What's new

Tottenham Hotspur vs Juventus - Match Thread

rio bryan

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2006
547
350
Not being clinical is not the only reason we were out. We had the advantage of two away goals to defend and we didnt. The onus was for us to protect that marginal lead by either increasing the lead, or defend what we already had. As we were weren't clinical as you said, once they scored we should have had the ability to then lock shop, the same way Juventus did once they went to 2-1 up. So to use your words "at this level" the relevant game management was lacking, that's why we are out. I sure that taking the same scenario with the same set of players on the pitch from both team, another manager like Mourhino would not have lost. (Not trying to get rid of Poch as I love him for us, just highlighting his inexperience "at this level")
So your the saying the same player's wouldn't have made mistakes under Mourhinho ?
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Match Thread Admin
Oct 17, 2006
10,690
25,246
So your the saying the same player's wouldn't have made mistakes under Mourhinho ?
You have either missed the point or is just playing stupid, either I cannot be asked to explain any further
 

rio bryan

Well-Known Member
Dec 30, 2006
547
350
You have either missed the point or is just playing stupid, either I cannot be asked to explain any further
Your calling me stupid when you posted a comment "I sure that taking the same scenario with the same set of players on the pitch from both team, another manager like Mourhino would not have lost" like Mourinho's players haven't made a mistake all season !!!!

Anyway's whats Poch's experience got to do with player's making mistake's ? he could have game managed the game better by having 10 players back defending but if one makes a mistake your still going to let in goal's ! then no doubt you would have been on here saying " why did we sit back when we was in control" i do luv you lot who are always wise after the event !!!!
 
Last edited:

sunnydelight786

Chief Rocka
Jan 7, 2007
6,075
4,241
I’m sure plenty have already seen ‘King Kong’s’ interview already but I’ve just come across it now as I’ve avoided social media since Wednesday.

Sadly he’s brutally honest about us as that’s the perception other big clubs have of us and the only way to shake that off is by winning games that matter. Sadly when it really matters we have a inability to ‘get over the line’ and Juve played on that. Max Allegri has briefed them well and their players believed their chance would come.

One crumb of comfort is Juve were the same as us 4/5 years back in Europe, as King Kong said, and with experience have improved. Let’s hope we do too!

 

Thepiestand

New Member
Mar 8, 2018
2
2
All this stuff about Chiellini. He's just pressing buttons for the hell of it, more fool him. Why are Spurs fans taking it to heart? It's BS. It was just a game. If we have to look at Ferguson, and his 5 years before winning anything, then it's just this, put fear aside. Spurs are right there.
 

Woodyy

Well-Known Member
Jan 3, 2016
1,402
3,391
I know it's only football but this loss has gutted me more than any other for a long time. I hope the players can pick themselves up better than me.. We really need to win the FA cup this season now..
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
So your the saying the same player's wouldn't have made mistakes under Mourhinho ?[/QUOTEen
Maybe he's saying Mourinho would have got in the players ears about concentration the first time Juventus overwhelmed us before they scored, or he may have changed the shape to make us more compact. Durham on Talksport the day after says there was a 2nd occasion before Juventus scored when they went close after we were again loose. I think at that point someone like Mourinho would certainly be making changes. Juventus then went on to score their first goal, and maybe I missed it but I could still see no changes or instructions be indicated by Poch while we were still in a winning position. The rest is history.....
 

UbeAstard

Well-Known Member
May 31, 2005
3,354
2,413
Juventus went super defensive the second they got in front because they'd done the square root of fk all the whole game and were hanging on.
We were on top and had ample opportunities to score.
Had Poch gone defensive immediately after they scored and they had scored another anyway you'd be saying the opposite. 'We were on top, we were cteating chances, they'd done fk all, why go defensive when theyd only jad 1 chance?'
Easy in hindsight.
We had them where we wanted them for 85min of the match, camped intheir own half.
We weren't clinical enough in front of goal.
Thats where the fault was.

Because they changed to go more offensive and when that starts causing problems you didn't have before, its pretty stupid in my eyes to just believe youre going to exploit the spaces they have left before they get what they need, when you could/should tighten up and take the steam out of their heads as your need not to concede is greater than your need to score.
 
Last edited:

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I’m sure plenty have already seen ‘King Kong’s’ interview already but I’ve just come across it now as I’ve avoided social media since Wednesday.

Sadly he’s brutally honest about us as that’s the perception other big clubs have of us and the only way to shake that off is by winning games that matter. Sadly when it really matters we have a inability to ‘get over the line’ and Juve played on that. Max Allegri has briefed them well and their players believed their chance would come.

One crumb of comfort is Juve were the same as us 4/5 years back in Europe, as King Kong said, and with experience have improved. Let’s hope we do too!



I think we do have an issue, but it’s not one of a lack of bollocks or weak mentality, it’s almost the opposite, it’s more a lack of nous, pragmatism and tactical acumen of Pochettino.

To say “when it really matters we have an inability to get over the line” isn’t a whole truth. Beating Real, Dortmund twice and beating all of our PL rivals in recent seasons proves we aren’t big game legends and that we have a strong mentality.

But there have been a few big occasions where we come up against that combination of extremely good tactical managers with extremely strong teams and Poch’s method of front foot only football can just come unstuck a little.

More experienced tacticians would drill their teams into what to do when you have a two goal lead in such a big game. Poch’s approach was just a little bit naive, a little bit one dimensional (albeit a very positive one dimension) and his tactical in game management has always been a bit lacking. It’s one of the reasons his Southampton and Spurs first couple of years gave up more points from winning positions than any other team (again, the flip side being how good his teams were for the first 60 and also how good his teams are at recovering lost points).

I thought last season he’d improved, and early this season too (Real, Liverpool eg) and in general I think he is, we have to remember he’s a young coach and we also aren’t buying in experienced winners. But we also have to accept that Poch isn’t a Mourinho, Conte type of ultra pragmatist and there is always a fine line between bravery and stupidity.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
As much as I think Poch was a little naive in his approach second half, I think everyone is giving Allegri - and Juve - way too much credit.

Being tactically proficient or having a winning mentality isn’t allowing a novice like Spurs back into a game you are winning 2-0 or allowing them a shed load of opportunities to kill the game in the second leg either.

And Allegri’s tactical change wasn’t particularly offensive - he was largely trying close out our wide attacking play, seeing Barzagli struggle to cope with Son etc.

It wasn’t tactical genius really, and the second, vital goal had absolutely nothing to do with the changes.
 

naumanfaizi

Member
Oct 19, 2006
46
33
I'm not quite sure if the question here is one of naivete on Poch's part. On another day, Kane's header goes in. Or Dybala doesn't score.
I guess I'm only repeating a cliche and a truism but the game is probabilistic.

And, on the balance, our game-plan against top teams this season has generated progressively more wins and draws than losses. That, for me, is a sign that tactical naivete is not quite where to look for when trying to make sense of this painful result. Of course, as Poch himself says, the team needs to and will learn from it.

It's the memory of this and losses like this one that, I believe, has progressively improved these players' performances against the top teams.

I think that's one of the most valuable things Poch has brought to the table --I imagine it's no accident that our remarkably improved performances in the CL this season came after our painful and catastrophic performance in the competition last year.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
I'm not quite sure if the question here is one of naivete on Poch's part. On another day, Kane's header goes in. Or Dybala doesn't score.
I guess I'm only repeating a cliche and a truism but the game is probabilistic.

But even if Kane had scored it wouldn’t have won us the he game, and Dybala’s chance was pretty clear cut.

And, on the balance, our game-plan against top teams this season has generated progressively more wins and draws than losses. That, for me, is a sign that tactical naivete is not quite where to look for when trying to make sense of this painful result. Of course, as Poch himself says, the team needs to and will learn from it.

It's the memory of this and losses like this one that, I believe, has progressively improved these players' performances against the top teams.

I think that's one of the most valuable things Poch has brought to the table --I imagine it's no accident that our remarkably improved performances in the CL this season came after our painful and catastrophic performance in the competition last year.

But I think the naivety comes in not instructing a team that has effectively got a two goal lead and 45 minutes to play how to adjust their mentality, structure and application accordingly.

You don’t have to go from being all front foot to complete shell, but you can drop the team back 10 yards, still try to control the ball, get everyone working defensively, and play on the counter a little more.

For example, if we were going to continue playing the high line we can’t just stop pressing the ball further up the pitch, no matter what phase we are in, we might get away with it against the PL’s fodder, but not against the very best teams.
 

thfc1973

Active Member
Apr 29, 2015
565
1,192
Not outplayed and not outfought.... just out-thought.

This is exactly why we lost the tie.

2-2 from the first leg and 1-0 up, we should have killed the game off. Either all out attack or lock up shop. Instead, we did neither... And therein lies the problem. Poch couldn't decide whether to stick or twist, but Allegri knew exactly what he needed from the game what he needed to do to win the game and made it happen. Say what you will, inexperience bad tactics, or bad luck but the bottom line is Allegri made changes to get the result he wanted Poch on the other hand didn't.
 
Top