Tottenham close to £400m stadium sponsorship

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#41
If this is true, this will be amazing. No debt for the club could possibly mean lower ticket prices for the fans.
 

MattyP

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#42
If this is true, this will be amazing. No debt for the club could possibly mean lower ticket prices for the fans.
Well, that last bit is never going to happen.

Personally I'll wait for an official announcement before giving Levy any credit over stadium financing. But if it is confirmed at this level I would be phenomenally impressed.
 

Graysonti

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#43
Well, that last bit is never going to happen.

Personally I'll wait for an official announcement before giving Levy any credit over stadium financing. But if it is confirmed at this level I would be phenomenally impressed.
Also, does the 400 include shirt sponsorship?
 

JimmyG2

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#44
In view of the moral considerations could we not call it the
'My Qatar gently weeps Stadium'?

Where's me coat?
 

MattyP

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#45
Also, does the 400 include shirt sponsorship?
If the story is true about it being £400m over 20 years, there's no way that would include shirt sponsorship for the entire duration.

£400m over 20 years is £20m a year. We make close to that per year today in shirt sponsorship alone.
 

Lilbaz

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#46
If the story is true about it being £400m over 20 years, there's no way that would include shirt sponsorship for the entire duration.

£400m over 20 years is £20m a year. We make close to that per year today in shirt sponsorship alone.
Shirt sponsorship will be included. at the moment we make £12.5m - 15m from shirt sponsorship a season. Remember Madison Square Garden only got $300m from JP Morgan for their sponsorship deal. £20m a season is about right. Liverpool and Man Utd get a lot more because they have a massive fan base around the world that sadly we don't.
 

MattyP

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#47
Shirt sponsorship will be included. at the moment we make £12.5m - 15m from shirt sponsorship a season. Remember Madison Square Garden only got $300m from JP Morgan for their sponsorship deal. £20m a season is about right. Liverpool and Man Utd get a lot more because they have a massive fan base around the world that sadly we don't.
Sorry, but I disagree.

We make £12.5m-£15m in shirt sponsorship today, I don't disagree on that.

What I disagree on is that Levy would sign us up to a 20 year deal, that includes shirt and stadium naming rights, for another £5m-£7.5m a year.

Just doesn't make sense to lock yourself in to such a long term deal that includes shirt sponsorship. It would take away a major source of potential increase in revenue for two decades, just wouldn't make any sense at all for that length of time. Especially if ENIC want to sell us - there's very little scope for any new owners to increase our revenue by locking us in on both counts for so long.

As time has passed, it's been widely recognised that the gooners sold their rights to both too cheaply. I don't think Levy would run the risk of the same accusation by tieing us in to an even longer deal.

And I mean that as a compliment to Levy.
 

camaj

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#48
If we're getting £15m today there's no way we'd settle for £20m a year for shirt sponsorship.

£400m would be amazing, even if it was spread out. It would imagine we'd be able to borrow against that amount, so it's the next best thing to cash. I would imagine that we'd be able to use £380m or so from that with the rest going on interest.

It means that we wouldn't have to worry about funding loan repayments so the extra income could be spent on the team rather than paying off the loan.

I do hope though that the final stadium has 60,001 seats or that we're able to expand later. We won't fill that every week, not right away, but we wouldn't need to. We'd fill it in big games where it's almost impossible to get a ticket nowadays. It would also mean that it'd be possible to lower ticket prices when demand is low. They might not chose to do that but it would at least give them an option
 

Spursidol

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#49
If this is true I would like to see a better stadium development personally as the current development is just not worth £400 million

As I understand it the £400m includes the stadium, 285 flats, a supermarket and some office space - not just the stadium.

My guess is that the cost of the stadium by itself is closer to £200m - I assume the flats and supermarket will be sold on at a profit (although some may be retained and an annual income/rent will be received from then).

I assume the development will be paid for by some form of project finance (in effect structured bank loans repayable over a period of time) or a bond issue or similar. The interest on these will be significant - a simple example shows that if £400m is repaid over 20 years @ 10% pa the total interest paid over 20 years is circa £400m, or if all flats & stadium are sold then repayment of £200m over 20 years incurs £200m total interest, ie to repay £200m capital and interest over 20 years might be a total of £400m (the same as the stadium naming rights over 20 years) - so in other words such a deal repays the stadium and allows the club to use shirt sponsorship, gate receipts and other income to fund TH Plc and the football club. So if we can get £400m for the stadium naming rights alone, its a great deal.
 

Lilbaz

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#50
Still can't see it being for naming rights alone. They could buy the club for less than that.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

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#51
Sorry, but I disagree.

We make £12.5m-£15m in shirt sponsorship today, I don't disagree on that.

What I disagree on is that Levy would sign us up to a 20 year deal, that includes shirt and stadium naming rights, for another £5m-£7.5m a year.

Just doesn't make sense to lock yourself in to such a long term deal that includes shirt sponsorship. It would take away a major source of potential increase in revenue for two decades, just wouldn't make any sense at all for that length of time. Especially if ENIC want to sell us - there's very little scope for any new owners to increase our revenue by locking us in on both counts for so long.

As time has passed, it's been widely recognised that the gooners sold their rights to both too cheaply. I don't think Levy would run the risk of the same accusation by tieing us in to an even longer deal.

And I mean that as a compliment to Levy.
Would the shirt sponsorship and naming rights sponsorship have to be the same length? They might make more of an impact if they do both at the beginning. Maybe a 5 year shirt contract at £20m a year then £15m a year for 20 years on the naming?
 

Kendall

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#52
Yeah I can't see a shirt deal being for 20 years, you only have to look at the last 10 years to see how the income from that sort of sponsorship has increased. Especially as we're on the cusp of winning the title ;-)
 

MattyP

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#53
Would the shirt sponsorship and naming rights sponsorship have to be the same length? They might make more of an impact if they do both at the beginning. Maybe a 5 year shirt contract at £20m a year then £15m a year for 20 years on the naming?
This I could see - an element of shirt sponsorship being included but not for the full duration.
 

brasil_spur

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#54
Still can't see it being for naming rights alone. They could buy the club for less than that.
I'm not sure they could, given that we have around £100m of player assets in Bale, Modric, and vdV alone.

I think the club may be worth something like that currently, but i can't ENIC accepting that offer, and if we get CL again this season and the NDP is off the ground by summer then i'd say that adds a fair chunk to the value of the club, or at least it's short term future value.

£20m per year for 20 years of shirt and stadium sponsorship is a crap deal IMO.

In fact £20m for 20 years of shirt sponsorship is also pretty crap. Look at how much this has increased in value in the last 5 years, during an almost global economic downturn. In 15 years time i would imagine, if we are in a similar position league wise as we are now, that we will be signing £30-50m a year shirt sponsorship deals.

Again the same thing i thin can be said for Stadium sponsorship, it's only really started to take off here in the last 5-10 years, but i think within 10 years the vast majority of Stadiums in the PL will have sold off their naming rights.

Again £20m a year might seem like a lot now, but it is only twice what Arsenal got 5 years ago, and again in 10-15 years i think £20m a year will be a pretty average amount for naming rights.

In my opinion the fact that the deal is a 20 year deal shows why it is viable for both parties.

I very much doubt that a £20m a year stadium rights sponsorship deal over the next 5 years would be at all attractive to anyone.
 

Adam456

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#55
Have you every bought anything made by Addidas, or Hugo Boss, or Bayern Medical (world's biggest pharmaceutical company)? - if the answer to any of these is YES then you have supported companies that directly supported or worked for the Nazi's in and after WWII.

How about that nice shiny mobile phone you own - how many oppressed Chinese workers (basically slaves) were involved in producing that for you?

Or those diamonds you buy your special other, even the non blood diamonds are basically all controlled by De Beer's, set-up by Cecil Rhodes, of Rhodesia fame - now Zimbabwe - you may have heard that they're not a fan of white people there - there's a really good reason for this.

Point is that there are hundreds of everyday company's that have very murky backgrounds, so for me this is just another one.
I have no problem with industrialisation in general. It will ultimately lead to these people have higher living standards, access to healthcare, education, ability to travel (my degree was in Economics and I work in investment banking :) )

The rest was too long ago for me although I confess that I never buy diamonds, Addidas or Hugo Boss on taste grounds anyway :) :shake:
 

Adam456

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#56
Are you sure you're not confusing Qatar with Bahrein, Qatar is an absolute Monarchy with pretty drachonian rules on migrant employees but I don;t know that it's among the worst in the Arab world and they were the first to give Women the vote.

Still £400million means we build the stadium with no debt, or at least with the debt covered by this sponsorship leaving all other income for the team.
Dream time!!! wow!
While there are individual differences I was basically referring to the vast majority of middle-east states. Nearly all oppress women and minorities and have terrible records on human rights
 

Lilbaz

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#57
I'm not sure they could, given that we have around £100m of player assets in Bale, Modric, and vdV alone.

I think the club may be worth something like that currently, but i can't ENIC accepting that offer, and if we get CL again this season and the NDP is off the ground by summer then i'd say that adds a fair chunk to the value of the club, or at least it's short term future value.

£20m per year for 20 years of shirt and stadium sponsorship is a crap deal IMO.

In fact £20m for 20 years of shirt sponsorship is also pretty crap. Look at how much this has increased in value in the last 5 years, during an almost global economic downturn. In 15 years time i would imagine, if we are in a similar position league wise as we are now, that we will be signing £30-50m a year shirt sponsorship deals.

Again the same thing i thin can be said for Stadium sponsorship, it's only really started to take off here in the last 5-10 years, but i think within 10 years the vast majority of Stadiums in the PL will have sold off their naming rights.

Again £20m a year might seem like a lot now, but it is only twice what Arsenal got 5 years ago, and again in 10-15 years i think £20m a year will be a pretty average amount for naming rights.

In my opinion the fact that the deal is a 20 year deal shows why it is viable for both parties.

I very much doubt that a £20m a year stadium rights sponsorship deal over the next 5 years would be at all attractive to anyone.
According to Forbes we were worth $412m (£261m) in April 2011. This would have gone up slightly over the last year as the money from CL was not included nor the land purchases we have made. But I doubt it would have gone up massively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs#2011_rankings

You're correct that the values of contracts for shirt sponsors have gone up massively over the last few years, but will they continue to do so? I have no idea but eve if they do I can't see it being at the same rate. I'll leave it for Daniel to decide as he has a better idea than I do.
 

brasil_spur

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#58
According to Forbes we were worth $412m (£261m) in April 2011. This would have gone up slightly over the last year as the money from CL was not included nor the land purchases we have made. But I doubt it would have gone up massively.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forbes'_list_of_the_most_valuable_football_clubs#2011_rankings

You're correct that the values of contracts for shirt sponsors have gone up massively over the last few years, but will they continue to do so? I have no idea but eve if they do I can't see it being at the same rate. I'll leave it for Daniel to decide as he has a better idea than I do.
Agree with you on the Forbes figures obviously, however that's the value of the club, not the value for which ENIC would sell the club.

My business gets offers all the time from competitors and most of them make a similar mistake, the value of my business is not the value that my business is worth to me, although in fairness they always add on more than the actual of the value of the business on paper.

Basically given those numbers i'd say Spurs is probably worth £300m these days according to Forbes, assuming we hit CL this season and the NDP is off the ground i reckon you can add another £50-75m on top of that amount.

So we're creeping up to the point where the club itself is worth close to £400m.

At that point i can't see ENIC wanting to sell up for any less than £550-600m.

Remember if the club continues with its success then its value will only increase, and frankly with the NDP and tottenham regeneration in place and a team which is there or there abouts in the top 6 of the prem each season, run as financially well as Spurs is, i can't see the value of the club dropping any time soon.
 

sloth

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#59
Still can't see it being for naming rights alone. They could buy the club for less than that.
But just because you want the brand exposure that sponsoring a PL football club gives you, doesn't mean you want to buy the club. They're two entirely different propositions.
 

JimmyG2

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#60
But just because you want the brand exposure that sponsoring a PL football club gives you, doesn't mean you want to buy the club. They're two entirely different propositions.
I don't think that he is suggesting that its an either/ or proposition.
But if you could buy the the club for a similar amount you could stick your name on the stadium, or get your money back by selling the naming rights and get all the brand exposure you could dream of by having a succesful Premiership club in the Champions' League.
In other words it doesn't make sense to pay a similar amount for the naming rights, with or without the shirt deal, when the whole caboodle would cost something in the same (foot)ball park.
You could farm out the management if it wasn't your (onion)bag.