What's new

Tottenham afraid to play at home - Emmanuel Adebayor

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
I really think we need to place more emphasis on intelligence when signing players. These players couldn't understand what AVB wanted & now they're struggling to understand what Poch expects. They did well under Harry, who kept it simple & gave them quite a bit of freedom. Mind you Harry did have VDV, Modric & Bale to provide the x factor ....

You're oversimplifying, as so many do when considering what Redknapp did. It isn't just about 'giving them freedom', implying 'doing nothing except cheering them on'. Team-building is a skill and a bloody difficult one. It's especially difficult when you are dealing with febrile, touchy egos, men at the top of the international tree as far as skill and esteem goes. You have to give them confidence individually, make each one feel valued and, at the same time, induce each one to make his ego subservient to the team ethic, without inhibiting his individual flair.

It's incredibly hard to do. Ferguson did it. Clough did it. Redknapp, whilst not in the same class, was able to do it on the one occasion in his career when he had players whose abilities were up to rewarding his skills with something other than 'avoiding relegation'.

Harry is is own worst enemy. He's so full of blarney that no one takes him seriously. What he achieved, in welding disparate, strong-character players like King, van der Vaart, Modric, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone, Assou-Ekotto, Crouch, Defoe and Keane into a unit that could not only win enough matches to get to the quarter-finals of the Champions League, but also have a good time together doing it, is so chronically misunderstood and underrated by our own fans that it aspires to the status of a Greek tragedy: the hero undone by his fatal flaw. He's such an arsehole that no one gives him credit for what he does so well. And he was so unable to keep his mouth shut that he lost the only job that could have cemented his reputation and his legacy.

Everything we hear about Pochettino suggests that he has similar abilities, but he's right at the start of his managerial career. Those skills require decades to be honed. Either we're going to persevere with this guy and go through some frustrating years, or we're going to lose patience again, sack him and hire the Next Big Thing for the 4th or 5th time. In the short term, it's a no-win situation.
 
Last edited:

Matthew Wyatt

Call me Boris
Aug 3, 2007
2,224
1,988
The players are good. The team isn't working. As someone who thinks Mr Harry Redknapp is the biggest bullshit artist in English football, I'd propose that what we are pining for is someone who can get good players to play like brilliant players. Someone like Harry.

There are a lot of people here who insist that Redknapp only did well because of the players he had at his disposal. Bollocks. He knew how to get those players playing together, at a level higher than each individual's talent.
Quite so. An ideal would be to keep Pochettino as our young coach learning on the job and have Harry as his assistant/mentor -- a nice semi-retirement gig if the latter's ego could take it.
Redknapp knows how to put a team together, but got tactically found out sometimes
True, but in the last couple of weeks Pochettino has been tactically bested by Pardew and Hughes, at home. That's a worry.
 

Redfap

Active Member
Nov 8, 2011
557
791
You're oversimplifying, as so many do when considering what Redknapp did. It isn't just about 'giving them freedom', implying 'doing nothing except cheering them on'. Team-building is a skill and a bloody difficult one. It's especially difficult when you are dealing with febrile, touchy egos, men at the top of the international tree as far as skill and esteem goes. You have to give them confidence individually, make each one feel valued and, at the same time, induce each one to make his ego subservient to the team ethic, without inhibiting his individual flair.

It's incredibly hard to do. Ferguson did it. Clough did it. Redknapp, whilst not in the same class, was able to do it on the one occasion in his career when he had players whose abilities were up to rewarding his skills with something other than 'avoiding relegation'.

Harry is is own worst enemy. He's so full of blarney that no one takes him seriously. What he achieved, in welding disparate, strong-character players like King, van der Vaart, Modric, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone, Assou-Ekotto, Crouch, Defoe and Keane into a unit that could not only win enough matches to get to the quarter-finals of the Champions League, but also have a good time together doing it, is so chronically misunderstood and underrated by our own fans that it aspires to the status of a Greek tragedy: the hero undone by his fatal flaw. He's such an arsehole that no one gives him credit for what he does so well. And he was so unable to keep his mouth shut that he lost the only job that could have cemented his reputation and his legacy.

Everything we hear about Pochettino suggests that he has similar abilities, but he's right at the start of his managerial career. Those skills require decades to be honed. Either we're going to persevere with this guy and go through some frustrating years, or we're going to lose patience again, sack him and hire the Next Big Thing for the 4th or 5th time. In the short term, it's a no-win situation.

Well said!

But, does the current squad have characters of the strength of King, VdV, Modric, Bale and Keane? We seem to have a team of passengers, do we have a player other than perhaps Lloris who has the tenacity or ability to grab the other players by the scruff of the neck and say 'Come on Lads, not today, not on my watch, dont give up now, we've got this'
 

chico

Well-Known Member
Dec 2, 2004
710
1,194
Can U Not Talk so much? Work harder and let the results do the talking.
 

Block D Spurs

Active Member
Sep 2, 2014
319
234
Ade says players can't understand what Poch. wants then to do. So bring back the Spanish translator.. I really think the players are in a comfort zone of minimum effort per game, and damn good wages per week, living the high life, so to speak. Shake them up, transfer those poch does not want in Jan window and those not sold be in the cup games teams. We need a first 11 squad, and then players know what they have to do to start in PL. games
 

Dennism

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2006
1,225
2,712
Adebayor thinks we are mugs. If he went to one of his posh restaurants would he be satisfied with beans on toast, a Mars bar and a can of lager. I think not. Why then does he think that we should accept sub-standard fare without complaint.
I find it amazing how many people on here will happily accept mediocrity. Watching the FA Cup last weekend has shown what can be achieved with desire, even with players of limited ability. Spurs manage to consistently lose to teams with inferior resources and less talented players. The team need to have a serious look at themselves and stop complaining.
 

doom

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2003
2,368
1,338
Ade has a great point that there is a negative atmosphere from the crowd at the lane and it's effecting the players. You can't blame the fans though as we are frustrated but it's a catch 22 situation. You would really have to be totally stubborn not to be effected by it and you can see that in the hesitancy which gets worse as the game goes on. The way out is to get the players on the pitch who either are fans favourites or those not being effected. I'd say Rose has been great going forward, Soldado is passing well, Lamela is good for one half, Dier looks confident, Stambouli - hardly played, try Kaboul at right back, Kane - has the fans backing and finally Mason & Chadli - our two best players atm,

So our next home game could look like this:

Lloris
Kaboul Dier Verts Rose
Stambouli
Lamela Mason Chadli
Soldado Kane

how we could do with an obedient BAE!

We really need attack and defence sorted at the next window.
 

NayimsSocks

Member
Nov 24, 2006
184
86
"This is the third or fourth manager in two or three years so we just have to stop it now being about the manager,"

Even though his application and attitude are not always 100% I think this is spot on.

There is some deep lying mental problems embedded in the squad. Look at the improvements in the performance of many of the players that leave (siigy, hudd etc) or the often unrealised development of our new signings whilst they are here. Not all but most.

We have a technically better squad than most teams in our league, with the ability to get these players before all except the top 4 or 5 but still routinely get out played and out fought, recently at home.

A less than positive atmosphere may have some impact but that cannot be the whole story.

I would be fascinated to see what would have happened if Sanchez had for example joined us and Arsenal had Soldado. I bet Soldado would be banging them in by now.

We are rotten and a new manager will not change this. Maybe trading the whole squad? Just a thought...
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,391
You're oversimplifying, as so many do when considering what Redknapp did. It isn't just about 'giving them freedom', implying 'doing nothing except cheering them on'. Team-building is a skill and a bloody difficult one. It's especially difficult when you are dealing with febrile, touchy egos, men at the top of the international tree as far as skill and esteem goes. You have to give them confidence individually, make each one feel valued and, at the same time, induce each one to make his ego subservient to the team ethic, without inhibiting his individual flair.

It's incredibly hard to do. Ferguson did it. Clough did it. Redknapp, whilst not in the same class, was able to do it on the one occasion in his career when he had players whose abilities were up to rewarding his skills with something other than 'avoiding relegation'.

Harry is is own worst enemy. He's so full of blarney that no one takes him seriously. What he achieved, in welding disparate, strong-character players like King, van der Vaart, Modric, Bale, Lennon, Huddlestone, Assou-Ekotto, Crouch, Defoe and Keane into a unit that could not only win enough matches to get to the quarter-finals of the Champions League, but also have a good time together doing it, is so chronically misunderstood and underrated by our own fans that it aspires to the status of a Greek tragedy: the hero undone by his fatal flaw. He's such an arsehole that no one gives him credit for what he does so well. And he was so unable to keep his mouth shut that he lost the only job that could have cemented his reputation and his legacy.

Everything we hear about Pochettino suggests that he has similar abilities, but he's right at the start of his managerial career. Those skills require decades to be honed. Either we're going to persevere with this guy and go through some frustrating years, or we're going to lose patience again, sack him and hire the Next Big Thing for the 4th or 5th time. In the short term, it's a no-win situation.


And there it is. We have to stop pandering to them. What can possibly be so complicated about a set of football instructions that our players 'can't understand'? We're chock full of touchy egos who don't like being told what to do IMO and will point the finger anywhere but at themselves.
 

JoeT

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2005
3,813
935
Ade is being a bit clev

Quite clever their from Ade. Talk about a back-handed compliment.



That doesn't sound like a very good manager at all if he can convey his ideas appropriately.
Maybe not a very good Manager, but an inexperienced one who cannot get his ideas across...yet.
 

JoeT

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2005
3,813
935
"This is the third or fourth manager in two or three years so we just have to stop it now being about the manager,"

Even though his application and attitude are not always 100% I think this is spot on.

There is some deep lying mental problems embedded in the squad. Look at the improvements in the performance of many of the players that leave (siigy, hudd etc) or the often unrealised development of our new signings whilst they are here. Not all but most.

We have a technically better squad than most teams in our league, with the ability to get these players before all except the top 4 or 5 but still routinely get out played and out fought, recently at home.

A less than positive atmosphere may have some impact but that cannot be the whole story.

I would be fascinated to see what would have happened if Sanchez had for example joined us and Arsenal had Soldado. I bet Soldado would be banging them in by now.

We are rotten and a new manager will not change this. Maybe trading the whole squad? Just a thought...
Good post, but your "Just a thought" was probably made with tongue firmly in cheek eh 'Nayim....'??
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
There are footballers with character who are winners. There are gutless footballers who are losers. The former work hard and look at themselves when things go wrong. The latter look for excuses when things go wrong and blame everything but themselves. It does not need a genius to work out which category this gutless Spurs team fall into.
First they blame the pitch and now us. They are pathetic. God help us.

Stop believing what you read in the press and hear in the media.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Jul 21, 2003
8,642
9,313
You try going to watch that fucking disgrace of a team then. They deserve a fucking slap, let alone a bit of halftime/fulltime booing!! That first half on Sunday was the worst performance I've seen at The Lane in twenty years, no bullshit.

You have a poor memory! Granted it was very bad, but I have seen worse.
 

eddiebailey

Well-Known Member
Oct 12, 2004
7,452
6,672
I really think we need to place more emphasis on intelligence when signing players. These players couldn't understand what AVB wanted & now they're struggling to understand what Poch expects.

Or perhaps we should employ managers who are better at communicating their ideas? Or who have ideas that work?
 

davidmatzdorf

Front Page Gadfly
Jun 7, 2004
18,106
45,030
And there it is. We have to stop pandering to them. What can possibly be so complicated about a set of football instructions that our players 'can't understand'? We're chock full of touchy egos who don't like being told what to do IMO and will point the finger anywhere but at themselves.

You've misunderstood my sentence. Every high-level team in any sport is packed with difficult-to-manage egos. Spurs are no different. The point was that Redknapp's skills in manipulating a group of those people into a happy, enthusiastic and supportive team is underrated, because it's bloody hard to get it right.

'Stop pandering to them' is just a pointless comment. Proper management of high-functioning professionals (a university department or a research lab as much as a football team) involves a complex mixture of indulgence, discipline, support, direction, listening, confidence-building and cracking down on bad behaviour.

If it's so that Pochettino has those abilities, then we will have to grind through however many seasons it takes until he can get his team functioning as he wants it to function. But posting 'stop pandering to them,' just sounds as if you misunderstand Redknapp's abilities as much as most other Spurs supporters. His players understood them.
 

Main Man

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2013
2,314
1,699
Well said!

But, does the current squad have characters of the strength of King, VdV, Modric, Bale and Keane? We seem to have a team of passengers, do we have a player other than perhaps Lloris who has the tenacity or ability to grab the other players by the scruff of the neck and say 'Come on Lads, not today, not on my watch, dont give up now, we've got this'

Well we had Dawson, Holtby and Sandro, but Poch sold them...
 

Main Man

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2013
2,314
1,699
If it's so that Pochettino has those abilities, then we will have to grind through however many seasons it takes until he can get his team functioning as he wants it to function. But posting 'stop pandering to them,' just sounds as if you misunderstand Redknapp's abilities as much as most other Spurs supporters. His players understood them.

Pochettino clearly doesn't have this ability though, Adebayor has just confirmed that so far the players don't know what is wanted from them.

Seriously, how the fuck is that possible?

It is actually embarrassing.

I watched on Sunday, and it was all far too inevitable. We all turned up knowing what would happen. I didn't even get angry when we conceded, I actually chuckled to myself. If it wasn't for the surprising and spectacular nature of our goal, that wouldn't have got a reaction either.

We are so predictable it is untrue.

And that level of predictability lies squarely at the feet of the manager.
 

Sweetsman

Well-Known Member
Jan 30, 2011
6,673
6,588
Quite so. An ideal would be to keep Pochettino as our young coach learning on the job and have Harry as his assistant/mentor -- a nice semi-retirement gig if the latter's ego could take it.

True, but in the last couple of weeks Pochettino has been tactically bested by Pardew and Hughes, at home. That's a worry.
It's not really a worry: they both have relatively settled squads and it can happen. It could be said that MP bested Koeman and Wenger. Brad said that we wouldn't see the effects of MP's methods until Dec/Jan, so a bit of patience is needed.
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Well Brad Friedel said similar on Radio 5 before the Man City game, he said it would take until December or January until we see the players properly playing Pochettinos 'style' and for it to start to really show. Just hope the players are actually willing and more importantly able to understand it because it certainly isn't working so far

I would maybe just feel better if Mourinho, Allardyce and Koemans links were saying the same.
 

bigspurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2005
3,193
2,419
You have a poor memory! Granted it was very bad, but I have seen worse.

You've got to be shitting me?! Were you there?! Did you actually see the game?! Name one game that featured a worst first half in the last twenty years or so.
 
Top