Tom Carroll

dace

Active Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Messages
114
#41
Not sure he would want to go to a team that is more than likely going down ..
Think he will wait for the Summer for anything permanent.
 

HildoSpur

Likes Erik Lamela, deal with it.
Joined
Oct 1, 2005
Messages
4,008
#42
He's going to 25 in a few months - time for him to go somewhere and play actual football.
wow I didnt realise he was almost 25 - if the guy has any ambition to be a top class player he really needs to be playing regularly and at almost 25 he has wasted nearly half his career potentially on hoping he could make it at Spurs. He needs to move on for his own sake.
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
3,401
#43
Not sure he would want to go to a team that is more than likely going down ..
Think he will wait for the Summer for anything permanent.
So many of these deals now have a clause in, look at Townsend to Newcastle - as soon as they dropped he got a move without issue. It's a win/win for TC as he can at least get the minutes to get another move if needed.
 

archiewasking

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
5,468
#45
Not sure he would want to go to a team that is more than likely going down ..
Think he will wait for the Summer for anything permanent.
I thought when he went to Swansea he couldn't hold down a place in their team? Mind you, they were a bit better then.
Hopefully Chadli can save them.
 

Pellshek

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 30, 2015
Messages
2,152
#52
Players like Carroll - and indeed Winks - are judged by fans slightly differently to other players.

For some reason, with small, nippy, ball-playing midfielders, we tend to see the most idealised version of that kind of player in our mind's eye, and project that idealisation onto the actual player.

By contrast, we don't look at a bog-standard League 2 hard man and think he's Roy Keane or Patrick Viera. We don't look at a fast, but low-skill semi-pro winger and think he's Bale or Ribery.

And yet, with the buzzy, busy, passy little midfielder, we seem to very quickly think of him as a mini-Modric or Silva or Totti. As if of course that's the level he'll reach just because he's that style of player.

I think Carroll is a good example of this. A talented, good player who's probably PL quality, but who's not really shown himself the same as our most idealised vision of him.

We need to be careful not to do this with Winks. If we're looking a bit stodgy in midfield, people call for Winks to come on, because in their minds' eye they imagine metronomic passing, clever little balls down the channels, fast little accelerations/dribbles that break the line. Well, sure, if the guy is Modric or Scholes that might happen, but if he's a 20 year old who's just broken into the first team, it should not be expected. It may happen, but as we see with Carroll, it's not guaranteed.
 

Everlasting Seconds

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 9, 2014
Messages
10,187
#53
Players like Carroll - and indeed Winks - are judged by fans slightly differently to other players.

For some reason, with small, nippy, ball-playing midfielders, we tend to see the most idealised version of that kind of player in our mind's eye, and project that idealisation onto the actual player.

By contrast, we don't look at a bog-standard League 2 hard man and think he's Roy Keane or Patrick Viera. We don't look at a fast, but low-skill semi-pro winger and think he's Bale or Ribery.

And yet, with the buzzy, busy, passy little midfielder, we seem to very quickly think of him as a mini-Modric or Silva or Totti. As if of course that's the level he'll reach just because he's that style of player.

I think Carroll is a good example of this. A talented, good player who's probably PL quality, but who's not really shown himself the same as our most idealised vision of him.

We need to be careful not to do this with Winks. If we're looking a bit stodgy in midfield, people call for Winks to come on, because in their minds' eye they imagine metronomic passing, clever little balls down the channels, fast little accelerations/dribbles that break the line. Well, sure, if the guy is Modric or Scholes that might happen, but if he's a 20 year old who's just broken into the first team, it should not be expected. It may happen, but as we see with Carroll, it's not guaranteed.
I never thought Carroll would make it. I do think Winks will. So to me there is no direct link at all between what Carroll haven't achieved and what one could expect from Winks.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
3,845
#55
Players like Carroll - and indeed Winks - are judged by fans slightly differently to other players.

For some reason, with small, nippy, ball-playing midfielders, we tend to see the most idealised version of that kind of player in our mind's eye, and project that idealisation onto the actual player.

By contrast, we don't look at a bog-standard League 2 hard man and think he's Roy Keane or Patrick Viera. We don't look at a fast, but low-skill semi-pro winger and think he's Bale or Ribery.

And yet, with the buzzy, busy, passy little midfielder, we seem to very quickly think of him as a mini-Modric or Silva or Totti. As if of course that's the level he'll reach just because he's that style of player.

I think Carroll is a good example of this. A talented, good player who's probably PL quality, but who's not really shown himself the same as our most idealised vision of him.

We need to be careful not to do this with Winks. If we're looking a bit stodgy in midfield, people call for Winks to come on, because in their minds' eye they imagine metronomic passing, clever little balls down the channels, fast little accelerations/dribbles that break the line. Well, sure, if the guy is Modric or Scholes that might happen, but if he's a 20 year old who's just broken into the first team, it should not be expected. It may happen, but as we see with Carroll, it's not guaranteed.
Definitely agree with some of this sentiment, although it's already clear to me that Winks is an improved version of Carroll. Carroll was always far too passive in his appearances for us. If he was not being used as a conduit he was completely anonymous. He also didn't move and offer himself enough off the ball for my liking. Winks has instantly shown more of an ability to put himself about and break up play whenever he can. Physically, his upper body has already filled out more and he has more strength. He's just generally a lot more pro-active in trying to establish himself on a game, and has pretty much already bypassed Carroll as a player.
 

panoma

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2012
Messages
2,233
#56
Not sure he would want to go to a team that is more than likely going down ..
Think he will wait for the Summer for anything permanent.
The Championship is about his level anyways so don't really see any problems with this. Never been good in any senior match he's played, and he got plenty of opportunities.
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
1,620
#57
Players like Carroll - and indeed Winks - are judged by fans slightly differently to other players.

For some reason, with small, nippy, ball-playing midfielders, we tend to see the most idealised version of that kind of player in our mind's eye, and project that idealisation onto the actual player.

By contrast, we don't look at a bog-standard League 2 hard man and think he's Roy Keane or Patrick Viera. We don't look at a fast, but low-skill semi-pro winger and think he's Bale or Ribery.

And yet, with the buzzy, busy, passy little midfielder, we seem to very quickly think of him as a mini-Modric or Silva or Totti. As if of course that's the level he'll reach just because he's that style of player.

I think Carroll is a good example of this. A talented, good player who's probably PL quality, but who's not really shown himself the same as our most idealised vision of him.

We need to be careful not to do this with Winks. If we're looking a bit stodgy in midfield, people call for Winks to come on, because in their minds' eye they imagine metronomic passing, clever little balls down the channels, fast little accelerations/dribbles that break the line. Well, sure, if the guy is Modric or Scholes that might happen, but if he's a 20 year old who's just broken into the first team, it should not be expected. It may happen, but as we see with Carroll, it's not guaranteed.
Whilst it's easy to go overboard on any youngster I don't agree with this regarding the comparison of Carroll and Winks.

Carroll has always been one dimensional, he's tidy but limited. He plays the way he faces, his movement is restricted in terms of where he goes and what part of the field he's comfortable operating in. He is always brave in wanting the ball but not so in what he'll do with it, he'll nearly always choose to get rid rather than turn, or move with it.
He came to the fore when possession football was all the rage and is very suited to it but he doesn't 'control' a game.
And, because of these limitations, I can't see him ever getting much better.

Winks, on the other hand, will make a decision based on what is going on around him. If he's in space he's off down the pitch with the ball. If an opponent over commits he'll take the ball around them. If someone's open he'll pass early. He can shield the ball if under pressure. He'll continue his run if the space is there. His judgement is that good he never seems to give the ball away. He sees the game in 360 degrees which makes him a very well rounded CM.
And because of his all round game I think his ceiling is much higher as he gets more experience. In fact, I'd only have Dembele above him currently due to physicality and experience.

As a result I'd be happy to call it because I think he will be the next Modric in a couple of years time.
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,300
#59
Players like Carroll - and indeed Winks - are judged by fans slightly differently to other players.

For some reason, with small, nippy, ball-playing midfielders, we tend to see the most idealised version of that kind of player in our mind's eye, and project that idealisation onto the actual player.

By contrast, we don't look at a bog-standard League 2 hard man and think he's Roy Keane or Patrick Viera. We don't look at a fast, but low-skill semi-pro winger and think he's Bale or Ribery.

And yet, with the buzzy, busy, passy little midfielder, we seem to very quickly think of him as a mini-Modric or Silva or Totti. As if of course that's the level he'll reach just because he's that style of player.

I think Carroll is a good example of this. A talented, good player who's probably PL quality, but who's not really shown himself the same as our most idealised vision of him.

We need to be careful not to do this with Winks. If we're looking a bit stodgy in midfield, people call for Winks to come on, because in their minds' eye they imagine metronomic passing, clever little balls down the channels, fast little accelerations/dribbles that break the line. Well, sure, if the guy is Modric or Scholes that might happen, but if he's a 20 year old who's just broken into the first team, it should not be expected. It may happen, but as we see with Carroll, it's not guaranteed.
Everyone here rates Winks, and he's small.
Problem with Carroll is that he's weak. He's like a little child. You can't have a CM like that in the premier league.

Winks is much more stronger and aggresive, and positions himself better to intercept. That's the main difference.

BTW, kudos to DL for the sale. Carroll +3m=Wanyama
 
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