VAR (Video Assistant Referee)

[Bus-Conductor]

It's exactly this. It's not working at all. They wanted it in to put an end to controversy but all it's doing is creating it. We've gone from one set of problems to another. Just drop the whole thing and accept that occasionally, referee's make mistakes.

What controversy? At worst, all you could say is, it's still not picking up 100% of things that a ref isn't picking up anyway. In general, it's working extremely well. It's flagged up some crucial decisions, it hasn't disrupted the games and as well as having a positive impact on games - like France and Sweden getting the points they wouldn't have got otherwise, or games getting goals they wouldn't have got - it's also having a positive impact on what players do, as they know diving, committing devious infractions (like snidey digs) and red card fouls is far more likely to be picked up.

It's still in it's infancy. There are loads of facets that can be smoothed out, and hopefully will, but there's been no controversy, except from English pundits because Kane didn't get his penalty. But I think they probably have a moratorium on corners of some sort, which at this stage is probably sensible.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Why not give it the full run of the game though? It makes far more sense than this current approach. So many more benefits of VAR in total control.

1) Much faster desisions.
2) Everything gets reviewed.
3) Cameras would increase to make it easier for them.

Don’t get me wrong I’d rather they just left the game alone but if everyone is so intent of 100% fair game, this solution would give you it. The game would suffer massively though.

I wouldn’t say I have been waiting in the wings for it to fail but I have no problem saying I don’t like the idea of VAR.

I'd be all for letting the VAR refs make more of the calls. But lets bare in mind the process is in it's infancy, it's got to evolve. I would imagine Ref's (and it's ref's who operate VAR) aren't quite ready to be seen to be relinquishing "full control" of games yet.

 

[Donki]

I'd be all for letting the VAR refs make more of the calls. But lets bare in mind the process is in it's infancy, it's got to evolve. I would imagine Ref's (and it's ref's who operate VAR) aren't quite ready to be seen to be relinquishing "full control" of games yet.

When/ if it does come in your going to see the game suffer IMO but only time will tell. You will find a much, much more defensive game. Contact will become less and less as players will be afraid of a mistimed tackle. How many red cards would Spurs have seen if VAR has total control?

 

[Shadydan]

When/ if it does come in your going to see the game suffer IMO but only time will tell. You will find a much, much more defensive game. Contact will become less and less as players will be afraid of a mistimed tackle. How many red cards would Spurs have seen if VAR has total control?

Surely you mean offensive seeing as defenders won't be able to get away with holding and shirt pulling, it's going to favour attackers more often than not as they'll have more space and potentially could see more pens.

 

[Pellshek]

The real refereeing story of this World Cup is the triumph of English-style refereeing.

Howard Webb in particular deserves enormous, perhaps even historical, credit for this. English refs' low tolerance for bullshit on the pitch, exemplified by Webb, and which saw him get so many high profile matches in his day, has become the template for refereeing best practice.

Above all, this means not blowing the whistle every time a player falls over, and allowing more physical contact in general. There has still been some conning of the ref going on, but refereeing in this WC clearly, clearly shows the influence of the English refereeing style over the last 10 or 15 years. FIFA's obvious admiration for Webb back in the day - and, latterly, for his heir Clattenberg - was almost certainly the genesis of this. And Webb of course was the product of the wider English system of coaching referees.

This is no small thing. In fact, it's enormous, and a huge credit is due to English football, the FA, and Webb personally.

 

[Donki]

Surely you mean offensive seeing as defenders won't be able to get away with holding and shirt pulling, it's going to favour attackers more often than not as they'll have more space and potentially could see more pens.

I mean tactically, teams sitting deep and trying to stifle the game.

 

[Archibald&Crooks]

I think I should point out I was talking about VAR in general, not just here at the World Cup where so far it hasn't been bad but then again the sample size is pretty small so far and they've arrived at a place with it where it's too important to have the fuck-ups. But they'll have them eventually.

 

[Shadydan]

I mean tactically, teams sitting deep and trying to stifle the game.

Can't see how it will make a difference personally, in fact teams that sit deep often deploy tactics of man marking players unfairly, if teams are going to sit deep then they'll inevitable invite more pressure on therefore more crosses and corners - we've seen it with the likes of West Brom where they are tugging away at the forwards shirts in the box and holding offensive players at corners, it's a strategy that those sort of teams deploy because they rarely defend zonally like Tunisia last night, it can only be a good thing.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

When/ if it does come in your going to see the game suffer IMO but only time will tell. You will find a much, much more defensive game. Contact will become less and less as players will be afraid of a mistimed tackle. How many red cards would Spurs have seen if VAR has total control?

It’s the reverse of this. Attacking play will be rewarded - as we have continually seen at this WC. Because defenders can’t get away with things they did. And as I said, and this has been born out in Italy and Germany this season I believe, it’s reducing other stuff, off the ball fouls/digs, diving and nasty fouls that would get reds not yellows, again, rewarding attacking play, because gradually players are/will realise that they will get caught in real time.

It will make better players, because it will reduce cheating, they will have to learn to defend and tackle better. And attacking/creative players will get better protection, and more reward.

 

[SlotBadger]

I’d happily fuck VAR in the bin tomorrow.

Why wouldn't you choose somewhere more romantic?

 

[gloriousbillynich]

At the moment, I'm against VAR. Especially if it's not going to be used correctly and consistently (as per the England Tunisia game). Right now, I feel it takes something from 'the moment', and slows the game down whereas prior to VAR, there was a general acceptance that some days your team gets the decision, other days it doesn't - frustation and elation in equal measure. A whole range of emotions taken out of the game, in my opinion.

That said, if it can be speeded up, and improved considerably, then ok. But as of now, I'm not a fan.

 

[SandroClegane]

At the moment, I'm against VAR. Especially if it's not going to be used correctly and consistently (as per the England Tunisia game). Right now, I feel it takes something from 'the moment', and slows the game down whereas prior to VAR, there was a general acceptance that some days your team gets the decision, other days it doesn't - frustation and elation in equal measure. A whole range of emotions taken out of the game, in my opinion.

That said, if it can be speeded up, and improved considerably, then ok. But as of now, I'm not a fan.

So what you're saying is you only watched the England match as it's been used pretty flawlessly in the other matches. Each review has taken minimal time and has generally been correct.

And why would you complain that it takes the emotion that you've been screwed by the ref out of the game?

 

[gloriousbillynich]

So what you're saying is you only watched the England match as it's been used pretty flawlessly in the other matches. Each review has taken minimal time and has generally been correct.

And why would you complain that it takes the emotion that you've been screwed by the ref out of the game?

Thanks for the passive aggressive response. Not appreciated.

And no, I didn't just say I've only watched the England games. I've watched most of the games. I stand by my comment, and as for the emotion thing, I like a bit of emotion in sport. You may not, that's up to you. But don't expect to change my mind with responses like that.

If you can't debate without being a dick, then don't debate. Peace out.

 

[Donki]

Can't see how it will make a difference personally, in fact teams that sit deep often deploy tactics of man marking players unfairly, if teams are going to sit deep then they'll inevitable invite more pressure on therefore more crosses and corners - we've seen it with the likes of West Brom where they are tugging away at the forwards shirts in the box and holding offensive players at corners, it's a strategy that those sort of teams deploy because they rarely defend zonally like Tunisia last night, it can only be a good thing.

It’s the reverse of this. Attacking play will be rewarded - as we have continually seen at this WC. Because defenders can’t get away with things they did. And as I said, and this has been born out in Italy and Germany this season I believe, it’s reducing other stuff, off the ball fouls/digs, diving and nasty fouls that would get reds not yellows, again, rewarding attacking play, because gradually players are/will realise that they will get caught in real time.

It will make better players, because it will reduce cheating, they will have to learn to defend and tackle better. And attacking/creative players will get better protection, and more reward.

When it comes to shirt grabbing and hands on at set pieces I don’t quite get what some people think should happen in this perfect world of no shirt grabbing or pushing. Are player supposed to bump into each other, I’ve played at a pretty shit level but just human instinct is to reach out to gain momentum or support. I don’t want a game of football where you can’t have some contact it’s a sterile tepid farce of an idea. At corners or free kicks there has to be jociling, if not you just stand there like a lemon, you can’t jump or try and gain an advantage, it’s bullshit.

 

[Donki]

What controversy? At worst, all you could say is, it's still not picking up 100% of things that a ref isn't picking up anyway. In general, it's working extremely well. It's flagged up some crucial decisions, it hasn't disrupted the games and as well as having a positive impact on games - like France and Sweden getting the points they wouldn't have got otherwise, or games getting goals they wouldn't have got - it's also having a positive impact on what players do, as they know diving, committing devious infractions (like snidey digs) and red card fouls is far more likely to be picked up.

It's still in it's infancy. There are loads of facets that can be smoothed out, and hopefully will, but there's been no controversy, except from English pundits because Kane didn't get his penalty. But I think they probably have a moratorium on corners of some sort, which at this stage is probably sensible.

Yes or no should Kane had of had at least one penalty? Your ability to separate your emotions from the game has astounded me for some time, and I don’t mean that in a dicky way, you just seem to show very little emotion at times, I’m genuinely curious.

 

[Donki]

So what you're saying is you only watched the England match as it's been used pretty flawlessly in the other matches. Each review has taken minimal time and has generally been correct.

And why would you complain that it takes the emotion that you've been screwed by the ref out of the game?

Your totally missing the point, if it works perfectly for some game and not for others that’s worse than a random refs mistake. It’s not a level random playing field.

 

[nailsy]

Because how then has VAR made the game fairer? I mean if it wasn’t in the game last night the ref probably wouldn’t have given the Tunisia pen and England would have won 1-0. As @Archibald&Crooks says VAR is becoming the story/news not the actual games. If you want VAR have them control the entire game, I wouldn’t be a huge fan, but at least it would be consistent and not so time consuming.

The ref didn't use var to give the penalty. It was his decision.

Why not give it the full run of the game though? It makes far more sense than this current approach. So many more benefits of VAR in total control.

1) Much faster desisions.
2) Everything gets reviewed.
3) Cameras would increase to make it easier for them.

Don’t get me wrong I’d rather they just left the game alone but if everyone is so intent of 100% fair game, this solution would give you it. The game would suffer massively though.

I wouldn’t say I have been waiting in the wings for it to fail but I have no problem saying I don’t like the idea of VAR.

How would giving var full control make things quicker? The on field ref literally makes instant decisions where as the var people have to review the incident several times before making up their minds. Most people who are against var say it takes too much time.

 

[Donki]

The ref didn't use var to give the penalty. It was his decision.



How would giving var full control make things quicker? The on field ref literally makes instant decisions where as the var people have to review the incident several times before making up their minds. Most people who are against var say it takes too much time.

If it was full VAR there would be more cameras and the refs would be reviewing them all during play, this whole BS of a on field ref reviewing a mass of video pitch side in 30 secomds is ludicrous. How can you not see this stifles proper on field refs? He is second guessing himself at every descision, he can’t see everything so in all honesty he should be asking for a review on anything anything he doesn’t see. I don’t wanna start a whole bitchfest over this but IMO it’s pretty clear what the problems are ATM.

 

[Shadydan]

When it comes to shirt grabbing and hands on at set pieces I don’t quite get what some people think should happen in this perfect world of no shirt grabbing or pushing. Are player supposed to bump into each other, I’ve played at a pretty shit level but just human instinct is to reach out to gain momentum or support. I don’t want a game of football where you can’t have some contact it’s a sterile tepid farce of an idea. At corners or free kicks there has to be jociling, if not you just stand there like a lemon, you can’t jump or try and gain an advantage, it’s bullshit.

Maybe because it's unfair and illegal...

It's a lazy and dishonest way to defend and to be honest if you're going to defend like that then you're always going to risk punishment, let's face it the reason why players do it because the ref only has a pair of eyes which is why they get away with it. Obviously there will be jostling and physical contact at corners and free kicks but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about grappling and shirt pulling i.e the challenges on Harry Kane against Tunisia which should have been called out, that's nothing to do with being part of the game, that's blatant cheating.

 

[Donki]

Maybe because it's unfair and illegal...

It's a lazy and dishonest way to defend and to be honest if you're going to defend like that then you're always going to risk punishment, let's face it the reason why players do it because the ref only has a pair of eyes which is why they get away with it. Obviously there will be jostling and physical contact at corners and free kicks but I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about grappling and shirt pulling i.e the challenges on Harry Kane against Tunisia which should have been called out, that's nothing to do with being part of the game, that's blatant cheating.

But it has been for a very long time, the assaults on Kane should have even picked up by the ref or linesman, VAR should not be needed for that.