Top 4 is not enough!

[Krafty]

Sunday was a setback, no doubt, but Harry needs to get his players refocused on their title challenge, no matter how slim the chances, and here is why...

Money

Money makes the world go round, and money is the main reason why Spurs need to get back on that winning run. At the start of the season a Top Four finish was a fine target, achievable and realistic, but now we can aim higher we must.

Champions League money is not just split based on your performances in the tournament, it’s also split based on your league position the year before. The team who finished first get around a 40% share of television money due to English clubs, second gets 30%, third 20%, and fourth 10%. While we may not be able to catch City, we can certainly beat Manchester United to second, and that could be worth an additional £20million. Money that can be wisely invested in the team (or the new stadium).

Likewise, if we take our foot off the pedal and let Chelsea catch us, it could cost us £20million. Third would be a fantastic achievement but we can keep going and aim higher.

Talking heads

Tottenham will run out of steam, they always have a blip, its Tottenham for crying out loud! That’s what all the expert pundits, ex-pros, and general naysayers said whenever a potential title challenge was mentioned. They did not expect us to be this close to the top in 2012, imagine what will happen if we stay in the hunt until the end of April, or beyond. If we are only eight points or less off the top come the end of the season we will have made fantastic progress, and more importantly shown all the muppets in the media that we are not a flash in the pan, we can be the real deal.

The Summer

Staying involved in the title race will help demonstrate to the current playing staff as well as any targets we might have in the summer transfer window that we are a club on the up and up. Champions League football will be at the Lane, but even more importantly we are in the hunt for titles. That ambition could be the difference between keeping and adding quality to the squad that really takes us on to the very highest level, or battling to keep hold of our star names and worrying about the future.

To take one example, if we keep in touch with the two teams from Manchester, maybe even overtake one of them, Luka Modric will see that, apart from a bit extra money he could earn (which will be largely covered by the new contract Spurs are offering), Tottenham are the better football team for him, not just because of the atmosphere and camaraderie on the training pitch but because we are his best chance of success as well. Same goes for Bale, Remy, Ba, whoever. A big push in these last four months or so could set us up for the next five years.

A fine example

We don’t have experience of pushing for titles, of the season long consistency that is required to be champions, but so far this season we have shown league winning form. If we can continue that run then we will know what is needed to win a title, and will be so much better for knowing it.

Also if we can finish close to the champions, closer than the current eight point gap that currently exists between us and the leaders, we can point to enough reasons to show we can win the league next season. The six points dropped at the beginning of the season before we signed Parker and Adebayor. Foy at Stoke, Webb at City, Defoe’s studs, Adebayor’s two wrongly disallowed goals versus Stoke and Wolves. Add in a couple of new players and the belief will be surging through our veins.

Harry (or the next manager)

Harry has been key to our revival, of that no one can argue. Just as we get a bit of consistency the rug is pulled out from beneath our feet as it seems our manager will be nicked by the FA. Or will he? If we can continue our title push maybe Harry will think it’s worth carrying on for another season or two. Maybe the lure of winning big trophies, something that Harry has only done once (FA Cup with Portsmouth) will keep him at the club just a little longer. The England job will still be there in two years time, after England have failed again in Brazil.

And if Harry does go, we could be the most attractive job opening on the market. A young team, full of pace, on the verge of going big, a new training ground finished, a new stadium on the way, not shy of spending a few bucks, with quality and quantity that the new man has plenty of options or plenty of opportunities to raise money and get in the players he wants.

There are lots of reasons why we need to keep our championship winning form going, beyond professional pride. But here’s the big one: with Europa League distractions, big cup games, and the pressure of leading the pack of the chase, there is a chance that City and United drop plenty of points. It’ll be a massive ask, the odds are huge, but we can still win this thing.

 

[striebs]

Disagree with the title .

Top-4 is far from a foregone conclusion and Arsenal and to a lesser extent Chelsea (who outplayed us the other week) cannot be written off .

Realistically I'd love third , second would be a dream , fourth would be more than acceptable and indeed overachievement when you look at the relative budgets .

 

[JimmyG2]

"It is better to fail aiming high than to succeed aiming low. And we of Spurs have set our sights very high, so high in fact that even failure will have in it an echo of glory."

Bill agrees with you; and I agree with Bill.
'Audere est facere' but I'd take third place now, but then I would have taken a point against City before the game.
Too many years of disappointment I suppose but essentially you're not wrong.

There are better managers out there, in a technical sense, but are they the right temperemental fit for Spurs?

The old football cliche comes to mind about taking it one game at a time.
We are not 'pushing' for anything just playing individual matches on a weekly basis.
Win each one as it comes up and rewards will flow.

The thing about success is that it breeds confidence which in turn brings greater success which breeds........
and as you say gives us access to better players and enables us to keep the players we want to keep. More 'pulling' power as you might say in another context.

 

[mawspurs]

No arguments from me Krafty. We need to be continually looking up rather than down, if we keep doing that then the teams below us will be left in our wake. It's all part of the winning mentality we need to have. Forget about those behind us and concentrate on overtaking those above us.

Lets see how far up the table we can get with the current squad.

COYS.

 

[gloryglory]

I'm with Striebs. 4th is indeed "enough". If we finish 4th, we will have had a really successful season, overtaking Chelsea or Arsenal, holding off Liverpool and qualified for the Champions League - all of our main objectives for the season, which nobody expected us to do before the season started. Not one pundit had us down to finish top 4 - the vast majority had us in 6th.

I was more positive then - I believed we were better than Liverpool and likely to finish in the top 5, and that Arsenal were catchable so we had a reasonable chance of 4th without the distraction of playing in the Champions League if we were relatively lucky with injuries. Look up my posts in August and you'll see I said this, and I'm proud of calling that right.

But I also said it would be tight with Arsenal and I couldn't see us catching Chelsea or City, and that United would win the title. I actually think all of that is probably still true, and hanging on to 4th against Arsenal will be much tougher than it looks when you look at the league table today.

Still, even if 4th is "enough", more would obviously be better, for all the reasons in the article and more! And the target, quite simply, is to win every league game. 3rd at least is very plausible and would be a massive achievement - higher still would be unbelievable. A cup run would be satisfying too. But all I'm saying is that if we finished 4th, it would still have to be regarded as a successful season.

 

[Krafty]

Maybe I should have put Top 4 in '-'. At the start of the season yes, we all would have taken 4th place, but this season we are more than just a team challenging for a top 4 place, and we should not take our foot off the gas.

I just fear that some at the club (including the fans) will say after the City defeat 'that's that, it was ncie while it lasted, let's finish in the top 4 and we have done well' but we should now be saying third is the minimum from this season. If Chelsea catch us then we have cocked up. After more than half the season we have shown we are 5 points better than them, so the least we should do is match them in the remaining games.

I don't want anyone to think that once you 'appear' to be out of the title race, then you just need to finish in the top 4. Every single place is important, getting third rather than 4th is important, getting 2nd is even more important, and we cannot lose focus or concentration for a second.

 

[gloryglory]

If Chelsea catch us then we have cocked up. After more than half the season we have shown we are 5 points better than them, so the least we should do is match them in the remaining games.

See, I just don't agree with that. You don't show anything over half the season, you show it over the full season because only then have you played the same fixtures. I think the Chelsea game, where we were outplayed for about 60 minutes, shows that we're not "5 points better than them". If we stay above them it's a brilliant achievement, if we don't, it's a bit disappointing from here but it's not failure. Failure would have been slipping behind Liverpool or Newcastle.

 

[nightgoat]

See, I just don't agree with that. You don't show anything over half the season, you show it over the full season because only then have you played the same fixtures. I think the Chelsea game, where we were outplayed for about 60 minutes, shows that we're not "5 points better than them". If we stay above them it's a brilliant achievement, if we don't, it's a bit disappointing from here but it's not failure. Failure would have been slipping behind Liverpool or Newcastle.

You've just completely contradicted yourself in the space of two sentences. :clap:

 

[Krafty]

See, I just don't agree with that. You don't show anything over half the season, you show it over the full season because only then have you played the same fixtures. I think the Chelsea game, where we were outplayed for about 60 minutes, shows that we're not "5 points better than them". If we stay above them it's a brilliant achievement, if we don't, it's a bit disappointing from here but it's not failure. Failure would have been slipping behind Liverpool or Newcastle.

But you understand that at this point right now, the best gauge of where we are is the season so far. Ignore what you expected at the start of the season, because the basis for your expectations have changed. We are the third in the table, we should aim to be at least third at the end of the season.

Over the course of the 22 games in the league so far, we are five points better than Chelsea. As that is the only evidence that is available you have to say we should finish above Chelsea. yes we have harder away games or easier home games or whatever, but that five point cushion, plus the fact we are 3 games over halfway, indicates that we should be able to match their points total from the remaining games, and we have a 5 point leeway in case things go bad.

There is always a chance that something goes royally tits up, but if we maintain the focus and aptitude that we have shown so far we will finish above Chelsea. We have done it for most of the 22 games so far, there is no excuse not to continue it for the remaining 16.

 

[gloryglory]

You've just completely contradicted yourself in the space of two sentences. :clap:

No, my point is that there's conflicting evidence. You could say the league table doesn't lie, it shows we're better than them. You could say we drew with them when we met, so the teams are about even. You could look at the game itself and probably conclude they were the better team, even at our place.

My point is none of this tells the whole story, and you have to draw your own conclusions. The league table isn't the "only evidence". How about the fact that while we were amassing 5 points more than them, they were getting through their Champions League group while we were failing to get through our Europa League one? Context is important.

You have to make your own opinions. Mine is that, for a number of reasons not least that they are used to pressure, Chelsea are likely to finish above us. Hence, if they do, I won't think it's underachievement. But if they don't, if we hold out, I think I'll be more impressed by that than you will, because I appreciate how damn hard it will be. And frankly I'll be chuffed if we finish above Arsenal and get 4th, that would be fantastic.

 

[Kingstheman]

4th would be good.

3rd would be amazing.

We must make sure of the latter, whilst ensuring that we aim for the former.

 

[nightgoat]

No, my point is that there's conflicting evidence. You could say the league table doesn't lie, it shows we're better than them. You could say we drew with them when we met, so the teams are about even. You could look at the game itself and probably conclude they were the better team, even at our place.

My point is none of this tells the whole story, and you have to draw your own conclusions. The league table isn't the "only evidence". How about the fact that while we were amassing 5 points more than them, they were getting through their Champions League group while we were failing to get through our Europa League one? Context is important.

You have to make your own opinions. Mine is that, for a number of reasons not least that they are used to pressure, Chelsea are likely to finish above us. Hence, if they do, I won't think it's underachievement. But if they don't, if we hold out, I think I'll be more impressed by that than you will, because I appreciate how damn hard it will be. And frankly I'll be chuffed if we finish above Arsenal and get 4th, that would be fantastic.

I agree that context is important - if Van Persie was injured for three months Arsenal's league position would not be reflective of their strongest possible team, for example. Our context could be considered as the points we should have had from the Stoke, Wolves and Chelsea games.

Ultimately, the league position is what is judged most. I accept that it will always have some sort of distortion throughout the season depending on fixtures played up until then, and in that sense, with three of the top seven still to play away. I don't think we'll lose any of those games if I'm honest (unless Howard is in charge).

But expectations shift throughout the course of the season - take 2008/09 for example. After eight games a lot of people on here would have been happy just to stay up. Towards the end of the season we were in with an outside chance of European qualification. At the start of the season I would have been happy with fourth. Now, based on our performances and results, combined with the performances and inconsistencies of the teams immediately behind us I'd be disappointed if we came lower than third. I still think we can finish above Man Utd and get second.