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Tottenham vs Liverpool: Match Thread

jesh

Member
Oct 14, 2013
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Lamela wasn't the worst of the bunch, in fact as of now I'm far more critical of Eriksen to be honest. My main gripe with Lamela is that a lot of his play is risky and 50/50. What I mean by that is that he doesn't quite have the right balance of trying something a bit adventurous and just keeping hold of the ball. I'm never convinced when he kind of comes to halt and tries a few step overs following with an attempt to go past his marker, a lot of the time it ends in him losing the ball.

He does seem to be the only bright and creative spark in our team at the minute though.
He seems to have the early c.ronaldo vibe. I feel he's trying too hard to get past opponents. On the positive side, his pressing and determination is really good. Probably needs to have like minded players around him so that they can read his runs and passes.
 

SpursDave88

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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One particular feature of the game, was that every Liverpool player seemed to be half a yard quicker. So much for Poch's fabled fitness regime.
 

Toela65

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2011
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Apparently we were Rogers' first choice.

No Rodger's was Levy's first choice and BR was interested when it looked like HR was off to England. Then Arry missing out on England killed the deal.

FSG then unexpectedly fired Teflon Kenny Dalglish and the rest is history.

The reason BR is Liverpool's Manager now is because Redknapp didn't get the England job and by the time 'Arry was out the door, BR had given his word to FSG he'd take the job and knocked back Levy when approached.

He has since went public (during the AVB/Tactics Tim fiasco) admitting he turned down Spurs job because Levy is too trigger happy, but this is spin because he would've taken the Spurs job really if he didn't have an alternative.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
17,094
22,286
No Rodger's was Levy's first choice and BR was interested when it looked like HR was off to England. Then Arry missing out on England killed the deal.

FSG then unexpectedly fired Teflon Kenny Dalglish and the rest is history.

The reason BR is Liverpool's Manager now is because Redknapp didn't get the England job and by the time 'Arry was out the door, BR had given his word to FSG he'd take the job and knocked back Levy when approached.

He has since went public (during the AVB/Tactics Tim fiasco) admitting he turned down Spurs job because Levy is too trigger happy, but this is spin because he would've taken the Spurs job really if he didn't have an alternative.

Are you saying the real reason he took over Liverpool was because he'd already enrolled his daughter in the local primary school?
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
So I just watched the game off of recording as I was in Spain over the last weekend.

I don't see how people can say we were poor. Obviously not a finished product but some wonderful elements in the game. Kaboul a bit worrying, not that it matters with Fazio coming in. Bentaleb a bit quiet, not that it matters with Stambouli now in. I take far more positives from that match than almost every other here (based on comments).
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
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22,286
So I just watched the game off of recording as I was in Spain over the last weekend.

I don't see how people can say we were poor. Obviously not a finished product but some wonderful elements in the game. Kaboul a bit worrying, not that it matters with Fazio coming in. Bentaleb a bit quiet, not that it matters with Stambouli now in. I take far more positives from that match than almost every other here (based on comments).

It did finish 3-0 right...?
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
It did finish 3-0 right...?

It did. But 2 goals from individual error (Sterling run should have been tracked) and a penalty aren't things I would worry about a great deal. Certainly not when all players involved will be replaced this time next month.

I was focused on the press, quick turn over and attacks, putting wide men on 1 vs 1 chances. Adebayor attempted flick, Chadli shot. These are things that will come off with time.

They were no doubt a better side, but I have been reading comments about 'every player being poor' and I simply cannot agree with that.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
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It did. But 2 goals from individual error (Sterling run should have been tracked) and a penalty aren't things I would worry about a great deal. Certainly not when all players involved will be replaced this time next month.

I was focused on the press, quick turn over and attacks, putting wide men on 1 vs 1 chances. Adebayor attempted flick, Chadli shot. These are things that will come off with time.

They were no doubt a better side, but I have been reading comments about 'every player being poor' and I simply cannot agree with that.

What about our players mislaying passes of no more than 6 yards and the 3 or 4 easy chances that Balotelli/Sterling missed? It's easy to watch a game and see what you want to see.
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
What about our players mislaying passes of no more than 6 yards and the 3 or 4 easy chances that Balotelli/Sterling missed? It's easy to watch a game and see what you want to see.

Those are problems I see remedied with time and simple symptoms of being the third league game in a new system. Short of the early Ballotelli header (which required a wonderful save), most of their chances came from breaks after silly mistakes in midfield (or Kaboul sillyness). These mistakes will happen less often as we adapt.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Jan 7, 2009
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Those are problems I see remedied with time and simple symptoms of being the third league game in a new system. Short of the early Ballotelli header (which required a wonderful save), most of their chances came from breaks after silly mistakes in midfield (or Kaboul sillyness). These mistakes will happen less often as we adapt.

Yes. But in the grand scheme of things regardless of that we're talking about this game in particular, everything you've just said points to a poor performance no? Silly mistakes in midfield/Kaboul etc, I agree and hope they will be remedied but there's also no harm in calling a spade a spade and saying we were rubbish.
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
Yes. But in the grand scheme of things regardless of that we're talking about this game in particular, everything you've just said points to a poor performance no? Silly mistakes in midfield/Kaboul etc, I agree and hope they will be remedied but there's also no harm in calling a spade a spade and saying we were rubbish.

I originally said, "Obviously not a finished product but some wonderful elements in the game". I'm not saying we did everything right and admit there were mistakes and they were the better team. But in my opinion there are a slew of positives to build on and the signs from a team playing their third league game under a new manager were positive.

EDIT: My overarching point would be that there are positives to build on. Last season we came out of these games with no result, no confidence and nothing to build from.
 

Syn_13

Fly On, Little Wing
Jul 17, 2008
14,851
20,659
Those are problems I see remedied with time and simple symptoms of being the third league game in a new system. Short of the early Ballotelli header (which required a wonderful save), most of their chances came from breaks after silly mistakes in midfield (or Kaboul sillyness). These mistakes will happen less often as we adapt.

I bloody hope so. Individual errors cost us dearly last season and I would like to see it stamped out. I'm encouraged by the fact that we make a lot more forward passes now (that may sound silly but it really we couldn't pass forward for shit) and create better chances. I'm concerned that we don't take those chances and still allow individuals errors to creep into our game. Teams at the top are there because no matter how few chances they get, they make them count, and because they make less individual errors.

It's still early days. As I said, I'm encouraged but I'm still wary.
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
I bloody hope so. Individual errors cost us dearly last season and I would like to see it stamped out. I'm encouraged by the fact that we make a lot more forward passes now (that may sound silly but it really we couldn't pass forward for shit) and create better chances. I'm concerned that we don't take those chances and still allow individuals errors to creep into our game. Teams at the top are there because no matter how few chances they get, they make them count, and because they make less individual errors.

It's still early days. As I said, I'm encouraged but I'm still wary.

There is a stat flying around that puts spurs as the team with the highest goals from individual errors in Europe, not good. I can only imagine this is why the backline has been revamped (Vorm, Davies, Dier, Fazio, Yedlin and Stambouli). Simply having a fit LB will see Vertonghen and Capoue starting in their favoured positions, an issue which I believe was critical in AVB's downfall.

Poch loves to crowd the midfield and force the opponents onto the flanks (which he sees as less dangerous), he has brought in a CB/DM pair that are very confident on the ball (meaning less turnovers), this should lead to less mistakes in dangerous areas.

Regarding taking chances, it's frustrating that we didn't pull the trigger against a weakened Liverpool backline.
 

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2013
3,363
6,377
Those are problems I see remedied with time and simple symptoms of being the third league game in a new system. Short of the early Ballotelli header (which required a wonderful save), most of their chances came from breaks after silly mistakes in midfield (or Kaboul sillyness). These mistakes will happen less often as we adapt.

Didn't quite work out like that last season, did it? What I saw on Sunday was just more of the same crap. We have a poor squad that looks too weak for the top four, goal shy and too easy to open up at the back. Men against boys all over again.

And just where is this new system we are playing? Still looks like the same dodgy back four, still looks like the same weak midfield with no real pace or aggression, and still looks like we are playing a loan striker who can't play the position (whichever one of our three we pick).

We will continue not to score and ship threes and fours against the big boys. Another transfer window closes and another opportunity to fix things passes.
 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
Didn't quite work out like that last season, did it? What I saw on Sunday was just more of the same crap. We have a poor squad that looks too weak for the top four, goal shy and too easy to open up at the back. Men against boys all over again.

And just where is this new system we are playing? Still looks like the same dodgy back four, still looks like the same weak midfield with no real pace or aggression, and still looks like we are playing a loan striker who can't play the position (whichever one of our three we pick).

We will continue not to score and ship threes and fours against the big boys. Another transfer window closes and another opportunity to fix things passes.

It didn't work like that last season due to a lack of defensive depth and a managerial change halfway through (to one who didn't believe in defending from midfield), which has been addressed. We are talking Vertonghen out of position and unhappy, Capoue and Dawson at centre back with a fresh youngster in front of them. None of those things exist anymore.

I agree our squad isn't good enough for top 4, but I am not really expecting it granted the opposition. I disagree with the rest of your comment (about not strengthening in the window and not seeing the new system in progress).
 

Ironskullll

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2010
1,378
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It didn't work like that last season due to a lack of defensive depth and a managerial change halfway through (to one who didn't believe in defending from midfield), which has been addressed. We are talking Vertonghen out of position and unhappy, Capoue and Dawson at centre back with a fresh youngster in front of them. None of those things exist anymore.

I agree our squad isn't good enough for top 4, but I am not really expecting it granted the opposition. I disagree with the rest of your comment (about not strengthening in the window and not seeing the new system in progress).

I find it all baffling myself. There are so many opinions about this, that and the other, but I still find it baffling. We talk of "systems" as if pressing from the front is a system in itself. Is it? Whether it is or isn't, I grant that it's a style of play, but does that mean it has to be employed in every game? Whatever happened to pragmatism and setting up your team to beat what's in front of them. Stoke yielded something like 75% possession yet still beat City. If Liverpool are miles better than Spurs does that mean they'll beat QPR 7-0? Why would you press a team such as Liverpool that way, surely that's inviting exactly what happened? Or is it just that this is the way that modern football is going? More knockouts; more clear cut 3 pointers and fewer draws. We've seen so many more surprising results than we ever used to in the past few years; maybe the days of pragatism are gone and we have to accept there will be fewer draws and more one-sided games as teams open up against each other.
 

SpursManChris

Well-Known Member
May 15, 2007
5,347
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The ball is ahead of the spot!

pen.jpg

 

jayesar

Member
Jun 10, 2013
51
86
I find it all baffling myself. There are so many opinions about this, that and the other, but I still find it baffling. We talk of "systems" as if pressing from the front is a system in itself. Is it? Whether it is or isn't, I grant that it's a style of play, but does that mean it has to be employed in every game? Whatever happened to pragmatism and setting up your team to beat what's in front of them. Stoke yielded something like 75% possession yet still beat City. If Liverpool are miles better than Spurs does that mean they'll beat QPR 7-0? Why would you press a team such as Liverpool that way, surely that's inviting exactly what happened? Or is it just that this is the way that modern football is going? More knockouts; more clear cut 3 pointers and fewer draws. We've seen so many more surprising results than we ever used to in the past few years; maybe the days of pragatism are gone and we have to accept there will be fewer draws and more one-sided games as teams open up against each other.

I would argue that pressing from the front is a symptom of the system. The managers philosophy revolves around dispossessing the opponent high up the pitch and transitioning quickly onto attack, any facet of play that adds to this is part of the tactical system (imo).

The reason for pressing Liverpool high is three-fold. To smother the ball before it gets to the likes of Sturridge, Balo and Sterling (who punish us whenever they get the ball), to force mistakes from a shaky backline (including Gerrard) and because it was a strategy that proved fruitful for Southampton in the same fixture last year.

I think the first goal hurt us a lot from a tactical position, Liverpool were then free to sit a little deeper and hit on the counter. Without the early goal they would have been forced to come at us for longer which would have opened them up a bit at the back, unfortunately we were the ones forced to press on which aided them. The first EL qualifier match was the first time MoPo won a game when trailing with an English team, it shows a flaw in his system (teams that get a goal then sit back and counter are kryptonite, likely also explains how he got good results against big teams as they wouldn't have sat deep against him).

Regarding modern football heading towards more blow outs, I think the Liverpool situation is common (happened to us half a decade ago). Most teams that leap from midtable to top table are taking advantage of opponentsthat don't really fear them (and thus play a little too far forward, inviting goals). Last season will see plenty of teams treat Liverpool with more respect and attempt to park the bus against them like they would City or Chelsea.
 

Ironskullll

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2010
1,378
1,894
I would argue that pressing from the front is a symptom of the system. The managers philosophy revolves around dispossessing the opponent high up the pitch and transitioning quickly onto attack, any facet of play that adds to this is part of the tactical system (imo).

The reason for pressing Liverpool high is three-fold. To smother the ball before it gets to the likes of Sturridge, Balo and Sterling (who punish us whenever they get the ball), to force mistakes from a shaky backline (including Gerrard) and because it was a strategy that proved fruitful for Southampton in the same fixture last year.

I think the first goal hurt us a lot from a tactical position, Liverpool were then free to sit a little deeper and hit on the counter. Without the early goal they would have been forced to come at us for longer which would have opened them up a bit at the back, unfortunately we were the ones forced to press on which aided them. The first EL qualifier match was the first time MoPo won a game when trailing with an English team, it shows a flaw in his system (teams that get a goal then sit back and counter are kryptonite, likely also explains how he got good results against big teams as they wouldn't have sat deep against him).

Regarding modern football heading towards more blow outs, I think the Liverpool situation is common (happened to us half a decade ago). Most teams that leap from midtable to top table are taking advantage of opponentsthat don't really fear them (and thus play a little too far forward, inviting goals). Last season will see plenty of teams treat Liverpool with more respect and attempt to park the bus against them like they would City or Chelsea.
Lots of good points. Your very last point is the one that nags at me most and is one of the key reasons for my discomfort though. The so-called lesser teams, with inferior resources and managers appear willing to vary their tactics and park the bus as and when necessary. By slugging it out with Liverpool we walked right onto their punches. Oh for a bit more guile in terms of how the team is set up in the first place. Does that take us back to the "Plan B, Plan C etc" type of argument we used to have with TS? I don't know, still confused by it all! :)
 

DiscoD1882

SC Supporter
Mar 27, 2006
6,934
14,669
So I just watched the game off of recording as I was in Spain over the last weekend.

I don't see how people can say we were poor. Obviously not a finished product but some wonderful elements in the game. Kaboul a bit worrying, not that it matters with Fazio coming in. Bentaleb a bit quiet, not that it matters with Stambouli now in. I take far more positives from that match than almost every other here (based on comments).
i missed it as well so i will do the same. and see if the vitriol on here is warranted or as per ususal just in the moment spouting of angry crap.
 

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2013
3,363
6,377
Fact is we have three forwards that won't score with any kind of regularity, a midfield that lacks bite and power, and a back four that's prone to chuck the towel in and stop defending. Maybe the new signings will help, but the are hardly top drawer. Another season where we will finish 7th or 8th and no higher.
 
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