Title Aspirations and Relative Values

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by whitestreak, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. whitestreak

    whitestreak SC Supporter

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    Even before the mad pricing bandied about post Neymar with Coutinho being touted to Barca at €150m

    One of the things that irritate me when people are looking at the potential champions at the beginning of the season is that

    IMHO they use the wrong metric.



    People look at transfer spend and impute a value as result, and jump to the wrong conclusion.

    The next problem is that sites like transfermarkt have no connection with realiy ie Sanchez in his last year is worth more than Kane?

    and salaries are not a good metric as Kane Ali and Eriksen combined are on less than Ozil turned down at the goons!

    They also do not take into account Daniel Levy!

    Whilst value on paper is part of the metric performance on the pitch is another.

    I honestly believe that our squad combined value is every bit as valuable as that of Chelsea ManU and ManC.

    Not that i want to sell anyone at the moment, but Kane Dele and Eriksen are probably worth in excess of €500m combined.

    Add in Song Dier Jan Toby Hugo Rose Davies Victor Tripps Sanchez Aurier at say €50m each = €550

    Then put a value of €25m on Janssen Sissoko Lamela Winks Dembele and Onomah = €150m

    say, Vickers, Llorente Foyth and KWP at say €15m = €60m

    And finally Worm Gazaniga and GKN for say 6.5m = €20

    This gives a total value in euros of 1.2b take off 10% for any errors i may have made

    and another 10% to convert it back into £ and the squad is worth about £1B.

    Now is squad worth 1 billion pounds capable of challenging for the league or even the CL?

    how does it stack up in relation to the rest of the EPL? Or even CL?

    we must be pretty close

    I'm sure plenty will disagree about some of the valuations I have put down but remember who our chairman is he is not renowned for underselling players.

    Dembele as is Lamela unfit etc you can potentially quibble a bit but the over all fact is that our squad is worth an awful lot more

    than people realise and probably in the same ball park as the so called big clubs post the transfer window.

    it is also a young squad with people on long contracts.

    I think, had we been at WHL this season, many would have us as joint favourites with the 2 United clubs. Wembley is a factor unfortunately. I think most people would appreciate that our starting XI especially is one of the most valuable. Strength in depth is another issue though, that's taken into account when competing on multiple fronts.


    Pundits and people make simplistic assumptions that the teams that spent the most, have the most valuable squads.

    Funnily enough its a crazy metric as it does not look at the balance of the squad, so in theory you could spend a huge amount on strikers and have no defence!

    i honestly believe that when our long term wounded get back we will be a terrifying proposition both at wembley and away.

    There is very little "dead wood" in our squad!
    We are now in 3rd place
    As long as we stuff, Bournemouth do not get more injuries, and the below link is correct then by 22/10 we should we waiting for Coco on the 5/11
    http://www.physioroom.com/news/english_premier_league/epl_injury_table.php#c19
    Our full Squad is special.

    After 14 October is an interesting 5 weeks for us with games against Real Madrid, home and away and Dortmund away

    With regards to EPL , we have 2 or 3 tricky games on paper, after 14 Oct Bournemouth (h), Liverpool (h) and ManU (a) followed by Palace

    Those games will show us how close we are to being title contenders in the EPL, whether we have adjusted to wembley, and finally if we can get any points off RM and later Dortmund where we will finish up in the CL Qualification, if we can beat Apoel at home. 10 + points should see us qualify.
    Im not sure if we can get any result against Real Madrid but I'm hoping for a draw away at Dortmund!

    In the EPL, It all boils down to whether or not we can recreate last years form in the epl at wembley, I have noticed that we have exactly the same points after the same games last season, as we do now, so can we kick on from that!
    See Lighty thread
    http://spurscommunity.co.uk/index.php?threads/game-for-game-comparison-2017-18.129754/page-3
    OP updated

    September 16/17
    Huddersfield (a) (S'land)
    D 0-0 - W 4-0 - Level

    Total: 14pts
    Current projection: 86pts
    (Please note this is if we match the results from last season)
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2017
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  2. CornerPinDreamer

    CornerPinDreamer ................Us.............

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    has this got something to do with lactic acid?
     
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  3. topper

    topper Well-Known Member

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    Don't be a Lemon!
     
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  4. LexingtonSpurs

    LexingtonSpurs Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Trix

    Trix Well-Known Member

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    Players are worth what clubs are willing to buy and sell for, everything else is a variable that can change by the day tbh. There is no longer any benchmark worth trying to work out values from.
     
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  6. Everlasting Seconds

    Everlasting Seconds Well-Known Member

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    Don't really understand the opening post.
     
  7. Tit&Ham

    Tit&Ham Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a good post. Essentially saying that our team is worth about the same or more as any team in the PL. And by common sense, meaning we could challenge despite many pundits already ruling us out (Or back in again after last weekend).

    The important point of this post is - If Everton bought Kane, Dele Alli, Eriksen and Alderweireld - They would be serious title candidates. We already have them - Meaning we are title candidates and even have a stronger team when considering the rest.

    I do believe that the only thing holding us back a bit is our culture. We don't have that winning mentality that other top teams have. And the only way to get that is from winning. Maybe the League Cup/Fa Cup can be the start for us.
     
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  8. jonnyrotten

    jonnyrotten SC Supporter

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    I started getting it in my eyes and thumbs so had to give up reading OP
     
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  9. dontcallme

    dontcallme SC Supporter

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    Some good points in the OP but written in a slightly scattergun approach that makes it hard to follow.

    I believe there was a Swiss metric test last season that had us as having the most expensive club in Europe. But that is not the best way to judge players. The likes of Andros Townsend, Shaun Wright Phillips etc have been sold for high prices due to their age and league they play in.

    Higher quality players are bought from France, Hollland and Germany because of the less wealth in those leagues.

    The best thing about having a high value squad is if we do get into a situation where we sell then we will have money to reinvest in the squad.

    Football fans regularly make the mistake of thinking money spent is the best indicator for improvement. I ask anyone to go to the "Everton going or top 4" thread and read some of the posts in there.

    People actually believed Everton were going to overtake us because they'd bought Pickford, Siggy etc. They only seemed to concentrate on the money spent and ignored the fact that we already had better.

    We have a very strong, settled squad and the new signings seem to be settling in quickly and well. If we can sort our home form out we are in the title challenge.
     
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  10. whitestreak

    whitestreak SC Supporter

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    BUMP
    Shit I was spot on! :whistle:
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...-Utd-Real-Madrid-Barca-squad-worth-Spurs.html

    Manchester City and Spurs have more valuable squads than Manchester United, Barcelona and Real Madrid as Cristiano Ronaldo is worth just £84m compared to Lionel Messi at £103m
    • A new report from the CIES football observatory was released on Monday
    • Manchester City have four players worth more than €100m in their squad
    • Midfielder Kevin De Bruyne is their most valuable player at £128million
    • Real Madrid are the sixth ranked team in the world, Barcelona are in third
    By Amitai Winehouse For Mailonline

    • Manchester City have the most valuable squad in world football, according to a new report.

      There is also a shock at the top of the charts, as Tottenham Hotspur's squad are deemed to be worth more than the players that Barcelona and Real Madrid have at their disposal.

      The Premier League leaders are only one of four club sides in the world with a squad valued at over €1billion in the study commissioned by the CIES Football Observatory.

      Manchester City have been named as having the most valuable squad in world football by CIES

      Midfield maestro Kevin De Bruyne is marked as City's most valuable player at £128m

      City, who have four players that are considered to be worth more than €100million, have a transfer value of €1.2bn (£1bn).

      Their most valuable player, potentially, is midfielder Kevin De Bruyne, who has lit up the Premier League this season. The Belgian has been valued at €145m (£128m).

      Leroy Sane (£104m), Raheem Sterling (£104m) and Gabriel Jesus (£93m), three talented young City players, are also valued at more than €100m.

      Spurs, meanwhile, are said to have players worth €1.17bn (£1.04bn) available to them, according to CIES.

      Leroy Sane (right) is one of another three players at City who have been valued at over €100bn

      That figure is boosted by the fact they have one of the world's most valuable players - judging by CIES's metric - in their squad. No one in the Premier League is worth more than Harry Kane, who is valued at €185.6m (£164m).

      But 21-year-old midfielder Dele Alli is hot on Kane's tail. He has been valued at €181.7m (£160.74m) following his staggering display against Real Madrid last week.

      Add in the likes of Christian Eriksen (£92m) and Heung-Min Son (£59.71m) and it is easy to see why Spurs have come in second in the ranking.

      Sitting just behind them are Barcelona, whose squad have been given an overall valuation of €1.13bn (£1bn).

      Second-placed Tottenham's figure has been bolstered by the presence of striker Harry Kane

      But Dele Alli is hot on the tail of his Spurs and England team-mate at a value of £160.74m

      Their most valuable player, according to CIES, is Luis Suarez, who has been valued at €134bn (£118.54m). Lionel Messi is worth €117.3m (£103.7m).

      Even though they are a surprising third in the ranking, they still come ahead of Chelsea, Manchester United and Real Madrid. And PSG, who splashed the cash on Neymar in the summer, are a shock seventh.

      Chelsea are worth €1.04bn (£902m) while United, hot off the back of their defeat against the Stamford Bridge side, are the highest ranked side not to be worth more than a billion euros.

      They are instead worth €919m (£812.9m). Although, on a positive note for them, Romelu Lukaku (£146m) is worth more than Suarez, Chelsea's most valuable player Eden Hazard, and Real Madrid's - Cristiano Ronaldo.


      Barcelona's second most valuable player, Lionel Messi, has been valued at £117.3million

      Cristiano Ronaldo has been valued at £84million in the new report from CIES

      Ronaldo has been valued at £84m and is among a squad who, according to CIES, who are worth €903m in total (£798m). Gareth Bale, meanwhile, is worth €54.8m (£48m).

      At PSG, Neymar, the world's most valuable player both in reality and according to the algorithm, is said to be worth just under a quarter of the entire squad at the Parc des Princes. He is valued at €218m (£192m), while PSG's squad have been valued at €864m (£764m).

      Elsewhere from the Premier League, Arsenal are down in 12th on €666m (£589m), Leicester are 19th while relegation threatened Everton are 21st in the world, on €381m (£337m).

      THE TOP 98 CLUBS IN EUROPE
      1. Manchester City (€1.19bn)

      2. Tottenham (€1.17bn)

      3. Barcelona (€1.13bn)

      4. Chelsea (€1.04bn)

      5. Manchester United (€919m)

      6. Real Madrid (€903m)

      7. Liverpool (€901m)

      8. PSG (€864m)

      9. Atletico Madrid (€800m)

      10. Juventus (€743m)

      11. Napoli (€721m)

      12. Arsenal (€666m)

      13. Bayern Munich (€624m)

      14. Monaco (€604m)

      15. Roma (€595m)

      16. Borussia Dortmund (€482m)

      17. AC Milan (€457m)

      18. Inter Milan (€445m)

      19. Leicester (€417m)

      20. RB Leipzig (€397m)

      21. Everton (€381m)

      22. Southampton (€359m)

      23. Lazio (€309m)

      24. Sevilla (€308m)

      25. Bayer Leverkusen (€252m)

      26. Lyon (€250m)

      27. West Ham (€241m)

      28. Real Sociedad (€240m)

      29. Villarreal (€236m)

      30. Torino (€225m)

      31. Borussia Monchengladbach (€224m)

      32. Fiorentina (€214m)

      - Atalanta (€214m)

      34. Bournemouth (€213m)

      - Marseille (€213m)

      36. Valencia (€200m)

      37. Hoffenheim (€198m)

      38. Newcastle (€197m)

      - Sampdoria (€197m)

      40. Athletic Bilbao (€195m)

      41. Crystal Palace (€186m)

      42. Watford (€180m)

      43. Swansea City (€168m)

      44. Burnley (€159m)

      45. Wolfsburg (€154m)

      - Bordeaux (€154m)

      47. Stoke City (€152m)

      48. Brighton (€150m)

      49. Schalke (€149m)

      50. Nice (€147m)

      51. Espanyol (€145m)

      52. Sassuolo (€140m)

      53. West Brom (€137m)

      54. Udinese (€132m)

      55. Real Betis (€127m)

      56. Huddersfield Town (€126m)

      57. Bologna (€123m)

      58. Celta Vigo (€120m)

      59. Rennes (€108m)

      60. Cologne (€98m)

      61. Levante (€77m)

      62. Augsburg (€94m)

      63. Nantes (€93m)

      64. Genoa (€91m)

      65. Deportivo La Coruna (€89m)

      66. Hamburg (€88m)

      67. Cagliari (€87m)

      68. Freiburg (€84m)

      - Toulouse (€84m)

      - Hertha Berlin (€84m)

      71. Frankfurt (€83m)

      - Angers (€83m)

      - Mainz (€83m)

      74. Werden Bremen (€79m)

      75. Lille (€78m)

      76. Malaga (€77m)

      77. St. Etienne (€72m)

      78. Alaves (€68m)

      79. Eibar (€66m)

      80. Stuttgart (€63m)

      81. Chievo Verona (€59m)

      - Leganes (€59m)

      83. Montpellier (€57m)

      84. Guingamp (€56m)

      85. Hannover (€55m)

      86. Getafe (€54m)

      87. Crotone (€53m)

      88. Caen (€49m)

      89. Las Palmas (€47m)

      90. Hellas Verona (€45m)

      91. Dijon (€39m)

      92. Benevento (€42m)

      93. Metz (€38m)

      - Girona (€38m)

      95. SPAL (€34m)

      96. Strasbourg (€29m)

      97. Troyes (€28m)

      98. Amiens (€20m)


     
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  11. tototoner

    tototoner SC Supporter

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    Bravo, good work on the OP
     
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  12. Locotoro

    Locotoro King of Zamunda

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    almost double the estimated value of Arsenal's squad
     
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  13. smallsnc

    smallsnc Member

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    Current value (based on perceived transfer fees) does not, IMO, have a lot to do quality of the players in the squad today. It is as much based on age and length of contract still on the books as it is on quality of the players.

    For me, the truer indication of relative squad strength from a money standpoint is the salaries (bonuses would have to be included) of the players. The fact that we have been doing more with less than our top 6 rivals over the past couple of seasons is a testament to our ability to bring in young players and get them performing at a high level. Don't really care about net transfer spend if we can pay enough to keep our core in tack while adding a couple of more pieces over the summer.

    The current value does show how well Levey and Poch have done in building the team and its value.
     
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  14. archiewasking

    archiewasking Well-Known Member

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    My favourite line is "No one in the Premier League is worth more than Harry Kane." You know it.
     
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