapping, offensive Left Back. He has the potentially to be right up there with the best there's ever been. Like a leftie Dani Alves on speed. Full Backs are fundamental to modern tactics (i.e. not 4-4-2 etc), as much as they were one dimensional in the past. I doubt he'll add the additional tools to his box at Spurs, sadly, but I'm sure a manager somewhere will take him to the pinnacle defensively - as an extraordinary weapon in the right team structure.

Dani Alves, himself, said (ESPN) "In the Brazilian school, the emphasis is on attacking but that doesn't mean I'm not a full-back. Take Gareth Bale, a player I love. He's a full-back in the Brazilian mould, he has a similar idea. In Europe [Spurs] play him as a winger, but in my team he'd always be a full-back,"
 

Krafty

Well-Known Member
May 26, 2004
4,780
2,108
Dani Alves, himself, said (ESPN) "In the Brazilian school, the emphasis is on attacking but that doesn't mean I'm not a full-back. Take Gareth Bale, a player I love. He's a full-back in the Brazilian mould, he has a similar idea. In Europe [Spurs] play him as a winger, but in my team he'd always be a full-back,"


In Brazil they don't know what wingers are anymore - width was provided with wing backs, defensive midfielders covered the wing backs and made up the numbers at the back, and advanced playmakers like Kaka were instructed to get on the ball.

If Bale had grown up in Brazil he would be a wing back, simply because there is nothing else he could have been (except maybe a striker).

Barca play midfielders as centre backs, wingers as full backs, strikers as wide forwards. In the Barca team I could see why Bale might end up as the left back (because they have very few options and dominate so much the full backs would spend most time attacking anyway) but he would be severely exposed defensively and as soon as they saw how productive and powerful he was going forward, they would soon put him in their front three
 

Maske2g

SC Supporter
Feb 1, 2005
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He can't be compared to Bale at all. His positioning is great. He knows his role inside out, his movement off the ball is superb, but most of all he wants to defend, and loves a tackle.

Which is just as well because he is one barca player capable of calamity, and over elaboration in the wrong places. He is the 21st most "successful" passer in Barca's team this year, which for a full back is a terrible performance in anyone's team, particularly Barca, where he gets as much time on the ball as anyone other then the CB's.

Dani Alves wishes he had Bales technique. Yes, he scored a few great goals, but have enough dips and you'll grab the teddy.....
 
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