Tottenham Hotspur vs Juventus - Match Thread

slartibartfast

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It’s only this teams 2nd season in the CL so I’d say it’s a learning curve. We improved hugely vs last season in th CL, if we take that level of learning and improvement next season if we r in it we should reach around the semis if we get a good draw
Anyone remember the 'learning curve' Man City were kindly bestowed by the media in their first few seasons in CL despite the fact they'd spent millions?
And yet we're expected to do it in only our 3rd ever attempt against the hardest group and one of the supposedly best teams in it.
We were the best team.
We're going places.
So strap yourselves in, stf up and get ready to eat your words when we lift the FA cup this season all you moaning wet blankets.
Christ we go on about how entitled arse fans are, imagine what this lot are gonna be like if we start winning things :facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:
 

slartibartfast

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That's not the point though. This team has also finished 3rd and 2nd in the last 2 seasons and lost an FA cup semi final we pretty much should have won last season. They were all classed as learning curves as well.

My point is how many of these learning curves are they going to need?

We hear almost on the daily at this stage that our players want the big money and want to win trophies. I've yet to see evidence that any of them are up to the task of earning that money or winning that trophy when it's come to the crunch of big games. Is that because they have to go on another learning curve? Is it fuck. They're good enough to do it. No more lessons. No more learning curves. Get the job done and prove that you're worth the money you say you are. Strap on a pair and do the job.
I just post about straps and then I read your post.
So we're all agreed we need some straps yeah lol?
 

fortworthspur

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Saying it was lack of experience seems to imply that are players didn't know what they are supposed to be doing. I don't think being older makes you unable to manage games. We didn't take our chances and didn't react to their substitutions not unlike the defeat to Chelsea in the FA cup.
I think it has more to do with mentality. Our players were probably a little nervous in likely the biggest game of their careers. Juve has played dozens of those games and won every trophy in Italy multiple times in the last decade. Our players thought they could win, Juve knew they could. I dont know when it turns - when we finally win one of those I suppose.
 

Streetspur77

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Sorry but I just do not agree with this 'Juventus showed their experience' crap.
Watch the match. I watched highlights again today.
They were shit lucky not to be 3 or 4 nil down before they scored.
Even after they went in front it wasn't an "old boy masterclass in defending.' They were getting battered again and got through by the skin of their teeth.
Games of this level are decided by fine margins.
It wasn't some tactical masterplan by Juventus.
The best team lost.
It happens.
This is how Barcelona and Bayern Munich felt against Chelsea when they won it.
Was that a Masterclass of experience from Chelsea? Was it fk. They were shit lucky. End of.
And some of the shit our so called fans are coming out with, well they can fkin do one as well. Clueless twats.
Can't winner this enough times
 

Streetspur77

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Wish people would stop talking about learning curves. We've had so many learning curves we might as well just be going round in circles.

I'm positive about where the club is going and what we are trying to achieve but just once I'd love for us to not actually learn the lesson but give the shitting lesson
What a load of bollocks.

Yes suprisingly enough it does take a lot of learning to go from an inconsistent, middle/upper table team with (let's be honest) no real trophy in 27 odd years, to a team capable of dominating European elites and competing for the upper echelons of the league each year, without the backing of a country like city do. And sorry to break it to you but this won't be the last learning curve either.

Also we dish out multiple lessons a season, how do you think Huddersfield fans felt when we beat them 1-4 in their own back yard? Or when we beat Rochdale 6-1?
 

slartibartfast

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Anyone hear Redknapp on TS this morning?
He summed it up for me. Was something like this-
Brazil asked should Poch have made a change earlier.
'Spurs were well on top and in total control. Why would Poch make a change then?
And never in his wildest dreams did the Juventus manager think his subs would have the result like it did. And even then Spurs still threatened for the next 20mins. Juventus were hanging on.'
This is football.
The best team doesnt always win.
Thats the truth of it. You can analyse the crap out of it but sometimes shit happens.
See Wigan v Man City FA cup.
 
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UbeAstard

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Anyone hear Redknapp on TS this morning?
He summed it up for me. Was something like this-
Brazil asked should Poch have made a change earlier.
'Spurs were well on top and in total control. Why would Poch make a change then?
And never in his wildest dreams did the Juventus manager think his subs would have the result like it did. And even then Spurs still threatened for the next 20mins. Juventus were hanging on.'
This is football.
The best team doesnt always win.
Thats the truth of it. You can analyse the crap out of it but sometimes shit happens.
See Wigan v Man City FA cup.
That's why he is a top manager and top clubs are chasing him and he's won loads of things, Rednapp...
 

DEFchenkOE

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Just watched the game to make myself sad again ! Its funny how the pundits' narrative chages based on hindsight. Chiellini was' vunerable, slow and a liability' in the first half but ended up the greatest defender known to man. I thought Steve Geerrard was very good and he made it clear that we totally dominated the majority of both games and were pretty unlucky. Driving home last night, I had to put up with Jason (' fun boy) Cundy basically blaming the whole thing on Poch being ' schooled' by Allegri - ridiculous, the game should probably have been out of reach before he made his 'genius' tactical moves. I dread to think what the prize pratt , Adrian Durham, wll come up with later. The media now seems to be shifting its narrative a bit from ' Spurs must win silverware or they will self combust' to ' the reason Spurs aren't winning silverware is down to Poch and what if they had a Mourninho, Conte or Allegri'. This was the Champions Leage not the Carabou Cup. It's tough and we would have been one of the outsiders in the last 8. There are only so many trophies to go round and just to be competing at the sharp end of them ( including the top 4 race) is an achievement in itself.
The same Allegri that was out thought by the tactical genius that is Harry Redknapp over 180 mins.
 

swarvsta

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Adrian Durham decided to go with 3 hours of a show called ‘Are Tottenham the biggest bottlers in football history...”

Absolute shit as usual. Can’t believe he pretends he is a journalist.

So many calls from Spurs fans that I truly pray weren’t real fans.
 

sak11

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It’s only this teams 2nd season in the CL so I’d say it’s a learning curve. We improved hugely vs last season in th CL, if we take that level of learning and improvement next season if we r in it we should reach around the semis if we get a good draw
exactly.... we are showing a year-on-year improvement on an upward curve. We all know we have the 6th highest wages (actually being closer to 7th than 5th) and we are restricted in terms of spend on our squad so you can't expect the team to just go and beat europe's elite at the first or second time of asking... some people need to go and have a look at how moneybags Manchester city did in their first 4 seasons in the champions league (with a much bigger wage bill than us)...
 

Gaz_Gammon

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Gaz, it's a tough one. IF Moura, Rose, Victor, Toby and even Lamela are match fit, we have fantastic options off the bench but being match fit is the prob
Only Toby would be out. We had gone seventeen games unbeaten, but at CL knock out stages we just don't have the quality.

I am not moaning about that fact because i know we never will.

What i feel we could do better is play to hold a lead by changing tactics in games like this.

Get that goal up and then shut up shop, defend to a man and to hell with style marks and credibility.

The Italians have been doing it for decades.
 

ohtottenham!

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A couple of days later, processing that tie; and my take is that, at no point anywhere along those two legs did either team have a clear advantage.

From when they went 2-0 up inside 10 mins in the first leg to when Son scored to give us the advantage in the second, or when they got the two quick goals. Right up until Kane hit the post with his header at the death in the 2nd leg. There was nothing between these teams.

There was plenty that happened in between...missed penalties, uncalled penalties; both of which gave us an advantage, and some missed opportunities and mistakes by both sides. We dominated possession in both games, but as far as clear opportunities on goal, I'd say it was a wash.

Love how we came back from 2-0 down in the 1st leg and battled to the end in the 2nd. Really fine margins at this level, and the experience will be so valuable for us going forward.
 

ohtottenham!

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Only Toby would be out. We had gone seventeen games unbeaten, but at CL knock out stages we just don't have the quality.

I am not moaning about that fact because i know we never will.

What i feel we could do better is play to hold a lead by changing tactics in games like this.

Get that goal up and then shut up shop, defend to a man and to hell with style marks and credibility.

The Italians have been doing it for decades.
You don't know that.
 

Gaz_Gammon

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You don't know that.
My first Spurs game was in 1965.

I do know that we will never, ever finish above, or win a major competition against teams who have spent close to three quarters of a billion pounds.

Jeezz we couldn't win the league when there was no TV money or billionaire owners.
 

ohtottenham!

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My first Spurs game was in 1965.

I do know that we will never, ever finish above, or win a major competition against teams who have spent close to three quarters of a billion pounds.

Jeezz we couldn't win the league when there was no TV money or billionaire owners.
We're a similar age.1966 for me and it was at the Lane against Utd.
We've already finished above everyone that's had more money than us in recent seasons; City, Utd, Chels, Liverpool, Arsenal at different times. We just haven't won shit! I get your point about us not winning a major competitition.
 

VegasII

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It's a pity our fun run came to an end at the hands of an old lady with a strap on, but oh well. Wayne Rooney knows a bit about that.
 

slartibartfast

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That's why he is a top manager and top clubs are chasing him and he's won loads of things, Rednapp...
Ah sarcasm.
And yet his opinion and knowedge of football still outweighs yours by quite some way as he has managed a top club in us and won the FA Cup with Portsmouth.
Then theres you who has not managed or played for anyone and have won fk all.
 

sebo_sek

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I've seen so much praise of Allegri among forums and pundits this morning and I don't really buy it. Every analysis done with the benefit of hindsight of course and with little or no regard to how complex these tactical decisions are in real time.

Our game plan was working perfectly until their first goal and the second goal came just minutes after. So you're proposing that Pochettino should have subbed on Wanyama or gone three at the back as soon as Asamoha and Lichetensteiner came on? Higuan scored in the 64th minute, that's 4 minutes after Lichtenstein came on (...which was the sub that really changed the tide of the match imo). I'd understand the criticism if we would have seen tendencies of Juventus actually creating chances before the first goal but there wasn't in my opinion. That goal came from nowhere and completely changed the match.

A more cynical coach might have changed things directly after their first goal. I can understand that viewpoint and it would probably have been the right call but you can't blame Pochettino for not being tactically aware for the first goal. Unless you're proposing that we should have parked the bus directly in the second half but that could have been equally devastating as it might have left oceans of time for Juventus to just go at us.

If Allegri is such a mastermind we wouldn't have outplayed them for 60 minutes. We football fans put far too much emphasize on tactics sometimes. You could as easily just point out that one of Dier / Sanchez / Vertonghen should have had his eyes pinned at Higuain for their first goal - just as Chiellini had his on Kane. For their second goal our press play didn't work and Higuain was allowed put a dangerous through ball down our back four and furthermore Trippier stopped tracking Dybala because he deemed it an offside. Individual errors? Tactical nuance? It's probably a combination of both but the latter usually gets far too much attention.

What ultimately let us down was inexperience. Even though Juventus were pressed back they kept they calm and took their chances when they occurred and then closed the match. All in all we have to consider how far we've come as a club, we've had a tremendous CL run considering the opponents we drew. I'm certain we'll learn from this and I can guarantee you that no team will cheer if they draw us next year in the CL.
Of course we shouldn't have parked the bus from the beginning of the second half. But we should have parked the bus IMMEDIATELY AFTER THEY SCORED. That would have given us time to get our heads back in the game. Notice that is precisely what Juve did the second they scored goal 2. They ddidn't care. They knew that now the ball was in our court. We showed against Real that we know how to do it. This is a huge learning curve for Poch and it was a scenario that should have been discussed.Parking the bus would have allowed us to counter. Even making a sub or two after they scored would have slowed the game down.

Still, I am super proud of the lads. What this game has shown however is that in order for us to compete with the big dicks of the football world all our players need to be 120% focused and we need to take all the big chances that come our way. Juve had several half chances that they fluffed, but the moment they got their two sitters, they buried them. That's the difference.
 

sebo_sek

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Seriously Chiellini is overrated isn't he? The praise for him is way too over-the-top. That was like saying Huth and Morgan were the best defenders when Leicester won the league. Every 1out of 2 fouls Chiellini committed could well be bookable in the PL.
Chiellini is probably in the top 5 CBs of the last decade mate. He is a dirty fucker, but boy is he effective. Plus the passion he and Buffon have for Juve is something Poch should be replaying for our boys over and over. Dislike him as a human being, super respect him as a CB.
 
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