Match Threads Tottenham Hotspur vs Liverpool FC

[piedpiper]

Fair enough. Who exactly are you going to sign and replace if you were given the choice? Is it depth? What is the weak link in our side. I agree we need more depth. But our first 11?

Because of the lack of depth and the quality of our first 11 (being where they were in the summer) we are tired and not sharp enough.



Chelsea ? How have they improved? The manager? Ok let’s sach Poch and get in David Moyes.

Liverpool have improved - agreed. But not United, Chelsea or Arsenal. City have only signed one player Mahrez. We need about 3 or 4 fifty million pound players if we really want to challenge for the title. We are not there yet. Our most expensive player is Davinson Sanchez for 40 mil. Followed by sissoko for 35. Our business and footballing model is not the blank cheque book approach. And it’s remarkable that you think otherwise.

Financially we are an upper middle class club reaching where we are through astute business and footballing leadership. It is inevitable that our star players will move on until we are in a position to do an Arsenal. Buy the big time players after our mortgage has been paid off. How can you not see that?

Do you honestly believe we will be able to compete with City/United/Chelsea/Liverpool when the stadium is paid up? Look at Arsenal right now.... Thats what we will become if we wait. As it stands i cant think of a single Arsenal player who gets into our team..... Not one player. The way i see it Arsenal are fast becoming a mid tier team. This is a result of not investing season on season with quality additions.

So many posters in the TW bemoaned our lack of ambition our lack of signings and not because they just wanted too. We dont want to become another Arsenal/Everton/Leicester etc.

Waiting to pay the stadium off is not the answer. Its scouting NOW, identifying targets NOW and most importantly getting them at the START of a transfer window and not at the end of it.

We did not freshen up the squad nor did we sell some average players, who i will not single out. We all know that CM was a glaring area of weakness... It required 75-90 million of outlay on 2-3 players in this area to give us every opportunity to stay relevant and compete in that top 4 bracket.

No point having a shiny new stadium which only benefits Enic.... I want to see us compete not just make up the numbers, because thats what waiting to pay off the mortgage will do.

 

[piedpiper]

other than the second half of United we've been in 3rd gear since the start of the season. I dont know why things aren't clicking but they will.

I actually think we've been in 3rd gear from the game when Kane was rushed back in March/April. We just been so lethargic/going through the motions from that point. Its not only in the last 5 games. A poster mentioned it a few pages back. This team barring Lucas Moura have been together for 4-5 seasons without an injection of real quality. We at a point of standing still or regressing if something is not done.

 

[dtxspurs]

Chelsea ? How have they improved? The manager? Ok let’s sach Poch and get in David Moyes.

Liverpool have improved - agreed. But not United, Chelsea or Arsenal. City have only signed one player Mahrez. We need about 3 or 4 fifty million pound players if we really want to challenge for the title. We are not there yet. Our most expensive player is Davinson Sanchez for 40 mil. Followed by sissoko for 35. Our business and footballing model is not the blank cheque book approach. And it’s remarkable that you think otherwise.

Financially we are an upper middle class club reaching where we are through astute business and footballing leadership. It is inevitable that our star players will move on until we are in a position to do an Arsenal. Buy the big time players after our mortgage has been paid off. How can you not see that?

That's bullshit, they bought 2 damn good midfielders (the position we needed the most remind you) and have a perfect record to start to show for it. Also, yeah Sarri is a really good coach and will improve them, no where did I say we should sack Poch.

The rest of it is also bullshit, literally every club in the league outspent us. Every. Single. One.

Is Tottenham Hotspur going to cease to exist cause we spend 100mil? It's a bullshit excuse. Sweet we can win the financial trophy yet again!

 

[dtxspurs]

To think we were interested in Wijnaldum, many on here he thought was slow and crap and not good enough for us, probably the same one's saying there was absolutely no-one we could bring in during the summer that would improve the first team. Apart from a fine set of teeth, perhaps klopp has insight that poch doesn't.

How much better would we be if we had Sane and Wijnaldum like Poch wanted? Instead of Nkoudou and Sissoko.

 

[dickieven]

Thankfully not if your post is anything to go by! Apologies if my opinion differs from yours but maybe it’s not just Poch who needs to get real. This team is not a happy one at the moment any fool can see that. The big question is, what do they do about it? Hopefully a couple of wins against the mighty Brighton and Huddersfield will get a bit of confidence back but if they don’t materialise Poch has a mighty big fuckoff hill to climb. Will Levy help him climb it in Jan? Let’s all hope so.

Thanks for the reply. I think we just differ in opinion. I do not see the big disaster or fuck up that others seem to be on about. There is nothing specific in our results that would suggest this season we are a disaster opposed to previous seasons. If we take the last 5 seasons after 5 games and compare....

2014-15 7 points including home defeats to Liverpool and WBA
2015-16 6 points. Only one win
2016-17 11 points. A great start but people were still moaning at the time re our slow play!
2017-18 8 points

So 9 points from 5 games is hardly disastrous. Agree it is not ideal but why signs of an unhappy team?

Our performances this year have not been great but look back at the other seasons and try to pick out strong performanes in those early games. There have not been many.

Poch himself has stated we needed a fast start and not be playing catch up but we haven't quite managed it again. I would say we are staying true to form for previous seasons than anything being fucked up this season. It is something Poch needs to look at as it does seem a consistent theme with him. Looking at our first 5 games, most would have taken 10 points I think, so we are not too far off that.

Other than Liverpool, none of the teams below us have strengthened enough in my view to say they are stronger. City still miles clear. Then us, Liverpool, Utd and Chelsea playing for 2nd to 5th. Same as last year. Still not sure where we have fucked up or why the players are noe disinterested.

Maybe at my age I remember getting 10th as a good year for us and I am now wallowing in a modicum of success. Maybe my expectations are lower. Maybe I am happy that I can see us play Inter and Barca in the Champions League in the next few weeks. Maybe I am happy that we are not spunking £100m on Lewis Cook and other bang average players. Yes I was pissed off yesterday at the result and the performance. I was surrounded by fake Liverpool fans singing their fucking stupid songs. I was very pissed off. But I still do not see the big fuck up or disaster that people are going on about.

Anyway we are all Spurs fans, so as you say, if we get 3 wins from Brighton, Huddersfield and Cardiff then maybe everyone can be friends again!

 

[heelspurs]

oh man, its going to be the theme of the season after every disappointing result. might as well get used to it.

Yeah, because the TW sets the squad for the year. Can't imagine why that would have an impact on a season's theme.

 

[heelspurs]

I'm yet to hear a player who we could have purchased realistically this summer just gone not 2 years ago.

Tanguy NDombele or Yves Bissouma for our MF problem. Both were available for diff financial levels. While we are at Lyon we could have said feck it to the 35M for Ndombele and just picked up Papa Cheik Diop on the cheap who actually looks like a player in the making that we perhaps should have gotten for the song that Celta was offering 2 TWs ago. Fabian Ruiz a very promising MF from Betis but now at Napoli. Abdou Diallo, left footed CB that plays like Jan with significantly more athletic ability to aid our backline instead of this silliness searching for Deligt. Denis Zakaria, promising athletic and decent ballplaying DM from Borussia Monchengladbach. Ben Heinrichs that moved from Leverkusen to Monaco for 15M and can cover both WB positions. All went or would have gone this summer just gone for reasonable prices ie less than Sissoko, save Ndombele.

Is that good enough? And that's just DF and MF. I could go on for the attack but that is not where we are in dire need of help. And that's not even mentioning Doucoure who Poch was supposedly making eyes at. He's not my cup of tea but he is better than anything we have in MF right now as displayed by the monstering he gave us 2 weeks ago. But as BC once said 'that' player is on every team in Ligue 1. And there is some merit in that opinion. We are trying to blaze our own path with the slow coaches in MF plodding away while passing backwards, directly to the opponents, or brilliantly splitting our own CBs time after time with aimless backpasses.

ps- Don't forget Pau Lopez going on a free to Betis...Don't really know what happened there.

 

[rupsmith]

That's bullshit, they bought 2 damn good midfielders (the position we needed the most remind you) and have a perfect record to start to show for it. Also, yeah Sarri is a really good coach and will improve them, no where did I say we should sack Poch.

The rest of it is also bullshit, literally every club in the league outspent us. Every. Single. One.

Is Tottenham Hotspur going to cease to exist cause we spend 100mil? It's a bullshit excuse. Sweet we can win the financial trophy yet again!

Well to summarise:

- your point is spend a 100 million (or two considering the cost of players today) to improve the squad with world class players to freshen us up and starting challenging for things;

- my point is that is a bullshit naive unrealistic suggestion suitable for Football Manager. Our primary focus is on completing that stadium which reports suggest is about a billion pounds. We have one of the best training centres in the world. These are models that will ensure financial sustainability - not some cash input from some super rich billionaire who wants some toys to play with to build his brand. We don't have some Middle Eastern royal family (City) or Russian tycoon (Chelsea, Arsenal) supporting us. Man United were winning things before not because of some "Busby Babes" philosophy. They could buy Berba, Carrick, Veron, Ferdinand, van Nistelrooy etc etc at record breaking amounts because of the money from their stadium - an 80k seater - and a top manager.

I have seen this club grow under Levy and Enic. They have made mistakes sure - and sometimes some pretty big ones. But generally the club has grown. The world knows who we are now. Top players have started thinking about coming to us. Our new stadium will welcome us this season. But till date we have always been punching well above our weight due to a brilliant manager and some astute financial leadership. Daniel Levy is a person who generally knows his stuff - he has squeezed top clubs for every single pound when they come sniffing - Berba, Bale, Modric, Keane etc. But our most expensive player is 40 million. The average cost of the players we have bought in is around the 30 million range. We are not going to be splurging 100 million on a player. That was not our model - particularly after we got burnt wasting the Bale money pretty much to satisfy the fan base. Look at most of our squad:
1) Kane - home grown. England captain because of Poch
2) Moura - highly talented winger. Looking the part after a few months at the club. 26 million
3) Eriksen - Denmark international. Brilliant consistent playmaker. 12 million
4) Sonny - South Korean captain. pacy winger with a knack for scoring. 27 million.
5) Lamela - winger/playmaker - 27 million
6) Alli - England international playmaker. 6 million
7) Winks - home grown
8) Dembele, Wanayama - midfield powerhouses - Belgium and Kenyan internationals. 17 and 13 million respectively
9) Eric Dier - England International. 4.5 million
10) Trippier - England International. Highly praised performances. The Bury Beckham. 4.5 million
11) Rose - home grown. England International.
12) Sanchez - Colombia International. Record buy. 40 million
13, 14) Vertoghen, Alderweireld - Belgium international - top class centre backs, 11 million and 14 million respectively.
15) Lloris - France world cup winning captain. 11 million.

Look at what those players have become from when we recruited them (brilliant football management) and the their costs (top financial management - and doesn't look like we ever have been Real frikkin Madrid have we?)

Even Liverpool only had that money after Countinho - and they fix their two main problems centre back and goalkeeper. Well done. We wasted all the Bale money and we will not do the big spending again. That is simply not our model. Poch knows that, but he wants to stay because he has the degree of control that he wants. He is not some ego massaging type coach. He runs a tight ship with players that grow as people and players. They players love that and its a good vibe at the club. Sure there are going to be a few more ups and downs but its up to us as fans to stay supportive - not overreact because of a couple of losses. The premier league is a tough league - but the fact that we are playing Inter Milan in mid week in the Champions League shows how far we have come. We are not going to be challenging CIty anytime soon so don't hold your breath. Still think this is all bs? Then listen to people who know the business (watch from 3:50 onwards):

 

[heelspurs]

All this talk of Cook, we should be going all out to sign the likes of Zaha. Star signings who will instantly get in the team and move us forward.

Let me get this straight so I can better understand your reasoning. Sometimes analogies are better for understanding. What you are proposing is putting a brand spankin new paint job on our old jalopy and neglecting the engine with the cracked head and transmission with the slipping clutch...and that will move us forward? Sounds like a plan.

FFS our MF was more of a threat to our own team than they were helpful to our attacking efforts. We could have had Messi right of Kane and Neymar left and still lost that game because we were dispossessed 112 times. We need a MF and WBs with more technical ability, more athleticism, and significantly more footballing intelligence before we concern ourselves with adding to our attack which is last priority.

 

[ohtottenham!]

lol at people thinking that was a pen

@Shadydan do you now think it is a Pen?

Yes on 2nd viewing

Lol'ing at people can bite you in the arse.

 

[heelspurs]

Lol'ing at people can bite you in the arse.

In Shady's defense he did man-up and take it on the chin whereas many would just cowardly ignore me @ them. But your point is a good one.

 

[ohtottenham!]

In Shady's defense he did man-up and take it on the chin whereas many would just cowardly ignore me @ them. But your point is a good one.

Shady's a sound poster. I like his input and insights on the footballing front. This one was too funny though. Throwing shade at other posters for rightly claiming a penalty we should have had. I mean, at least take a moment to be sure.

 

[stevenqoz]

Will start, as many others have, with the statement that I believe Poch is one of our best coaches ever. That said, he is not infallible and was caught out against the scousers. Formations / systems of play ought to revolve around what players you have available and what suits those players. Only in the longer run is it possible to absolutely build a squad to play with a default style. Yesterday Poch seemed to worry too much about Liverpool and what they might do. Missing Lloris and Dele thru injury was a blow but not so much to force the response and team that emerged. In this game the diamond midfield we seemed to adopt took away too much of our good stuff without giving the solidity it was supposed to. Both Dier and Winks looked uncomfortable in the their roles while Dembele looked shagged after 30 minutes. I would have prefered three at the back against Liverpool....Sanchez being very unfortunate to miss out....this situation needed his pace. While in the game Liverpool didn't look special they might also scored five! Our unforced errors were hard to comprehend from a side who usually keeps possession for fun. Want to move on from this.....International breaks are the bain of our lives

 

[ohtottenham!]

Will start, as many others have, with the statement that I believe Poch is one of our best coaches ever. That said, he is not infallible and was caught out against the scousers. Formations / systems of play ought to revolve around what players you have available and what suits those players. Only in the longer run is it possible to absolutely build a squad to play with a default style. Yesterday Poch seemed to worry too much about Liverpool and what they might do. Missing Lloris and Dele thru injury was a blow but not so much to force the response and team that emerged. In this game the diamond midfield we seemed to adopt took away too much of our good stuff without giving the solidity it was supposed to. Both Dier and Winks looked uncomfortable in the their roles while Dembele looked shagged after 30 minutes. I would have prefered three at the back against Liverpool....Sanchez being very unfortunate to miss out....this situation needed his pace. While in the game Liverpool didn't look special they might also scored five! Our unforced errors were hard to comprehend from a side who usually keeps possession for fun. Want to move on from this.....International breaks are the bain of our lives

I think the state of our CMs dictated Poch’s set up and approach. Fitness/game fitness, fatigue, form…read Winks, Wanyama, Dembele, Dier. Each fall in one or more of those problem categories right now.

I agree a back three with Sanchez would have been better, but still that would have meant we would have been even weaker and out-manned in CM given the above-mentioned issues.

We all can see that Kane needs a big rest! There’s no mobility, energy, thrust or physicality in his play right now. I think a prime Kane has no problem playing with Moura upfront. Kane would dictate the movement of the front line and his spacing and positioning re Moura or anyone else he’s playing with. He doesn’t have the initiative to do that right now because that energy’s missing in his own play.

We’re experiencing squad issues in key areas…CM, and credible striker rotation for Kane in particular. Poch has his work cut out…tough job!

As a result, think we made Liverpool, who deserved their win, look much better than they are. Glad we weren’t playing Man City yesterday!

 

[parj]

This is such a key point. I run a business where we employ 150 professionals. Each year we recruit anything between 4 to 6 new talent. Not necessarily looking for an immediate impact by all. Around our office there’s a buzz, an intrigue, a genuine feeling that the business never stands still. We’re all excited about the new faces and characters because each are quite different and bring something new to the table and the general dynamic. I’m not Levy. I’m not running our beloved team. But the apathy is what happens. It’s stems from the top. The communication from Levy and Board is arrogant. And Poch is stuck in the middle.

Totally agree with the impact of new people but would you pay premium price for sometime average? Can you imagine if we signed Andre Gomes for €50m and then fans give him the Sissoko treatment. Don't forget, as an employer you didn't have to pay someone to take that person, you only paid the agent fee, if you used a recruiter.

We can just promote from the youth team if it's the impact we looking for but players don't really respond to that

 

[spursfan77]

The papers are all carrying photos of Jan with his finger in Gok Wan’s eye. He’s looking the other way so doubt he meant to do it but knowing our luck it will get looked at.

 

[Danners9]

The papers are all carrying photos of Jan with his finger in Gok Wan’s eye. He’s looking the other way so doubt he meant to do it but knowing our luck it will get looked at.

Incidents look far worse when you slow them down and capture a single still. I didn't think there much to it at the time.

 

[mattdefoe]

That performance was the performance of a weak mentality . It’s like the player knew how tired they were , they’d read the press about Liverpool being favourites and fresher.

We needed a Jose Mourinho type performance today, grind it out .

Harry didn’t even have a shot , he’s not even engineering chances like he used to .

Disappointed and I feel more so for all of our season ticket holders to

 

[Deleted member 27995]

What??! Really!! Do you not actually know what you were arguing? @doctor stefan Freud proffered the opinion that this summer's lack of investment in the squad (specifically, "not strengthening our weakest area") has adversely affected performances to date and you've made several posts challenging that assertion. Now, to précis those arguments over multiple pages: @doctor stefan Freud was "attacking" the transfer policy that fostered this current situation and you were "disagreeing" with him. It's what prompted him to say: "Keep claiming that not strengthening our weakest position hasn’t adversely affected Poch and the squad". Hope that helps. Thanks for waiting ?

Ah so that's me "defending the transfer window" is it? Keep going John!

 

[shelfboy68]

Totally agree with the impact of new people but would you pay premium price for sometime average? Can you imagine if we signed Andre Gomes for €50m and then fans give him the Sissoko treatment. Don't forget, as an employer you didn't have to pay someone to take that person, you only paid the agent fee, if you used a recruiter.

We can just promote from the youth team if it's the impact we looking for but players don't really respond to that

This summer saw clubs like west ham and Fulham to name a couple who spent big although hammers are yet to get going, I think it shows that the days of levy trying to find a bargain and getting a stiffy over it are gone.
You either pay the money for what your after or go without this summer fiasco with grealish showed exactly to the rest of the premier league that we refused to compete and will suffer those consequences as a result of a short sighted view.