Tottenham Vs QPR: Match Thread

[davidmatzdorf]

If he didn't know about capoue, then he was not doing his job properly.

Have you not read what I have written twice in this thread? I'll write it a third time. Sherwood's comment was not about Capoue. It was a pop at AVB for excluding him from first team training, which he plainly resented. The reason he was so unfamiliar with Capoue's style that he picked Bentaleb instead was that Sherwood had not been permitted to watch Capoue train. He was thus not being permitted to do his job properly. That was his point.

You and others are falling in with another one of those rigid internet mob-sentiment reactions where everything Sherwood ever said or thought has to be twisted around to make him seem like a malicious berk, i.e., to fit in with the caricature of Sherwood that has become the acceptable version of history.

I'm not like that. My memory doesn't work like most people's. I remember what was said (or what I saw) and why - and then I don't get swayed by subsequent events or internet spin.

The other day I posted something critical of AVB and someone went off on one about me being an 'AVB-hater' or something of that nature. Now I'm posting something that isn't a knee-jerk expression fo scorn at Sherwood and I'm bound to be accused of being a 'Sherwood-lover'.

I don't work like that. I report what I see (or saw) and hear (or heard). I don't do heroes and villains, I just criticise all of our managers when they do something stupid and laud them when they excel.

In this case, Sherwood is being reported as having ostracised Capoue. That is not what happened. He picked Bentaleb because he had not been permitted to watch Capoue and knew that Bentaleb, from his youth squad, could do the necessary job. He said so, explicitly, at the time. Had Bentaleb failed, then I cannot tell you whether he would have selected Capoue. I suspect not, because I think he got a [false, judging by this season's evidence] impression that Capoue did not train vigorously - there was a plausible rumour to that effect.

But the obvious reason why Capoue spent the rest of the season on the sidelines was because Sherwood had promoted Bentaleb, who did well, following which Sherwood was keen to take credit for his protegé and continued to select him until Bentaleb demonstrated that, whilst he was fine against weaker teams, he couldn't cope with top-5 opposition. Then Bentaleb got benched.

 

[Mr Pink]

They had very similar intent in the way they set up Spurs' teams, in my opinion. However one never got things going, the other... too early to say but had a good start yesterday and the evidence of how Southampton played suggests things could be different.

I think the difference is that AVB had the grand overall plan of how we would play, but as I have said before I can only conclude that he didn't understand the little intricacies that make up the style of play, given the total failure at some of the basic functions of our play, and so this led to stunted play. Poch on the other hand seems to understand the way he wants his team to play down to the micro-level, such as where they stand at goal kicks as one example out of a million, and can get this across to the players and 'join the dots' tactically. The difference between a good tactician, and a not so good one... to put it in a simple sentence.

Neville just highlighted the difference between how we started games last season as opposed to how we did on Sunday....contrast was stark obviously.

Neville saying one of the main signs and differences is the attitude to winning the ball back. We're off like lightening against QPR, from the get go...just like you saw Southampton start games last season.

That was in the context of looking for similar signs.

Early days and all though.

 

[C0YS]

@Sarsipius - I hear you, but you make it sound like the dullest match under AVB was somehow his ultimate desire, leaving him completely brimming with satisfaction. If anything Poch is just showing what AVB is perfectly capable of, once the players had settled, got familiar with a system and the manager had the backing of the board with no mutinous assholes going over his head. Ours was a long term project and this instant success crap in light of drastic changes just doesn't happen in reality.

This is precisely why I was thrilled at Poch's appointment. As far as I'm concerned, we've got our AVB back. To those who wanted to give Sherwood another season... well, I rest my case. Our long term stability was delayed by a year, so be it. I'm just glad Sherwood didn't do too much damage to our team in the interim.

Poch could of implemented something at the very least resembling his vision if he was still at the club, AVB had a year and a half in which we appeared to be regressing, struggling to score and not learning from any of our mistakes.

The thing with AVB is I never so even an little bit of improvement or implementation of a style. I just saw football without seemingly any sort of plan progressively get worse. The truth is Sherwood had a better season than AVB last year, both statistically and stylistically. Under Sherwood we at least could to score goals. I am not saying Sherwood was good, I am saying AVB was worse. I think people really have forgot how terrible we were under AVB in the first half of the season and while I wish him luck I'd be surprised if he does anything exceptional at St. Petersburg.

 

[Ledley's Right Foot]

Have you not read what I have written twice in this thread? I'll write it a third time. Sherwood's comment was not about Capoue. It was a pop at AVB for excluding him from first team training, which he plainly resented. The reason he was so unfamiliar with Capoue's style that he picked Bentaleb instead was that Sherwood had not been permitted to watch Capoue train. He was thus not being permitted to do his job properly. That was his point.

You and others are falling in with another one of those rigid internet mob-sentiment reactions where everything Sherwood ever said or thought has to be twisted around to make him seem like a malicious berk, i.e., to fit in with the caricature of Sherwood that has become the acceptable version of history.

I'm not like that. My memory doesn't work like most people's. I remember what was said (or what I saw) and why - and then I don't get swayed by subsequent events or internet spin.

The other day I posted something critical of AVB and someone went off on one about me being an 'AVB-hater' or something of that nature. Now I'm posting something that isn't a knee-jerk expression fo scorn at Sherwood and I'm bound to be accused of being a 'Sherwood-lover'.

I don't work like that. I report what I see (or saw) and hear (or heard). I don't do heroes and villains, I just criticise all of our managers when they do something stupid and laud them when they excel.

In this case, Sherwood is being reported as having ostracised Capoue. That is not what happened. He picked Bentaleb because he had not been permitted to watch Capoue and knew that Bentaleb, from his youth squad, could do the necessary job. He said so, explicitly, at the time. Had Bentaleb failed, then I cannot tell you whether he would have selected Capoue. I suspect not, because I think he got a [false, judging by this season's evidence] impression that Capoue did not train vigorously - there was a plausible rumour to that effect.

But the obvious reason why Capoue spent the rest of the season on the sidelines was because Sherwood had promoted Bentaleb, who did well, following which Sherwood was keen to take credit for his protegé and continued to select him until Bentaleb demonstrated that, whilst he was fine against weaker teams, he couldn't cope with top-5 opposition. Then Bentaleb got benched.

I don't think you're a avb hater or Sherwood lover, I just disagree . I think you're being generous with your interpretation of what Sherwood said, and fair play to you. I on the other hand felt his words would not inspire confidence. In fact, I thought they were seriously misguided. I too remember the interview and my overriding feeling was why? Why would you say that? It doesn't really matter what he intended, he publicly admitted he didn't know whether a member of his first team squad was as good as benteleb. You just don't say stuff like that. 1) it gives the impression you haven't done your homework. 2) the player in question will think you don't rate him (which is exactly what capoue came out in the press to say). 3) it makes you sound snide towards avb - which again, you don't really want your players to think you're snide. I admire your generosity but, in this case, my opinion is the generosity is misplaced.

But, back to the game, what a difference having a manager the players want to work for has made.

 

[davidmatzdorf]

...he publicly admitted he didn't know whether a member of his first team squad was as good as bentaleb. You just don't say stuff like that. 1) it gives the impression you haven't done your homework. 2) the player in question will think you don't rate him (which is exactly what capoue came out in the press to say). 3) it makes you sound snide towards avb - which again, you don't really want your players to think you're snide...

But, back to the game, what a difference having a manager the players want to work for has made.

I certainly agree with these parts of your post.

Sherwood lacks experience and it showed in a succession of intemperate and ill-advised comments.

I got into a wrangle with someone here the other day who obstinately insisted that players (Bale especially) were just as enthusiastic in their comments about working with AVB & Sherwood as they have been about Pochettino. It's blatantly obvious that the 'great team-spirit' comments that proliferated udner Redknapp were pale and obligatory over the past two years and have now become heartfelt again. The difference in tone of voice and language used is just obvious. But not if someone has an investment in not-being-seen-to-have-been-wrong about AVB.

 

[CrazyHeart]

Poch could of implemented something at the very least resembling his vision if he was still at the club, AVB had a year and a half in which we appeared to be regressing, struggling to score and not learning from any of our mistakes.

The thing with AVB is I never so even an little bit of improvement or implementation of a style. I just saw football without seemingly any sort of plan progressively get worse. The truth is Sherwood had a better season than AVB last year, both statistically and stylistically. Under Sherwood we at least could to score goals. I am not saying Sherwood was good, I am saying AVB was worse. I think people really have forgot how terrible we were under AVB in the first half of the season and while I wish him luck I'd be surprised if he does anything exceptional at St. Petersburg.

At Zenit, AVB broke the club's record of back to back wins of any manager before shattering the record in Russian footballing history. We can disagree on our respective assessments of his time at Spurs.

 

[SpurSince57]

At Zenit, AVB broke the club's record of back to back wins of any manager before shattering the record in Russian footballing history. We can disagree on our respective assessments of his time at Spurs.

Under him, they won six games on the bounce from 24 March to 26 April. Under Spalletti, they had an eight-win sequence from 1 September to 26 October; this was part of a run which saw them undefeated between 26 July and 2 November, with 10 wins from 13.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2013–14_FC_Zenit_Saint_Petersburg_season

Always best to check one's facts, I find.

 

[hugrr]

 

[C0YS]

At Zenit, AVB broke the club's record of back to back wins of any manager before shattering the record in Russian footballing history. We can disagree on our respective assessments of his time at Spurs.

No he didn't, he broke the record for back to back wins by a new manager (do you really think 6 wins on the trot is the record ). Zenit had actually had actually won 8 on the trot earlier on in the season (and a 13 game unbeaten run).

AVB's run was against some pretty shoddy teams as well, only the game against Krosnodar could be considered a challenge. Zenit in the end lost the title by one point by drawing agaist Lokomotiv Moscow (not actually a terrible result, though Zenit are on paper much better) and losing against Dynamo Moscow in a 3-0 game (a good but not title competing team).

AVB's record at Zenit against the top half of the table reads W2 D1 L1, which is not particularly impressive, though it is a too small sample to really make much of it

So far AVB this season has won the first 5 games in the league, though all of those teams currently make the bottom 5 and have collectively won an impressive 2 games out of 25.

In Europe Zenit have not found it easy but are currently well placed to make the CL group stages. They started the CL qualification rounds with a 1-0 loss to Limassol and in the second game they were facing an unlikely extra time clash until Danny scored at the 88th minute (It was 1-0 at this time but ended 3-0 with a 90th minute penalty being the other one). Zenit though did beat Liege in the away tie of the champions league play offs and thus are in a very good position to qualify.

All in all AVB has not done too badly at Zenit yet he hasn't yet done particularly well either. The jury is still out.

 

[CrazyHeart]

No he didn't, he broke the record for back to back wins by a new manager (do you really think 6 wins on the trot is the record ).

Missing the word 'new' was a typo on my part - but thanks for pointing it out and clarifying things.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

At Zenit, AVB broke the club's record of back to back wins of any manager before shattering the record in Russian footballing history. We can disagree on our respective assessments of his time at Spurs.

Zenit, that bastion of all things football................who'd have thought that such a great managerial talent is being wasted in the nether-reaches of soccerdom?

 

[Gassin's finest]

Very impressive stuff from us on Sunday. I've only seen the highlights, so I don't have a full picture of our overall performance, but I can say that despite: a) it was only the second league game of the season, and b) QPR were woeful... there are early signs of MP's new intensive training and tactical approaches having their impact on our young attacking players.

Eriksen, Chadli, and of course Lamela all thrived behind Adebayor, who himself linked excellently with all three. We have here a potentially superb and malleable front 4, able to play in any attacking position and support each other. Capoue and Bentaleb make a promising deep midfield pairing as well, an ideal combination of physical destroyer and considered playmaker. I was unimpressed with Chadli all last season, but he looked a different player on Sunday; Actually utilising his size and pace in the right manner. You could argue that QPR put practically no pressure on the ball for the large majority of the game, and you'd be right. But for once we took advantage of that and made it count.

We are typically lax in these situation, with a habit of being complacent and not pressing on. Here we showed ruthlessness to score goals, which as we know all counts towards the business end of the season. Better teams will visit WHL this year, starting with Liverpool this Sunday bringing unpredictable talents like Balotelli up against our defence. Which it should be noted seemed to struggle a little once QPR woke up towards the end of the game. Vertonghen is a welcome return, and Dier continues to impress (despite being likely to be replaced at RB when Walker returns).

Most of all though it's just great to see us play with a drive, determination and most of all enjoyment that has been missing for a year now. Am now doubly looking forward to my double bill of trips to the Lane this week.

COYS

 

[Spurs_Bear]

Missing the word 'new' was a typo on my part - but thanks for pointing it out and clarifying things.

Ha, didn't Sherwood do the same thing with us!?

 

[Spurs_Bear]

They had very similar intent in the way they set up Spurs' teams, in my opinion. However one never got things going, the other... too early to say but had a good start yesterday and the evidence of how Southampton played suggests things could be different.

I think the difference is that AVB had the grand overall plan of how we would play, but as I have said before I can only conclude that he didn't understand the little intricacies that make up the style of play, given the total failure at some of the basic functions of our play, and so this led to stunted play. Poch on the other hand seems to understand the way he wants his team to play down to the micro-level, such as where they stand at goal kicks as one example out of a million, and can get this across to the players and 'join the dots' tactically. The difference between a good tactician, and a not so good one... to put it in a simple sentence.

I agree to an extent, but even watching Porto when they beat all-comers in the league and then won the Europa, they didn't get anywhere near the fluidity we showed on Sunday.

 

[riggi]

Reading about an incident that happened on sunday at the lane (wont mention what) and came across this gem.

"As security personnel and then a policeman struggled to escort the fan from his seat, the unimpressed Spurs fans vented their disapproval by chanting “wanker” — a British pejorative roughly equivalent to the American “jerk-off” — and “Yid Army.”
Made me laugh anyway. Jerk off jerk off! The referees a jerk off!

 

[Scarlet57]

Starts at 26:10, Sky MNF last night, a few minutes talking about spurs.

http://cloudyvideos.com/lvx5tnu6rm2t

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

Can anyone link me a recording of the whole match?
Highlights are not enough!!

Here you are http://sumo.tv2.no/sport/fotball/barclays-premier-league/tottenham-qpr-834191.html

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

Back from the trip to London and all my wishes fulfilled. Nice attacking play, goals, three points and London at its best. My wife took some lovely pictures at the match and managed to catch three of the goals here are two of them.

 

[Norwegian Spurs fan]

As far as I'm concerned there is an upgrade compared to last season at Spurs, even it is early days, on the tempo, we are moving the ball faster, aggressive pressing, Poch has addressed our weakness in defense,players show character and positivity. Poch seems calm and is stating the obvious but though important thing about hard work and what a pleasing way to start the new season against West ham and QPR

 

[spurs9]

Finally got a chance to watch the game last night.

First off, Lamela played well but lost the ball too many times, but at least he is trying to play those probing balls or through balls, where as last year in similar situations players would just pass to the player next to them. He will be some player when he polishes up on his final ball and imporves his decision making in and around the box. I thought Capoue, Verts, Dier and Rose all played better and, for me, Capoue would just nick MOM just ahead of Verts (he seemed to be everywhere).

For me the negatives were:
Kaboul's defending - his marking is very poor, he only ever seems to get within a couple of feet of the attacker and he is no longer quick enough to make up for it. Saying that I thought he did well when on the ball.

Bentaleb's passing - there were about 4-5 times were he sloppily gave the ball away trying to play a simple pass, which allowed QPR to counter, so we went from playing in their half to defending on the edge (or down the side) of our area. He did cover ground very well though, supporting who ever got the ball, filling in for players going forward and played some great attacking balls (Ade should have done better with Bentaleb's cross, which I thought was top notch). It's easy to forget he is just 19.


The positives have been done to death on here, so thought I would just do a couple that I hadn't seen:
Lamela & Soldado's strength - They have been criticised for being too weak but I think they have both improved. Their were a couple of times Lamela was running with the ball and a QPR player tried to barge him off it, but they just bounced off, which was great to see. Soldado showed good strength in holding off a defender, before flicking the ball on to Eriksen to continue his run onto.

Rose's first touch & control - I don't seem to have come across anyone praising this (apologies if I'm wrong) but the amount of times he chests/heads/controls the ball perfectly into his path when running down the line (or his first touch in general) was fantastic.

Lots of other things to be positive about, but most have been mentioned a lot.